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posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Xertious
 


i see how u relate to it. nice spotting. but i dont want to venture in that direction. i will say however. it is refreshing to see as i have been observing for a good long time the progression of man's understanding. and i must say.. when i see others post discussions in this direction showing that they are tantalizing and testing their individual thought and pressuring their belief systems to see at what point they would break.. it gives me hope that Humanity will figure it all out.. i have.. but telling ppl .. they dont believe me.. and showing ppl they always try to rationalise and logicize. i mean imagine someone made an apple appear out of thin air.. no not hidden under a cloth but on an open visible table.. everyone saw it wasnt there.. then *poof* and apple appears... simply put.. They Still Wont Believe! so the only recourse is to lead others to discover it themselves!

balance is key to all things in the universe.. balance left and right brain.. channel through centre(chakra system).. think perceive.. manifest! it's a hard and long journey and does require dedication.. but man can accomplish anything he devotes himself to for 10 years. kinda hard to do that when u have bills to pay and kids to feed huh?

I KNOW.. and they know too.. and they like nothing better than holding humanity back from finding the truth of their purpose and existence in this multiverse of a creation by an entity whose power cannot be matched and who is.. 'Anti-slavery'




posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by 0mage
 


1+(-1)=0

1-1=0

I'm not sure where you get your math from. Your comment about 0 being a gateway is interesting though.


from nature!

think in terms of positive and negative charge.. male is positive and female is negative.. it's the same thing ur addressing in this OP but a bit further down the line. ive completed the learning of 'true math' from nature...

take salt.. and water.. mix the two.. u still have salt and u still have water.. but u also have something new.. saltwater (saline solution).. noting in chemistry that the balance rule applies ALL THE WAY thru.. balancing positive and negative to reach a balanced equation. this is the entirety of the concept of the origination of understanding "The Holy Trinity"



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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Don't get what that has to do with infinity. Also, don't get what saltwater has to do with positive and negative.
Also also, you don't have salt and water anymore, you have a mixture of the two. You would need to go through some process to get them to be salt and water again.

Also, in chemistry isn't always about balance, unstable isotopes are a natural occurence and are used in chemistry.
edit on 15-8-2012 by Xertious because: added last bit



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by 0mage
 


But saying that the circumference of a circle with a radius of 3 meters is 6Pi IS a number. 6 * Pi represents a number that I cannot express on a piece of paper. Just because it isn't composed of numerical values doesn't make it any less of a real number. This is the basics of algebra. It is no different than saying that X = 2 + 3 * 8. Sure I could write 26, but I could also write X or even 2 + 3 * 8 to represent 26. They are all the same thing. With 6 * Pi, I cannot represent that as a numerical value, so you have to settle for it remaining as a mathematical expression of multiplication. I can tell you that 6Pi is close to 18.84, but like we previously stated that isn't the real answer.

I'm not sure where to begin on the rest of your post, you seem to be suggesting that math is the work of the devil. Do you not want to understand our world and the universe we reside in? To me that is the silliest thing I've ever read. I feel like I'm reading church doctrine from the dark ages. Math isn't evil. Math isn't good. Math just is. You put your numbers into the expression and you get an answer. You keep bringing up banks and the interest thing. Of course you aren't going to receive the same amount of interest from the bank by lending them money, banks are in it to make money. If everything was even, they'd go out of business because they wouldn't be able to pay their overhead. Again this has nothing to do with math, it is just the people in charge deciding what to do with the numbers.

Since you want to talk religious overtones, lets use this example: Someone paints a pentagram on the floor of some abandoned building to perform a satanic ritual. Do you say that the paint is evil? No it was just the tool used to create the evil.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Xertious
Don't get what that has to do with infinity. Also, don't get what saltwater has to do with positive and negative.
Also also, you don't have salt and water anymore, you have a mixture of the two. You would need to go through some process to get them to be salt and water again.

Also, in chemistry isn't always about balance, unstable isotopes are a natural occurence and are used in chemistry.
edit on 15-8-2012 by Xertious because: added last bit


yes.. but the salt nor the water has died! it still exists..

when you look at math it tells you 1-1=0 so the 'ones' kill off eachother and 'nothing' remains.. A VERY VERY bad concept and absolutely incorrect. that's exactly what it has to do with infinity.. as mentioned previous..

infinity = 0.
0 is the balance point in the seesaw (fulcrum). -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5
0 is also a gate to infinity.

a gate to another gate to another gate to another gate.. it never stops. basically.. u gotta start giving 0 more credit LOL. because between each gate is everything else that ISNT the gate.

Key (+1)
Lock (-1)
key + lock = Opens the gate/door/window


0 is the gate to infinity.. meaning.. if u move left or right.. up or down.. or choose to move in negative or positive numbers.. u lose infinity..

the fall of man attributed to the learning the knowledge of Good and Evil (or east and west or up and down).

going back to centre.. is the zero point and it is where infinity lives.. where you will have eternal life.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by 0mage
 


But saying that the circumference of a circle with a radius of 3 meters is 6Pi IS a number. 6 * Pi represents a number that I cannot express on a piece of paper. Just because it isn't composed of numerical values doesn't make it any less of a real number. This is the basics of algebra. It is no different than saying that X = 2 + 3 * 8. Sure I could write 26, but I could also write X or even 2 + 3 * 8 to represent 26. They are all the same thing. With 6 * Pi, I cannot represent that as a numerical value, so you have to settle for it remaining as a mathematical expression of multiplication. I can tell you that 6Pi is close to 18.84, but like we previously stated that isn't the real answer.

I'm not sure where to begin on the rest of your post, you seem to be suggesting that math is the work of the devil. Do you not want to understand our world and the universe we reside in? To me that is the silliest thing I've ever read. I feel like I'm reading church doctrine from the dark ages. Math isn't evil. Math isn't good. Math just is. You put your numbers into the expression and you get an answer. You keep bringing up banks and the interest thing. Of course you aren't going to receive the same amount of interest from the bank by lending them money, banks are in it to make money. If everything was even, they'd go out of business because they wouldn't be able to pay their overhead. Again this has nothing to do with math, it is just the people in charge deciding what to do with the numbers.

Since you want to talk religious overtones, lets use this example: Someone paints a pentagram on the floor of some abandoned building to perform a satanic ritual. Do you say that the paint is evil? No it was just the tool used to create the evil.


well.. perhaps ur right.. because it is thru math is how i was able to figure it all out. but u really really need to be able to escape boxes.. to be an escape artist.. to be absolutely rebelious to the idea of having limits imposed upon u to see outside the box of mathematics. but IT IS A BOX. and i know that it was built to contain us all as it's purpose. do not trust the numbers. take what they give u.. and RUN lol. i still felt the need to demonize it to some extent so that ppl will psychologically want to seek an escape. one would not want to escape if they did not even know they were in a prison

and i mean come on.. u insult me to lecture me on algebra
i need u to put 6pi into a computer and make it draw u a circle using that command ALONE! just admit it.. it cant be done.. and that is the original intent of my comment. infinity cannot be used in calculation unless if used in conjunction with the imagination.. and for that reason.. logic must recognize that it cannot stand on its own
edit on 15-8-2012 by 0mage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by 0mage
 


You are right about the computer thing, but there is more than one definition of a circle. I could just as easily define a circle with circumference 6Pi as an infinite amount of vectors going in all directions with magnitude of 3 meters originating at 1 point. However I will concede that a computer can only approximate this as well, since it could never draw an infinite amount of vectors (infinite loop) as well as never being able to draw a circle with exact circumference of 6Pi. This isn't a failing of math though, its a failing of the technology. The technology is too limited to correctly draw it. This doesn't mean that we can't utilize infinity in our calculations.

I don't want to leave this "box" that you suggest called math. It defines everything. If something is unexplained, it just means we haven't come up with the correct mathematical formulas/concepts to explain it. Math and as an extension science is always changing and being added to as we discover new things. Math is beautiful in this regard. If I go around saying that 1 + 1 = 3 then what does 2 + 2 equal? How about 1 - 1 for that matter? I feel that there are things beyond our understanding spiritually, but even those can eventually be explained using math and physical laws. For example, a ghost may just be an entity existing in a higher dimension then we do and since we are at the lower end, we don't experience the total thing. God may even be the same thing.
edit on 15-8-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by 0mage
 


You are right about the computer thing, but there is more than one definition of a circle. I could just as easily define a circle with circumference 6Pi as an infinite amount of vectors going in all directions with magnitude of 3 meters originating at 1 point. However I will concede that a computer can only approximate this as well, since it could never draw an infinite amount of vectors (infinite loop) as well as never being able to draw a circle with exact circumference of 6Pi. This isn't a failing of math though, its a failing of the technology. The technology is too limited to correctly draw it. This doesn't mean that we can't utilize infinity in our calculations.

I don't want to leave this "box" that you suggest called math. It defines everything. If something is unexplained, it just means we haven't come up with the correct mathematical formulas/concepts to explain it. Math and as an extension science is always changing and being added to as we discover new things. Math is beautiful in this regard. If I go around saying that 1 + 1 = 3 then what does 2 + 2 equal? How about 1 - 1 for that matter? I feel that there are things beyond our understanding spiritually, but even those can eventually be explained using math and physical laws. For example, a ghost may just be an entity existing in a higher dimension then we do and since we are at the lower end, we don't experience the total thing. God may even be the same thing.
edit on 15-8-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)


yes it is a flaw of the number system. u do know that the number systems have changed as history went by due to flaws which were observed and acknowledged as 'limiting' on progress? and u do recognize that it is the same number system that was used to create the computer itself. it means.. that NOWHERE EVER has man got the circumference of a circle right. there is no calculation a man can do to manually draw a perfect circle. and certainly not via this number system..

what you have to come to realize is the magnificence and Glory of our Supreme Creator for he is so amazing that words cannot describe. as much as we like to delude ourselves we are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay far behind in knowledge than the designer of this multiverse. simply put.. we will have to be able to create imagination in our robots which are currently LOGIC ONLY units. if u give them a letter they crash 'divide by zero'. meaning all computer systems function SOLELY on logic and nothing else. we cannot capture the imagination and place it in a box. and i know many are misled to believe that some day we will do this. who knows maybe we'll get really close.. but how will we then create an imagination from scratch? to create sentience itself?

first we must recognize logic cannot stand on it's own
next we will recognize that creativity is a more powerful force as logic can only utilize the building blocks creativity created. but logic cannot create anything itself!
we will have to acknowledge that the body and brain are simply robot shells.. it is then given sentience by the creator and designer of the multiverse (the one that can create life itself from scratch. the one that created energy itself which man cannot create nor destroy)

understand.. we are waaay out of our league seeking to understand through science. Number systems are training wheels.. (if u can supersede the box that is). and u dont have to go all the way to quantum physics to figure it out.. the numbers tell u. nature itself shouts it at u day by day. man cannot even create a leaf from scratch.

so you are playing this game on ps3.. you're viewing ur character on screen. he lives in an environment created by the programmer. the rules of the environment are as the programmer intended them to be.. thus the character is unable to break those rules. the character is IN A BOX. and well.. look at that character.. he wouldnt even move around the environment unless u willed him to move via the controlpad. he would stand there forever doing nothing.. because he is a robot.. maybe with a few automated reflex programming to fan away flies.

the real person is YOU.. holding the controlpad. you are not in the box. but u have a representation in the box u can manipulate as u wish.

now just transpose all that to reality replacing the character with urself. the real you is in another dimension.. remote controlling this body.. and that is what it is. u are in a box.

WHY do i call it a prison??
simple.. if u are in a box and u dont know u are in a box or u dont know where the exit is so u can leave and return at will.. then you are in prison.. no?



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by 0mage
 


Just because we don't understand something yet doesn't mean there won't conceivably come a time when we will. You talk about robots and their failings, but you see you are thinking about current technology and the way it is currently progressing. Have you ever heard of a biocomputer? I want to take this excerpt from the end of the wiki article:

Many examples of simple biocomputers have been designed, but the capabilities of these biocomputers are still largely premature in comparison to commercially available non-bio computers. However, there is definitely great potential in the capabilities that biocomputers may one day acquire. Evidence of the true potential of the computing capabilities of biocomputers exists in the most powerful, complex computational machine known to currently exist: the biocomputer that is the human brain. Certainly, there is plenty of room to improve in the realm of biocomputer computational ability; one may reasonably expect the science of biocomputers to advance greatly in the years to come.


You suggest that a robot can never determine infinity, but if we were to create a biocomputer similar to the human brain, I can see it as feasibly possible. You are right though, we have so much more to learn about the universe, but breaking away from math to learn it won't happen. Math is the answer, it will lead us to ultimate understanding of everything.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 

about ur biocomputers, ur still ignoring the fact that they require someone to drive them. they still need some form of sentient decisionmaking consciousness to do the duties it wishes to perform. a biocomputer robot will not automatically empathize when a woman drops all her files on the floor and help her pick them up. it must be told,, or preprogrammed to do so in such event.

ever searched for something for so long that when it gets placed under your nose u cant find it?

i am just demonizing math/logic to the point where it will no longer be considered or facilitated to be dominant. to where imagination and creativity are equal in regard. what im telling u is not that man wont achieve seemingly great things on his own thru logic and technology. what im telling u is how to actually find God. where Heaven is and how any man can go there. once u do.. u will understand and see it from my viewpoint.. all this technological stuff is really inferior and very false.

if u are stuck in a logical perception (PERCEPTION being the key word here) you will be bound to this reality. but if u get stuck in a imaginative perception then you will be bound to a delusional reality. so both of these are out of the question having one or the other dominant.

BUT.. if u balance both logic and creativity your perception gets centred. this allows you through the union of equality of opposites to access the true and hidden infinite world. and it is JUST AS REAL as this reality. It is heaven.. where the life forms are definitely sentient and know very well of man and his path here on earth.

u see it is OUR fault that we cant perceive them.. that we refuse to perceive our true self that sits on the other side. but the other side knows of us well as it's perception is not limited like ours.

when we are done.. there will be no athiests.. my point is.. God is not a theory and i can prove it.. if you will listen to the math and what it tells u.. follow it's instructions it tells u where to find God. AT THE CENTER! (zero point).

after that.. do u really need aeroplanes and motorcars if we know where to find God and speak to him just like calling up our friend down the street on the telephone? i am talking about willfully leaving the body and ascending into Heaven. hanging out with some angels.. then coming back to reality in time to go to work in this reality (or stay there permanently if u wish).

i cant prove this to you but this is what the math taught me.. and ive proven it to myself. Heaven is real.. and the Bible has alot more credibility than atheists may believe.. however poorly men and ministers have interpretted its words and misled their flock. the math is in there. and it tells u how to make ur way back home. I have been home and i know it is not an illusion!

let me close by saying..
Man will NEVER create sentience. he'll create apparent sentience, seemingly sentient, very convincing sentient.. but not sentient itself. we cant even create an atom.. only know how to split/destroy it. isnt that our natural logical talent.. Destruction! lol

but the thread can too easily go way too far off topic at this point. so ill rest my case at..

the reason math cannot grasp infinity, cannot draw a perfect circle itself, and cannot act or create true sentience as the human consciousness with any amount of compounding is simply because.. objects in this reality cannot utilize the gate(0/infinity). and it's a deadend street to think that we ever will. because for one.. we are not even here.. the real you.. is a being of etheric existence communicating through the mind to the body and manipulating it's actions via will. you are not your body! the soul can utilize the gate and pass through it.. the body or anything of this material realm.. cannot!

God is no myth for science to try and disprove..and my prophecy.. as it has always been remains

"the success of science lies in the discovery of its failure." (it's failure to prove God doesnt exist and it will eventually unify with spirituality to no longer act to fight against it.. but as one unit unto infinity)


then and only then will u get ur inter dimensional travel etc etc etc etc
edit on 15-8-2012 by 0mage because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-8-2012 by 0mage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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all of this "adding to infinity" is within the frameworks of "Concepts". Its all conceptual, mind based, imagination based, illusion based.

If we want to talk about reality .....if reality is infinite, then have a child and you've added to infinity.

Take a poop and you've transformed a part of infinity.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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cross referenced thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Xertious
Don't get what that has to do with infinity. Also, don't get what saltwater has to do with positive and negative.
Also also, you don't have salt and water anymore, you have a mixture of the two. You would need to go through some process to get them to be salt and water again.

Also, in chemistry isn't always about balance, unstable isotopes are a natural occurence and are used in chemistry.
edit on 15-8-2012 by Xertious because: added last bit


you will have to excuse me.. i can go on about this for ages.. but let me address ur questions directly

what saltwater has to do with positive and negative is in looking at it from solid(positive) and liquid(negative). equal in field which is why they can mix into solution... but opposite in state. that's what the whole thing is about.. finding balance thru the unity of equal opposites. this is why a fish cannot mate with a dog etc. the two opposites must be from the same field/grouping/stage.

im no expert in isotope analysis but i am certain the rule applies. balance is always key.. a quick google on isotopes shows me that there are unstable isotopes and stable ones.. and guess what the difference is.. the unstable isotopes are seeking balance to become stable. how they do that will have to do with radioactive decay.. and again as all throughout the law of balance with natural events will apply.

man is the only one screwing things up with his unnatural everything. if the motor car functioned efficiently it would transmute oil and drive the car but no harmful exhaust would be the waste product. it would be a clean balanced loop in which the car simply transmutes oil/gas into another substance that the earth can actually use to help better itself. but the greater picture is that in a clean natural system.. once we drive the car and transmute the oil/gas.. we would then be able to reconvert the wasteproduct into oil if we so desired through a reverse process. and this is how u test natural systems. if u can burn oil.. but cant unburn it.. then u are doing one thing and one thing only.. DESTROYING IN AN UNNATURAL WAY! Defying the laws of balance of the universe.. and killing urself and everyone on earth.. killing the planet itself..

Mars part II
edit on 15-8-2012 by 0mage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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People here seem to be unaware of the actual progress which has been made by mathematics in classifying various forms of "infinites" and even construction operations which can occur on them.

en.wikipedia.org...



Much of this math started with Georg Cantor in the late 19th century. It would be more profitable for people to learn it (it is not super easy) rather than writing fairly juvenile and unproductively naive nonsense.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by mbkennel

People here seem to be unaware of the actual progress which has been made by mathematics in classifying various forms of "infinites" and even construction operations which can occur on them.

en.wikipedia.org...



Much of this math started with Georg Cantor in the late 19th century. It would be more profitable for people to learn it (it is not super easy) rather than writing fairly juvenile and unproductively naive nonsense.


nope perhaps you did not study this before you posted it. i will quote from the page:
en.wikipedia.org...

"Transfinite numbers are numbers that are "infinite" in the sense that they are larger than all finite numbers, yet not necessarily absolutely infinite."

following the link to "absolutely infinite numbers" for their definition
en.wikipedia.org...

"The Absolute Infinite is mathematician Georg Cantor's concept of an "infinity" that transcended the transfinite numbers."

and concludes with:

"Cantor equated the Absolute Infinite with God"

---
so transfinite numbers acknowledges that infinity is still out of it's jurisdiction.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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the name is also a dead giveaway - "transfinite numbers"

what Cantor has done is an attempt at creating the bridge between logic and imagination/creativity. recognizing very well that this was necessary. it's a patch and an attempt to shade in a bit more detail into the missing block.

the problem is that in creating this bridge, he realized that yet another bridge would be necessary to actually join transfinite numbers to the infinite seamlessly. and intuitively realized that this pattern would continue.. because creating another bridge will reveal the necessity for another bridge and another and another. unto infinity but never actually touching it.

this is why he would equate infinity to God. im sure he pondered his transfinite numbers with great dedication.

logic is finite. and that is a foundational rule of science. even this transfinite numbers concept is a violation of what science stands for. they are leaning on creativity/thought/imagination once again without giving it it's proper and deserved credit.
edit on 16-8-2012 by 0mage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


I thought you meant add to infiniity,,,ie to add to infinity would be infinity plus one or infinity plus three or infininty plus a qaudlilllion grahams .Thats adding to infinity ,You mean you can calculate the maths to describe infinity.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 12:58 AM
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So many things to say, but I'm tired, so for now, I'll say: IMO, infinity is counting upwards, even if you're counting upwards in the negative. You start from somewhere and continue going, so I guess you could say its always getting bigger. Eternity is infinity in all directions, with no start or end. When used as an adverb, infinitely means more and more. Even "infinitely smaller" is just more and more "smallness."


K. That was prob all bs, maybe incoherent. Oh well. Fun topic. Brain benders! Yay!



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


I didn't read thru all of the replies on this thread, so excuse this if it has been said already, but the symbol for Infinity itself, can be seen as just two zeros side-by-side.. My friends and I used to have endless arguments about zero = infinity and I was always an advocate for that theory.

The consideration of negative numbers as a part of the equation definitely makes this theory solid in my view, but I started with just considering how one can NOT count from 1 to 2 IF (BIG if..) you are taking decimals values into account. after 1.0, it's just an endless well that is willing to get as deep as your willing count, but until one basically settles with "this is exact for all intents and purposes", there are no finite values and all whole numbers are just another way to describe infinity.

of course, I am just talking about numbers as used in abstract math and evaluation and not when related to an observation like "there are two apples in front of me" or analysis of pattern.
edit on 9-12-2013 by HyphenSt1 because: wurdz



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


If you can not infinitely do addition you can not add to infinity.





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