I don't want to go all philosophical and Marxist on you, but capitalism could certainly be considered evil; therefore, super duper rich could
possibly be considered evil.
We would all consider a person without limits evil, bad, (insert phrase for questionable character here). A person without limits would do anything.
We could apply the same logic to a system. Capitalism is a system without limits. Should we not question a system without limits? ***
***These statements are not categorical facts and merely slightly educated opinions. There may be a case in which everything stated is completely
false, and these statements are in fact quite broad and more than likely susceptible to being proven illogical. Yadda reserves the right to back out
of these statements entirely if s/he feels necessary.
Paul Ryan -- Who Hates Government -- Owes His Wealth, Education, Career & Healthcare To Taxpayers
He doesn't 'hate government'. Where on earth did you get that? He's been into government/public service since high school where he was class
president. He embraces government and public servicie. He doesn't like EXCESSIVE government. There is a difference.
Originally posted by pajoly
Ryan, together with his wife, is a multimillionaire.
So is Obama. So is Biden. So what? Being worth a million dollars these days isn't being all that wealthy. Even if it were .. again .. so what?
Being successful is not an evil thing.
Ryan was born privileged.
That's wrong. His family started and ran a small family business. They were successful. His father died young and his mother and siblings had to
take care of their grandmother suffering from dementia. That's hardly a Kennedy-esque 'privileged' life. Even if it were true ... SO WHAT? People
from comfortable backgrounds are somehow less able to do a good job? that's absurd.
His dad was an attorney, but the family moneys comes from, and continues to come in from, the construction company his great grandfather
launched in 1984.
Again .. nothing wrong with that. If anything it's admirable. His family started a small family business and they have made it successful. Shows
good business sense.
The family business made most of its money over decades in federal and state contracts, aka government projects paid by taxpayers.
Again ... nothing wrong with that. Roads must be built. Buildings must be built. The family business is a successful one and it's all done legally.
Good for them! They aren't sucking off welfare or food stamps .. they are enterprising and successful. A small family business. The American
His home is officially listed in the National Register of Historic Places, giving him access to grants, special deductions, even federal
support for some home maintenance.
Again ... so what?
Born into privilege,
Again ... that's wrong. And even if he were ... there would be nothing wrong with it.
Ryan likes to say he paid for school with his own savings.
Not exactly. He is VERY candid that he was given Social Security Survivor benefits for a few years and that he didn't waste that money but instead
pinched pennies and saved it so he could pay for school with it. This is SMART and admirable. If he was 'born into privilege' as you keep falsely
claiming .. he wouldn't have had to use that Social Security money for school but instead would have had other monies to use.
Paul Ryan has been drawing a federal paycheck since he was about 22.
He's been WORKING in government since 1992. WORKING. Earning a living.
Of course, now with 14 years in Congress, our tax dollars will be paying for a full comfy Congressional pension, as well as picking up his
healthcare insurance for life.
Of course, everyone who has been in Congress gets that. Obama gets it. Biden gets it. Nancy Pelosi gets it. Democrat, Republican, Independent ..
they all get it. I don't like it .. but that's the perks given to everyone in DC.
Paul Ryan does not owe his wealth, education, career, and healthcare to the taxpayers. His family created a successful business. They took care of
their finances and were responsible .. not frivolous. They did a good job and got paid for it. He was careful with money (social security is an
insurance, don't forget) and saved it for college instead of wasting it on crap. He worked at his career, it wasn't handed to him. He gets his
healthcare paid for just like everyone else who goes to Washington. (I disagree with the healthcare for life thing ... but EVERYONE gets
edit on 8/14/2012 by FlyersFan because: fixed quote
Originally posted by pajoly
I don't begrudge earned wealth.
Sure sounds like you do.
I do begrudge hypocrites who now that the feds have given them theirs, everyone else can screw off.
The 'feds' didn't 'give' Paul Ryan anything. His family business was successful. They EARNED their income. And Social Security Survivor
Benefits are an insurance payoff. It wasn't 'given'. And no where does he say 'everyone else can screw off'. Paul Ryan doesn't like waste in
entitlement programs .. that's hardly someone who is saying 'screw off' to others ... not even close.
The man has never had to pay a mortgage, pay for healthcare, pay for his education, worry about putting food on the table, etc.
You don't know if any of that is true. And even if he's from a middle class or upper middle class background .. so what? You think that only poor
people can possibly be POTUS or VPOTUS??? Only those people are the ones that should be in office because, if you are earning a good living in life,
you somehow can't do a good job?? That's silly.
How can he possibly relate to the lives of most of us?
Yep ... You DO begrudge those who have been successful in life.
Not sure how anyone can read my thread and come away with rich=evil. You should come away with the irony of getting rich off government than railing
Also, I wish people would stop the idiotic knee jerk assumption that if one detests Romney it must mean one loves Obama. That's kindergarten logic. I
am pissed at Obama for his coddling of the banksters and his assault on liberty via continuing torture, the NDAA, massive Department of Offense
Both parties have made it very clear they reject wholesale the Constitution beyond its value as a manipulative talking point for stupid people.
All that said, on balance, in this go round it is plainly obvious that the current strain of Republicanism is cornering the market on lies,
obstruction and waking up each day asking themselves, "How can I best serve my billionaire donors?"
The same people that control the illusion of having two parties are creating a greater evil on one side, so that you succumb to voting for the lesser
evil, while hoping you are doing a good thing.
Obama is supposed to win the second term and finish their agenda -- he works for the same people Romney and Ryan do. If Republicans were really
supposed to win this time, Ron Paul would have a chance -- he doesn't because the job is not yet done and Obama MUST remain in office for now.
I look at picking Ryan as a running mate as an assault on the intelligence of any sensible American, which means it has to be done on purpose. I will
not be pushed into voting for Obama -- then again who am I kidding, makes no difference how we vote.
I only wish that when politicians (or commentators) refer to "entitlement" programs, they would clarify exactly what they mean. Are they referring
to things such as "Social Security Survivor Benefits?" No, I suppose not. Not Paul Ryan, anyway. Which programs, then? There is actually an easy way
to save tons of money in these programs that the Repubs are so bent on destroying—let's have EVERYBODY who receives them, but thinks that NOBODY
should, simply return the checks! Yes, give back every penny the government has given you. Today.
By the way, this "Social Security Is Broke" scare tactic has been going on since the mid-70s. I myself have been paying into it since 1960 and into
Medicare since it began, and I'm one of those who is going to be pretty upset if either one is dismantled. Because I have paid into it! Why can't
people understand this? If you put money into your bank account for 40 or 50 years and then went to take it out, only to be told that you weren't
"entitled" to it, I think you'd be a little unhappy.
As for Paul Ryan getting lifelong aid from government programs, it seems clear from the OP's info that he did. And does. Perhaps he made better USE
of it than others have, and perhaps it was available to everybody else, and maybe that's all the OP is saying—that others deserve the chances Ryan
got, but Ryan does not seems to agree.
End the Fed, Reinstate Glass Steagall, Repeal NAFTA, Repeal NDAA, Repeal Obamacare. That's a good start.
How about the Federal Government can print its own money instead of borrowing it from these scumbag banks at interest?
Makes sense doesn't it? Oh wait, Kennedy proposed that and LBJ and his banker buddies had him killed.
Now the bankers with their 1500-ish trillion globally in derivatives are being told to "prepare for global financial collapse" within 9 months. The
U.S. debt is 15 trillion, they are trying to sign us on to 600 trillion.
They've been told not to expect help from the Federal Government when collapse occurs.
Good I say, if it collapses we should write off their garbage digital currency created thru fraud, put those responsible in prison, including those
who made it possible (Clinton/Bush Sr./Bush Jr. administrations) and get on with our lives.
Also ending these pointless wars overseas will save some money, then we can create incentives to bring back the businesses who were coerced into going
overseas with tax credits and promises of cheap labor, and backdoor dealings, by the corrupt folks in govt. and the lobbyists.
After that we can work on fixing medicare and social security, but it would help if we had more paying jobs in this country so that more people could
start paying into social security, and cut the income tax FFS, most of it is going towards paying down the interest on our national debt, which we
shouldn't even have in the first place!
Still confused as to how our banking system is so messed up? This cartoon explains it all very simply, and is actually quite enjoyable. You will thank
yourself for watching this and having come out of it more knowledgeable.
edit on 8/14/2012 by smarterthanyou because: (no reason given)
I'm so sick of everyone drawing conclusions of candidates based on what news stations and articles have told you. It's like "aw you know Romney is
your typical..." shut the hell up, you don't KNOW Romney, you don't KNOW Ryan, and you don't how they were raised or lived aside from some biased
news reports. Same goes for Obama, in fact we know even LESS about him than we think we do.
I swear, people here on ATS think they are the crescendo of moral perfection - these people running for office are thousands of times the person any
of you ever will be.
What makes the OP think 'Ryan hates government?' Paul Ryan is the ultimate bureaucrat. It is all he has ever been (except for one year working for
grandpa) and all he has ever wanted to be. He does not hate government - the guy LOVES government. He hates that what HIS idea of government should
be doing to us is not currently doing it to us - someone else's idea of how we should be herded and numbered and spied on, terrorized and ripped off
is controlling us. Ryan wants his ideas about how to herd, number, spy, terrorize, rip us off and control us to get some play. .Same coin, different
The federal gov did not give him Social Security benefits, his father did. That's not a free money hand-out. His father (and our fathers and
mothers) paid into that pool. He earned it with his father's death and his minor child status.
The fed gives free money to alot of people who make nothing of themselves.
Which programs that Paul Ryan benefited from is he planning on doing away with?
It was actually Obama that cut(according to a new CBO estimate) 716 billion from medicare to pay for 1/3 of Obamacare. That's why AARP shilled for the
bill. They sell the insurance that will cover the doughnut hole.
I think attacking this guy for actually proposing solutions to keep entitlement programs solvent is a little short sighted.
His proposal is supposed to be a starting point for debate and eventually a compromise of some sort.
It's no wonder most politicians don't offer substantive ideas that address the actual problem of government spending. Once they do, they're accused of
throwing granny off the cliff and labeled as anti-government, extremists, murderers and racists among other things.
The fact is S.S., medicare and Medicaid are F'd and if we don't do anything meaningful to address it, it won't be there for anybody before too long.
edit on 15-8-2012 by glasshouse because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-8-2012 by glasshouse because: (no reason given)
These "straw man" arguments really are getting old and they come across as childish. If you don't know what a "strawman argument is, you can read
about it here. en.wikipedia.org... . You really should be able to do better if you want to sway anyone toward your position.
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