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The truth about Roswell/Area 51 part 2

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posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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Well thanks guys for the comments and I enjoyed reading them. Before I get started I want to say to the people who asked what about UFO sightings before the 1900s I do believe it wasn't humans
Remember guys I'm just 13

Well..where did I leave off? Oh yeah the alien body's well they were in a comatose which means their body's would never spark back to life again. The witnesses say these were alien body's. On a personal note I don't know what they were whether it was aliens or humans the goverment covered it up. I'm not even gonna go into the cover ups because most of us know what they are. Well the pieces of the aircraft and bodies were shipped to Roswell Air Force Base in 1947 and held there until1951 and you'll never guess where the anonymous source said they were taken to......Area 51 and five guys were taken to Area 51 to figure out what made the aircraft hover. The facility they worked at was none other than S-4. Another very interesting thing that caught me was when the president found out about the Stalin hoax he didn't say anything because in the USA tests were also being conducted on people to, up until the 1980s the anonymous source said. But the organization that has always dodged the questions whether in was nuclear bombs or underground tunnel testing was the Nevada Test Site which has changed its name several times. Think about it with all the attention on Area 51 no one thought about The Nevada Test Site or what EG&G was doing.

Hope you guys have enjoyed this thread I'll probably post threads every now and then .

PS- Deny Ignorance haha




posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by Mjumpman
 


Is this about that story where the 'aliens' are supposedly just medical experiments from Dr. Joseph Mengele?

If so, erm, sorry, but, it's an old story and has been discussed several times before:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



edit on 14-8-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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shouldnt you be out jumpin hop scotch n rope or gettin in trouble...? Area 51 is over hyped, if you really want to know what goes on in side talk to the right veteran and ask them about it



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Mjumpman
 


Keep searching for answers, but remember to have some fun while you are young.
By continuing to post, you will be going head to head with people who are most knowledgable about these topics as you will find anywhere.
They will teach you a lot.
The Roswell/51 case is one of the most talked about however, still, keep trying to connect the dots.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by smilesmcgee
reply to post by Mjumpman
 


Keep searching for answers, but remember to have some fun while you are young.
By continuing to post, you will be going head to head with people who are most knowledgable about these topics as you will find anywhere.
They will teach you a lot.
The Roswell/51 case is one of the most talked about however, still, keep trying to connect the dots.


This is fairly true.
When it comes to Roswell, unless you either make something up, or you legitimately know someone firsthand that was a witness or a relative to a witness/participant that has information related to the event, it's probably already been posted here.

I'd certainly like to see someone crack one or some of the soldiers that helped clean up the mess. Would they say it was a Mogul weather balloon, or what? Why aren't any of these guys, old soldiers that were there for the cleanup, probably well past retirement by now, coming forward with whatever stories they might have?



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 02:24 AM
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I live in Las Vegas and have lived here for 21 years. When I was 18 I new my friends dad worked for the military on top secret projects. His dad at the time only would tell us that he would have to fly from Mc Caren airport to work at a base that he could not talk about. We both thought it was weird that his dad wouldn't talk about his job for the military. We could tell that his dad was very uncomfortable about talking about his job and we were only able to get him to say as little as he did only after we knew he had had several alcoholic beverages. Basically we would stay away until we felt he had enough alcohol in him and then we would casually bring up conversation then slowly change the subject. Sober he would say absolutely nothing and he would make you afraid to even approach him about anything. With alcohol involved its almost like it was eating him up inside not being able to talk about what he was so proud of doing. An Area 51 employee.. Wow!

We stayed on him and got information piece by piece and kind of put the bits and pieces of information together like a jig saw puzzle that has lots of little pieces. It wasn't easy but we wre on a mission. We were on a mission to find out why he flew from Mc Caren airport in Las Vegas to a secret military base that he was really afraid to tak about.

I can say he talked about secret hangers, he did say he had top secrete clearence and some of the biggest most delicate things he was involved in had nothing to do with stealth fighters or weaponry.

It was sad when he would get to the point of revealing some information he knew he shouldn't because his eyes would always gloss over and he would almost start to tear up in mid sentence. He would say a few unbelievable things and then he would say that just talking amongst ourselves puts our lives in danger. I think talking about it sobered him up quick because he would all of a sudden clear his throught then tell us to get out of the house.

My friend and I would talk to each other about what his dad had been telling us and try to make since of it. What we were able to put together was this. His dad did in fact work at Area 51, he had top secret clearence, he worked on top secret projects that had nothing to do with stealth or weaponry. The one time we asked him if he was working on anything from another planet he got quiet, stared into his drink and quietly under his breath replied ( you don't want to know nor should you.) This dropped our jaws, just by his demeanor we knew this was some serious s--t. My friend and I talked about it afterwards and decided we know more than we thought we ever would. We talked about the seriousness of what we now know and decided that we would keep this information between us.

Well you wonder why I now talk. My friends dad disappeared about 11 years ago, he went to work one day then never came home. My friends mom thinks he left for another woman but my friend and I think theirs more to it than that. My best friend passed away last year after a serious car accident. The police say he was ran off the road and they are still looking for information to lead to an arrest. Basically they don't know who ran him off the road. I have a few conspiracy theories.

If I am asked by someone, Do you believe in UFOs ? I now think of my best friend and what I feel we got the real answers too and I reply, ( You don't want to know nor should you.)

I still live in Las Vegas, I now fear that I may be next. I think maybe my friends house was bugged. I hope I'm just being paranoid. But I feel that from the conversations between my friend my friends dad and myself I have full closure on my questions about life beyond our planet. I only reveal this information because I feel like if there is someone out there that knows the truth about something like this they should say something and in the small circle that I was in I seem to be the only one left. I guarantee my son will know in detail, everything that I know.

I see on a daily basis the Janet flights leaving Mc Caren airport, you know the white jets with the red stripe along their side with no identification numbers on their side. They are real, they are going to Area 51, and what's going on out their is no joke.

I know more than I feel comfortable saying, but like my friends dad, it feels good to let out some of the pressure. Let's just hope all is good... I will reveal more, not here, not soon, but there is more to be said.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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Wow- heavy story. If its true about your friends father, just disappearing one day after leaving for work- well thats terrifying. Its not beyond the bounds of possibility that he ran off with another woman, but it would be strange that he didnt at least let his son know after a while.

Anyway, thanks for the post, and stay safe.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Link for "The truth about Roswell/Area 51 part 1" ?



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Mjumpman
 


Mjumpman, it's hard to believe that you are still pushing that ridiculous story from Jacobsen's book. The book and the new Roswell story from her source have both been thoroughly discredited. Also, Jacobsen's source never mentioned S-4 (the apparently fictitious facility invented by Bob Lazar; there has never been any proof that it exists).

In her book, Jacobsen makes the ludicrous claim that, “Area 51 is named as such not because it was a randomly chosen quadrant, as has often been presumed, but because the 1947 crash remains from Roswell, New Mexico, were sent from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base out to a secret spot in the Nevada desert – in 1951.”

This claim has no basis in fact and makes no logical sense. First, a vast amount of available documentation describes the origins of Area 51, starting with its selection in 1955 as a test site for the U-2. The various Nevada Test Site areas are not organized in any logical order, and include Areas 1 through 31 (with a few absent numbers). Areas 13 and 31 rarely appear on maps, and Area 51 only appears on those dating between 1958 and 1978. Some maps show Area 25 (Nuclear Rocket Development Area) broken down into Areas 400 and 401. Area 52 (Tonopah Test Range) was established in 1957. Area 58 (Central Nevada Test Area) was established in 1967. There is no connection between the year of creation and the area number. There was, in fact, nothing at Groom Lake prior to May 1955 other than a WW2-era dirt strip and debris from gunnery practice. Aerial photos taken in 1952 show no man-made structures whatsoever.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Uneedhlp247
..

I know more than I feel comfortable saying, but like my friends dad, it feels good to let out some of the pressure. Let's just hope all is good... I will reveal more, not here, not soon, but there is more to be said.

I'll be honest, I don't believe any of this.

Your past posts lead me to believe you have a good imagination. E.g.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think that if your experiences were real, and you were gravely involved, you'd not be so prone to engage lightly in various fantastic theories, for instance inter-dimensional Sasquatch, ok, good one, or not refer to the experiences you describe here, in some form or another. There is no trace of the story in any of your past posts.

Also, your username makes me wonder who it refers to?

Sorry, mate, not believeable. And if you had experienced what you did, I can't believe you'd be so stupid as to post part of it here, and make the world wait for the 'next installment' while the M.I.B.s were coming your way.



edit on 14-8-2012 by ScientificUAPer because: correction



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Contraposition
Link for "The truth about Roswell/Area 51 part 1" ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But this really should have been contained in the first thread, no need for two...

And Jacobsen's crap is still, well, crap....



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by ScientificUAPer
 


Believe what you want. I know the Janet flights from Vegas to Area 51 are fact. My friends dad working on a secret base that he had to fly to regularly, fact. And the fact that I have a good imagination has everything to do with what I now believe due to what I have been told. Was my friends dad telling us stories that weren't true? I myself question this all the time. It's very possible. Do I think he ran off with another woman? Very possible, but you didn't see his wife. He was a family man, and they were a close knit family. Between what I was told and what I have seen myself in the skies above Las Vegas, I have no doubts about life in the galaxy. Worried about M.I.B.s? Why should I be? I mean this is just one mans opinion about stories I've been told. Park you vehicle anywhere close to Mc Caren airport in the morning or around 5 pm and you will also see these Janet flights leaving or returning. They are exactly as described in many TV shows.



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Uneedhlp247
..Worried about M.I.B.s? Why should I be?


Previously...


Originally posted by Uneedhlp247
...

I still live in Las Vegas, I now fear that I may be next. I think maybe my friends house was bugged. I hope I'm just being paranoid. But I feel that from the conversations between my friend my friends dad and myself I have full closure on my questions about life beyond our planet. ...


Yea, good one, liar.


edit on 14-8-2012 by ScientificUAPer because: correction



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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good luck in your research kid. here's some data you might be interested in.

Area 51- Dreamland - 50 Years of Secret Flight Testing in Nevada



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by Mjumpman
Well the pieces of the aircraft and bodies were shipped to Roswell Air Force Base in 1947 and held there until 1951 and you'll never guess where the anonymous source said they were taken to......Area 51 and five guys were taken to Area 51 to figure out what made the aircraft hover. The facility they worked at was none other than S-4. Another very interesting thing that caught me was when the president found out about the Stalin hoax he didn't say anything because in the USA tests were also being conducted on people to, up until the 1980s the anonymous source said. But the organization that has always dodged the questions whether in was nuclear bombs or underground tunnel testing was the Nevada Test Site which has changed its name several times. Think about it with all the attention on Area 51 no one thought about The Nevada Test Site or what EG&G was doing.


The Roswell crash was known about throughout the whole town in July of 1947 to be that of a 'spacecraft.' There were multiple sites, one closer to Roswell in Chaves county with aliens recovered and Capt. Oliver “Pappy” Henderson flew them on a C-54 to Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio. Intelligence officer Major Jesse Marcel had flown to Fort Worth Texas on July 8th with pieces of wreckage and a day later on the 9th, a B-29 nicknamed Straight Flush with a tail number of 447301 flew wreckage and alien bodies to Fort Worth, Texas. There were then trips to Wright Field and Washington from Fort Worth. Your unidentified source is interesting because I have information from a man who was inside the foreign technology department at Wright-Patterson formerly Wright Field saying that the Roswell evidence was taken to area 51. I highly doubt it was as early as 1951, because up until then they had vaults underground at Wright Field but it was the early 50s when underground establishments became desired, and a large boring maching was created from a new technology to hollow out the midwest. My year is 1963 that all the aliens were taken to area 51, so for over 20 years it was kept complete secret which makes the Charles Hall case somewhat interesting.



posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 


The so-called "Roswell Incident" was a non-event that got blown out of proportion into an urban legend. The terms "flying disc" and "saucer" were never accurate description of the material found on the Foster Ranch. They were buzzwords generated by the spate of sightings of unidentified flying objects that year, none of which were ever confirmed to be extraterrestrial. The debris (foil and balsa wood) found by Mac Brazel was quickly identified as the remains of radar targets for a balloon device. The story was effectively dead - as it deserved to be - until Stanton Friedman revived it in 1978.

Claims that there were dozens, or even hundreds, of eyewitnesses are not accurate. When Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz, for example, claim to have “interviewed more than seventy witnesses,” the testimonies of just 25 people were presented in their book, The Roswell Incident. Only seven of these were firsthand sources who claimed to have seen the debris, and one of these accounts is suspect. Only five of the seven claimed to have handled the material personally, and one of them was adamant that it was not anything extraterrestrial. The remaining so-called “witnesses” cited in The Roswell Incident were either secondhand sources (whose testimonies constitute hearsay) or people who saw no wreckage at all or were never present at the debris field during the critical time. In other words, they were not actually witnesses at all.

In recent years, new Roswell stories have emerged that are far more elaborate and interesting that older versions of the event. I think it is to say that the passage of time erodes the accuracy of a person’s recollections of an event. Are we supposed to believe that as these "witnesses" grow older, their memories have improved?

While Maj. Jesse Marcel is frequently held up as the :"star witness" of Roswell, an examination of his military record by author Kal Korff proves that he was not as credible as most people think. The file indicates that Marcel had a penchant for exaggerating things while repeatedly trying to “write himself” into the history books. In fact, Marcel’s tendency to exaggerate was specifically noted in his military records by none other than the commander of the base at Roswell at that time, in a review of his performance that was signed just after the incident occurred. In interviews with researchers, Marcel made a number of false claims about his military service and education that should have been easily caught.

In July 1947, there was only one claimed "crash site" location, the debris field on Foster Ranch. Only later, did numerous claims of additional sites appear. My favorite is the one on the property of the improbably named Hub Corn. Mr. Corn explained to a television interviewer that he realized that the true crash site was on his property because people were willing to pay to visit the site.

UFO researchers have wasted too much time and energy on Roswell. This "red herring" is a distraction that pulls resources away from any number of more interesting cases that deserve examination.



posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
The so-called "Roswell Incident" was a non-event that got blown out of proportion into an urban legend. The terms "flying disc" and "saucer" were never accurate description of the material found on the Foster Ranch. They were buzzwords generated by the spate of sightings of unidentified flying objects that year, none of which were ever confirmed to be extraterrestrial. The debris (foil and balsa wood) found by Mac Brazel was quickly identified as the remains of radar targets for a balloon device. The story was effectively dead - as it deserved to be - until Stanton Friedman revived it in 1978.


This is what the debunkers would have you believe, but their stories don't add up to the actual witnesses, and as I said, you cannot erase history by neglecting the fact that observers of aliens and craft knew the fallen object at Roswell to be that of a spacecraft, and consequentally the whole town within a few days (before the military had flown the first wreckage and bodies on July 8th to Wright Field) knew the object to be a spacecraft with little alien men who were on board. Jesse Marcel Jr. over and over has said to the debunkers - it wasn't balsa wood. Here is Jesse Marcel telling you that it was not material from a weather balloon, basically if you don't believe him you don't have enough integrity to believe yourself, which means that under no circumstance should I come clsoe to believing you because that proves you don't know what to think or believe. I don't think anything of Kal Korff to support because I googled him and the first two web pages are 'Kal Korff is an idiot' and 'Kal Korff exposed.' kalisanidiot.blogspot.com...




Claims that there were dozens, or even hundreds, of eyewitnesses are not accurate. When Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz, for example, claim to have “interviewed more than seventy witnesses,” the testimonies of just 25 people were presented in their book, The Roswell Incident. Only seven of these were firsthand sources who claimed to have seen the debris, and one of these accounts is suspect. Only five of the seven claimed to have handled the material personally, and one of them was adamant that it was not anything extraterrestrial. The remaining so-called “witnesses” cited in The Roswell Incident were either secondhand sources (whose testimonies constitute hearsay) or people who saw no wreckage at all or were never present at the debris field during the critical time. In other words, they were not actually witnesses at all.


The numbers are correct, they don't have to include every one in the book. There are probably just over a couple dozen who had hands on knowledge of the bodies, about 12 of them talked. The highest ranking general involved, Brig. General Thomas Jefferson Dubose who was in charge of General Roger Ramey even told you in his old age that it wasn't a weather balloon, you don't listen to him either?





In recent years, new Roswell stories have emerged that are far more elaborate and interesting that older versions of the event. I think it is to say that the passage of time erodes the accuracy of a person’s recollections of an event. Are we supposed to believe that as these "witnesses" grow older, their memories have improved?


Another extremely high ranking Lt. Colonel stationed at Wright Field where I had mentioned the bodies went to, later becoming a Brigadier General at the Pentagon Arthur E. Exon tells us that Roswell was an alien spacecraft out of this world and the White House knew about it within 24 hours of the discovery. So I have displayed that the top ranking men of the era involved with the story later admitted the truth as I claim, and you are just arguing without any support at all, or by saying they have bad memory which is complete ridiculous and obviously only a statement to cause a psychological response meaning you don't care about the truth.


In July 1947, there was only one claimed "crash site" location, the debris field on Foster Ranch. Only later, did numerous claims of additional sites appear. My favorite is the one on the property of the improbably named Hub Corn. Mr. Corn explained to a television interviewer that he realized that the true crash site was on his property because people were willing to pay to visit the site.


One thing you are right on - the Hub Corn site was a hoax. In early July of 1947, there were at least 2 main locations of interest and possibly 3.

So who were others that told you the weather ballon was a true story now that I have shown you those behind the cover-up admitted to the lie? I am not sure if you believe Apollo astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, but here he states that his family were ranchers in Roswell during that time that an alien craft came down.




posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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Kal Korff and Karl Pflock are unfairly vilified because they were "believers" who each pursued a separate path of thorough research, and ultimately concluded that the excitement in July 1947 resulted from balloon debris being misinterpreted as something otherworldly. The debris found on Foster Ranch in 1947 was correctly identified as material from balloon-borne radar targets shortly after it arrived at Fort Worth.

Jesse Marcel Jr. was 12 years old in 1947. He recalled being awakened at 2:00 a.m. to look at some debris his father was taking to the base. Three decades later, he told interviewers that it was "foil-like stuff, very thin, metallic-like but not metal." In later interviews, he described "I-beams," but his father disputed that description, saying the beams were "three-eighths or a half-inch square." Under these circumstances, I'm not sure how much stock I would put in Jesse Jr.'s memories of the incident as proof that the debris was anything exotic.

In Fort Worth, Gen. Ramey's chief of staff, Col. Thomas Dubose, accepted the debris from Marcel. Ramey allowed some press photographers to take pictures of it in his office, with Marcel holding some of the material. Marcel told Berlitz and Moore, "the stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. It was not a staged photo."

Some investigators have charged that the real debris was switched for balloon material for the benefit of the press. When interviewed by Jaime Shandera, Dubose replied, "Oh, bull! That material was never switched." Upon examining the now famous photos, Dubose said, "That's the material that Marcel brought into Fort Worth from Roswell." The only press writer/photographer positively known to have been present in Ramey's office was Jay Bond Johnson, who published his article in the Ft. Worth Morning Star Telegram. Johnson described the debris to Randle and Schmitt: "It wasn't an impressive sight, just some aluminum-like foil, balsa wood sticks, and some burnt rubber that was stinking up the office."

Afterward, one of Ramey's aides asked Army Air Force weatherman Irving Newton to examine the "flying saucer" material because Ramey suspected it might be from some sort of meteorological equipment. "As soon as I saw it, I giggled," Newton testified in 1995. "I was convinced at the time that this was a balloon with a RAWIN target and remain convinced."

All of Gen. Arthur Exon's stories are second hand or badly garbled. He describes hearing about "stories and rumors" concerning events at Wright Field from colleagues, after the fact. he was not present during these events. Exon's alleged description of flying over the crash site nearly six months later includes contradictory details, and he may have been misquoted by Randle and Schmitt. Exon told Stanton Friedman that Randle and Schmitt had attributed considerably more to him than he had actually said, and that he had no fist-hand involvement with Roswell.

There is no doubt that sightings of unidentified objects in the skies over the U.S. was of great interest to the government and military services. The first formal investigation to evaluate the "flying discs" was project SIGN in 1948. At that time, the Air Force had no idea what these objects were, or how to defend against them if they were a threat to national security. There is no mention of the Roswell Incident in any Project SIGN document, nor in a secret memorandum from Gen. Nathan Twining dated 23 September 1947. Twining believed that the sightings represented a real (not imagined0 phenomenon, but decried "the lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects."

In 1953, Capt. Edward Ruppelt, head of Project BLUE BOOK, gave a secret briefing on UFOs to the senior leadership of Air Defense Command in which he stated that "there is no - and I want to emphasize and repeat the word no - evidence of this in any report the Air force has received...We have never picked up any hardware. By that I mean any pieces, parts, whole articles, or anything that would indicate an unknown material or object." During another secret briefing in March 1948, a SIGN investigator stated, "I can't even tell you how much we would give to have one of those crash in an area so that we could recover whatever they are."

In a secret letter to the Director of USAF Intelligence in November 1948, the Air Material Command chief of intelligence stated, "The possibility that the reported objects are vehicles from another planet has not been ignored. However, tangible evidence to support conclusions about such a possibility are completely lacking...The exact nature of these objects cannot be established until physical evidence, such as that which would result from a crash, has been obtained."

The Air Force had no such evidence because the Roswell Incident did not involve the crash of a "flying saucer." It was just balloon debris.



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