It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Thieves of Religion - How to identify them by thier fruit.

page: 2
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 02:49 AM
link   
reply to post by ahnggk
 




Jesus never said said anything good about money and the things of this world. It is to be hated, despised, thrown out like a rotting garbage literally. You are to carry your cross. To enjoy this world other than God's love in it's purest form and the Holy Spirit, is the gospel of the antichrist.


I am not christian myself, but I will say that you are one of the rare type of Christians who pay attention to the teachings against wealth and material luxury.




posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 06:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I am not christian myself, but I will say that you are one of the rare type of Christians who pay attention to the teachings against wealth and material luxury.



To hate the things God hates is the start of the wonderful relationship with God. It's very difficult to find this love elsewhere. When everyone has forsaken you, including your family due to your failures, God's love is still there. You'll find comfort even in life-threatening situations, even if you have to sleep in the street! It is not because of the promise of eternal life but because of this wonderful relationship.

Many secular information from ATS actually provided the reason why it's the right thing to hate wealth and the good things in this world


The truth is not only confined to the Bible. The purpose of the Holy Spirit is guiding you to all truths and there is no mention by Jesus that all truths, not even most can be found in the scriptures. It was only men, inspired by the Holy Spirit or not who added to the scriptures later. Jesus gave a warning against this.
edit on 15-8-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 07:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith...

But as "faith" means belief in something that does not exist, then is your God real? How do you know this? Does he appear to you, talk to you? Do things in your favor? And sorry but "Jesus" is made up, Christ is the man who came here to teach us how to love each other.
He failed.


Faith is the evidence of things hoped for. For any of us to function on any give day, faith comes in the form of all things assumed as evident. The sun will rise. I don't make it rise, yet faith dictates that what is hidden comes to light. I don't engage law to govern the universe, yet the re is a governor. I don't make my eyes see, yet they do. My hair grows and this is assumed as evident. The only thing I do is think and move by those thoughts. Nothing else is done by me or any of us apart from the two things we can do. The entire world is one big evident masterwork of faith in the one that provides the word to make it work.

An acorn has a 75 foot oak tree inside. Faith tells me that this is designed. The most evident answer is the axiom that it is IN GOD WE TRUST. It is evident and we are without excuse if we fail to collapse the wave function of salvation by faith. The choice is there in the 5th dimension to flip that switch. God merely shows us that the hidden choice is evident from the nature of what our thoughts and actions dictate in HIS world of designs. All the designs and archetypes we experience point back to Him and His Son and Spirit. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the three sides of the triangle in the circle. It's the two crossed sticks of the Tav. It's the story woven into the Hebrew letters. It's the morphology of the world Amnion. It's everywhere you care to look. Every movie. Every experience in nature. Every color. The story of our lives is faith in a God that chooses to be hidden, yet reflective of all that light reveals.

Simply follow the link in my signature. All the evidence you need is reflected there by topic. We simply need to seek and God fills in the faith for our choice.

What do these words formed from root morphology tell us about ourselves? Faith knows that the shepherd is cutting away our pride. This very process can be stopped by us if we walk away. It's a choice.

Amnion / Amniotic Fluid / Amnesia / Lamb / Cloud / Caul

"Amnion a word used to describe the Membrane (Veil) that covers the baby in the womb. Amniotic fluid is the water that protects the baby in the womb. The word Amnion in Latin extends to also make the related word Lamb, as in the wool pulled over the eyes to keep the sheep from seeing the sheerer at work. Amnesia is the condition of not remembering.

A shepherd leads the flock from danger and goes after lost sheep. A sheerer will not harm the sheep, but the cutting can often leave marks. The shepherd pulls the wool over the eyes of the sheep for its own protection. The wool is the symbol of what is cut away (the protective cover). Sin is also cut by this symbolism in the process.

A Caul is a thin, translucent tissue. It is a fragment of the amniotic membrane. When the baby emerges from the womb, the Amnion sometimes covers the face. The parents have the honor of removing the covering and it is considered an honor for a sailor to have a child born with this covering. Why? The baby was protected in the water by the Caul and this is significant for the sailor by symbolism for obvious reasons. The Caul comes in many types and sometimes covers the entire body. "

For the rest of this truth, see the thread. LINK






edit on 15-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 07:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 




As for the previous generations under the law. Law is designed for the thief. It protects those who follow the law from the thief. God is the law giver and the giver of life. In previous stages of man's development, it was necessary to correct error and require payment for sin.



"Law is designed for the thief. It protects those who follow the law from the thief. "

Well...yes. But the law was more than that.
You would know that the time and time, keeping the law is equated with righteousness.

God says it Himself. So did his prophets and Jesus.



In previous stages of man's development, it was necessary to correct error and require payment for sin.


Payment for sin? what kind of payment? Let me guess...blood sacrifice?
But what do we do with all those verses that call for sincere repentance to God?

Like say, Psalm 51. It does NOT say anything about any "payment" for sin, but rather calls for repentance to God.



Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The promise is a Spirit give to us that is not hindered by this process. THREAD

Christ is our High Priest, as outlined in Hebrews. We are not the ones that fulfill the law. Christ did for us. The requirements He outlines in the NT red letters is His work in us. We could never meet that demand and still cannot meet that demand, otherwise, we are doing the job he came to do. His words merely point out what was necessary. He fulfilled this so that we can no be as He is. HOLY. We will be there when He appears and presents us with the Holy Spirit. At this point, we are only comforted by the Holy Spirit. Soon, we will possess that same spirit that allows us to be LIKE Christ. Not yet. It's coming.

Look up the concept of freedom in Christ. A heart that is change by Christ is evident in our desires that walk away from sin. We are still sinners and will still sin. The evidence is in the change that is taking place as the Holy Spirit works in and through us. It's a process. Freedom comes by not being under the guardian. We are released from this prison.




edit on 15-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 08:33 AM
link   
reply to post by ahnggk
 


To hate the things God hates is the start of the wonderful relationship with God.

So by your logic, one must learn to hate before any relationship with the Christian God can be established? Yeah, that makes perfect sense, and explains why Christian are so hateful most of the time, especially to secular folks, Pagans, and Gay people.

Religiously motivated hatred, animosity and intolerance

At Least 43 Things God Hates

So go ahead, form up some hate for me and the others here who think as I do. Hate us with all your hart. That certainly will get you into Heaven, such as it is.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 08:40 AM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Faith is the evidence of things hoped for.

Stop trying to change the definition of the word please.
Used in the context you are referring to:

belief that is not based on proof

firm belief in something for which there is no proof: complete trust

This is the same faith a child has in Santa Claus. Isn't there a thread that refers to that very thing?



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 02:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Faith is the evidence of things hoped for.

Stop trying to change the definition of the word please.


Why don't you take it up with the author?

Oh wait... you don't believe he exists, never mind...



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 03:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by autowrench
So by your logic, one must learn to hate before any relationship with the Christian God can be established? Yeah, that makes perfect sense, and explains why Christian are so hateful most of the time, especially to secular folks, Pagans, and Gay people.


I've made plenty of posts and threads regarding this subject. Any person must never the object of hate.

The object of hate must be the fallen angels and man's inventions - religion, industrial revolution, urbanization, worldly things, houses, cars, education, careers, etc. Because these things inflict much suffering and misery to all of God's creations on Earth.

The object of love must be God and His creations, nature, people, animals, Earth.

'People' certainly includes all kinds: gays, pagans, etc.

But we must hate beliefs that are ungodly and promotes/find loopholes to committing injustice, unrighteousness, greed, etc.

I hate the mainstream Christianity's beliefs, but not their people. Unfortunately, they are also the hardest bunch to win, to get to really follow Jesus.

It really gets them mad when I say something about Jesus in the literal context. Not here in ATS but in real life people. Mainstream Christianity is really the antichrist.

Unbelievers of Christianity or those who don't believe in God or any god at all is more open to the teachings of Jesus. It would actually spark interest in them those radical teachings and would lead them to ask questions instead of refute everything I say about Jesus and keep throwing Paul's and Old Testament teachings to me.

Jesus was dead accurate about the future implying that it will be 'Christians' who will persecute those who will follow hard after Him.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 07:12 PM
link   
Those are called axioms and science is founded on them as an ever-changing combination of paradoxes that can never have proof. Axioms are only most evident. God is the MOST evident axiom we could use as a foundation since ALL things are governed. When science say that it has explained why, it merely states that a paradox has been resolved and an excluded middle has adapted axioms once again. The Bible is founded on ancient axioms of natural law in parable and proverb. It is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. When we notice an out of place fact in the Bible, our axioms have not caught up. The sun casting a tent is one of those ideas we are just now realizing. See my thread on the fact that the Earth going around the sun is false. They corkscrew around each other and they are clothed by the sun, as a tent. The Bible was more accurate from the beginning. TOROIDAL VORTEX OF THE SUN

Isaiah 40:22
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

Proverbs 8:27-29
When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,

Job 26:10
He has described a circle upon the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.

1 Samuel 2:8
He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

Job 9:6
who shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.

Job 38:4-6
Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements -- surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone?

Job 26: 7
He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing.


Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Faith is the evidence of things hoped for.

Stop trying to change the definition of the word please.
Used in the context you are referring to:

belief that is not based on proof

firm belief in something for which there is no proof: complete trust

This is the same faith a child has in Santa Claus. Isn't there a thread that refers to that very thing?

edit on 15-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 09:37 PM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


I dont think my points were addressed.
You simply posted some unrelated verses from elsewhere coupled with some theology.

I'll bring up those 2 points again...

1. Do you agree that the bible teaches that keeping the "law" is equated with righteousness?

2. Have scriptures like Psalm 51 become invalid today? Cant sinners turn to God in repentance anymore?



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 11:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


I dont think my points were addressed.
You simply posted some unrelated verses from elsewhere coupled with some theology.

I'll bring up those 2 points again...

1. Do you agree that the bible teaches that keeping the "law" is equated with righteousness?

2. Have scriptures like Psalm 51 become invalid today? Cant sinners turn to God in repentance anymore?


I try not to answer pretext (a purpose or motive alleged or an appearance assumed in order to cloak the real intention or state of affairs) Context needs to be founded on a premise. I also try to avoid incorrect premise. Instead, I use verbal judo. I speak for the other person in the same manner in which they should be speaking for themselves.

The answers are evident by my words in past threads if you read closely. The answer to 1 was provided in Galatians 3 and can be found as the main point of all scripture. Love fulfills the law. Why? Love cannot harm or steal. The Bible outlines us all as thieves. The two thieves on the cross represent all of humanity choosing to walk back to God in humility or run from Him in pride and shame. Keeping the law is attempting to do what Christ did and outlined in the red letters as His perfection to attain for us by example. He is the only one worthy of fulfilling the law. He wasn't a thief. Little noticed fact. He was NOT a thief, yet he stepped in for us on the cross. This is amazing!

Question 2.

Jesus often referred to Psalms as the law. Interesting to contemplate when considering Moses Law from God. Psalms is the law of the freeman. We don't get the law of Moses fully because we are associating the free man with the consequence. Not so. The lawbreaker is the one who suffers the capital punishment. In most cases, the capital punishment of the law was only used for the worst of offenders. In all cases, the law was a reflection of the necessity of the law in a lawless society. In all other regions of the world, lawlessness was governed by Tyranny. Not in Israel.

Psalms 51

18 May it please you to prosper Zion,
to build up the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then you will delight in the sacrifices of the righteous,
in burnt offerings offered whole;
then bulls will be offered on your altar.

Zion is the kingdom of the 1000 year reign of Christ when the Government is upon HIS shoulders. Walls surround. Christ is the wall and the capstone. The capstone is the seed that originates all the roots below and the tree above. What is the capstone?

The will to give and receive.

A sacrifice of righteousness is a gift. A gift must first be earned. If you smoke, you get cancer. Why? You didn't earn the thing you took. That is the will of a thief. A true gift is earned, then given away. If you work a job and suffer the labor of hardship for you family, who do you give it to? If you smoke, you give it to yourself. Smoking is a mere reflection of the rest. This is not a sacrifice. It's a dishonor and nothing that is worthy of righteousness.

The Bull is the heart of God. The Father is the Ox that stands watch over the tent. The family and wife are safe inside. The wall of the tent is a separation between what goes on with the husband and wife and between the children that are veiled from what comes next. The Altar is our heart. A brunt offering is one that is earned first in the fire of trials. The temple of the body is then cleansed in the water and the blood of the sacrifice is applied to the next generation. The Hebrew Letters tell this story. See my signature link Agro-Bio Linguistics.

Jesus is the perfect sacrifice for us so that our Son does not stand in our place as the sacrifice. You must be born again. The son is the previous father and the father is the previous son. Mother is saved in childbearing if she raises her sons well and takes care of the Father.

1 Timothy 2

14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

I have a rule in my classroom. Praise is earned and dishonor and disrespect are met with compassion. True progress comes not from acts of responsibility, but from acts that go above and beyond. I can create high expectations in my students, but when they create their own, real progress is made and lives are changed.

For us in this world, we have responsibilities to decency and honor. These are expected of any human. We each fall short of this in many ways. The real progress in this world comes when men and women act by the example of good for its own sake. Duplicity is not a reason for works. If I work to avoid judgment, what am I after? If I work for reward, what am I really wanting? Faith works for God because He first worked for us. We give what he earned for us with no requirement to do so. Bread of shame is eating without earning what is eaten. Giving forward is receiving yourself. All gifts that are given are first earned or received. Did Jesus teach THIS law for the ones who are not thieves rejecting the will of the Father? How can we then take our own salvation? Receive yes. Taking makes us a thief again and nullifies Christ's work on the Cross.

His will is to give and receive. Saving ourselves is duplicity. Being saved is a gift that we are then to give again to another. I am trying to give it in this thread. Will my suffering here bring a reward that is earned? If one soul sees the error of the thief and seeks God, all 6000 posts were worth the one that finally made the difference. The other person is the reward.




edit on 15-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:36 AM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


-Islam - Based on death and destruction by taking over nations in the name of God. Pure mirror to the will of God.

Sorry, Enochwasright, but 2.1 Billion Muslims disagree with you.

Are you sure you're describing Islam and not some Country, say for Example America or Israel, only let's take the name of God out of it, because they do it for their own vile agenda and their false gods.

You talk about Thieves and their fruits, I say this is your fruit, bias and self-righteousness.

I say also that you are a thief, because you are stealing the Glory of God and giving it to Jesus, His servant. All Praise is due to God and His Glory He gives to no one. God saves. Jesus cannot save any soul that God does not will to save, that you may know that decision rests with God Alone.

Islam is the surrender of one's will and purpose to God. It is also based on loving and giving to the needy, the orphan, the way-farer, the kinsfolk and whoever is in need.

2:83 And (remember) when We made a covenant with the Children of Israel, (saying): Worship none save Allah (only), and be good to parents and to kindred and to orphans and the needy, and speak kindly to mankind; and establish worship and pay the poor due. Then, after that, ye slid back, save a few of you, being averse.

57:18 Lo! those who give alms, both men and women, and lend unto Allah a goodly loan, it will be doubled for them, and theirs will be a rich reward.

You encourage giving, that is good, but to encourage mankind to worship none but God ONLY, that is better.

Muslims defend God's Unity, while Idolaters fight for the sake of their idols.

29:17 Ye serve instead of Allah only idols, and ye only invent a lie. Lo! those whom ye serve instead of Allah own no provision for you. So seek your provision from Allah, and serve Him, and give thanks unto Him, (for) unto Him ye will be brought back. -

What did Jesus say concerning the people who ascribe partners to God?

5:72 They surely disbelieve who say : Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said : O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evildoers there will be no helpers.

I have a prophecy for you and those who are of the same mind as you, which if God wills will come to pass soon, unless you repent.

15:2 It will come to pass that those who disbelieve wish ardently that they were Muslims.

15:3 Let them eat and enjoy life, and let false hope beguile them. They will come to know!

and 15:8 We send not down the angels save with the Fact, and in that case the disbelievers would not be tolerated.

Stop debarring people from the way of God .Cease and repent, it will be better for you!



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 03:12 AM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 




Context needs to be founded on a premise. I also try to avoid incorrect premise. Instead, I use verbal judo.


Verbal judo? Is that another term for dodging questions and points?
How about we read the biblical narrative for what it is...and stick to the premise of the scriptures in question.'



The answer to 1 was provided in Galatians 3 and can be found as the main point of all scripture.


First, you address a simple yes/no question "Do you agree that the bible teaches that keeping the "law" is equated with righteousness?" with a diversion by quoting Paul.

Second, are you seriously telling me that Galatians 3 is that important... as the main point of all scripture? Even the words of God and Jesus?

Im getting the impression that you feel Pauls teachings overrides what God, the prophets and Jesus taught about the law.




18 May it please you to prosper Zion,
to build up the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then you will delight in the sacrifices of the righteous,
in burnt offerings offered whole;
then bulls will be offered on your altar.


Psalms 51 is a prayer for forgiveness.
The central theme of that particular Psalm is repentance to God....and has nothing to do with animal sacrifices for forgiveness.


10 Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
so that sinners will turn back to you.
14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
you who are God my Savior,
and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.
15 Open my lips, Lord,
and my mouth will declare your praise.
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.





edit on 16-8-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 03:17 AM
link   
reply to post by queenofangels_17
 



Jesus cannot save any soul that God does not will to save, that you may know that decision rests with God Alone.


This is true.

Jesus himself says "I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who has sent me."

Its there in the bible, yet verses like these are deliberately ignored by christians... because it doesn't sit well with their theology that Jesus is God.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:40 AM
link   
reply to post by queenofangels_17
 




-Islam - Based on death and destruction by taking over nations in the name of God. Pure mirror to the will of God.

Sorry, Enochwasright, but 2.1 Billion Muslims disagree with you.

Are you sure you're describing Islam and not some Country, say for Example America or Israel, only let's take the name of God out of it, because they do it for their own vile agenda and their false gods.

You talk about Thieves and their fruits, I say this is your fruit, bias and self-righteousness.


You premise is incorrect by the perspective of Love and how a gift is given. It must first be earned or received, but not taken. Taking is not earning or receiving the gift. We are all sinners as you describe, not just Islam or Christianity. We are equally charged under the law. The Law is for the thief, not the one following the law. What is the law? Love. They are part of the original family of Abraham. The path to becoming part of this family is not a work done here on Earth, but a work done FOR us by Christ. Read this post: LINK

In the simplest way I can, I then show this from the standpoint of tyranny and liberty. Tyranny restricts the choice of a human being from liberty and freedom, disallowing what God himself gave mankind--free will to choose. Liberty and Freedom is the alternative that allows a person to see that the Law can only be fulfilled by the one giving the gift, not the one taking the gift. A gift must be earned and then sent forward. If you read the first link carefully, you will then have what you need to see the second link by context. If you do not consider what is said, you will miss the point I made in the opening. Thread 2 for you to examine.

We are ALL sinners equally. We each come to God first. It's not about what we can do, but what has been done for us. Islam is setup as a thief rather than the one giving the gift. It seeks to take it first, then give it away. Like so many religion that are set to earn their way to Heaven, even Christianity misses the point in many ways. Seeking God for reward is duplicity. What are we after? Seeking God to avoid judgement is duplicity. What are we really trying to do in this case? If it does not first start with a love for other, God being one of the others, then it is taking the name in vain. God's name is the character. If we take the name and not the character, we take it in vain. Can you earn this in perfection, rising to the life of Christ as demonstrated? Not in a million years. We are all sinners every day. God demands perfection. When we take on the name of Christ, God sees His Son and not our imperfection. He is our advocate with the Father and no religion can do this for you. It's Christ and Christ alone.

The perfect will of God is to give and receive only. God takes, only to give it away again in a proper context. He is the ONLY one able to take. We cannot. We must receive or earn. Earning is required to then give what is earned back with a proper context to God's will. God is the Judge, not mankind. Satan steals, kills and destroys to get his way because he is the Father of lies and is the prime thief. Know them by their fruit.

I hope you see it in the pictures (Thread 2). Did Jesus have a message to man? Yes. It was a gospel of love to fulfill law, not more law. The requirements of the Law in the Sermon on the Mount were for Him to fulfill the law, a job we cannot do. How are you coming on being a perfect non-sinner? You can't and neither can I. Not apart from Christ doing it first and giving it to us as an example to follow.

The rest of your post is based on a false premise that you can see if you seek and knock on the correct door. There is great value in all perspectives, but not if pride in your own theology (box) is the primary focus. God cannot be put in a box. When we do, he simply takes us out of ours until we see Love in proper context to our beliefs.



edit on 16-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:38 PM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Islam is setup as a thief rather than the one giving the gift. It seeks to take it first, then give it away. Like so many religion that are set to earn their way to Heaven, even Christianity misses the point in many ways. Seeking God for reward is duplicity. What are we after? Seeking God to avoid judgement is duplicity. What are we really trying to do in this case? If it does not first start with a love for other, God being one of the others, then it is taking the name in vain. God's name is the character. If we take the name and not the character, we take it in vain. Can you earn this in perfection, rising to the life of Christ as demonstrated? Not in a million years. We are all sinners every day. God demands perfection. When we take on the name of Christ, God sees His Son and not our imperfection. He is our advocate with the Father and no religion can do this for you. It's Christ and Christ alone. .

Please clarify how Islam is set up as a thief rather than the one giving the gift. Of all Abrahamic faiths, Islam is the ONLY ONE who faithfully follows the religion of Abraham, who was not an idolater.

The tenets of Islam is clear, to worship God, and to believe in the Messengers whom He has sent. To do good and eschew evil , to love for his brother what he loves for himself, when we commit a sin, to repent and not knowingly commit the same offense. Islam is a whole way of life as designed by God for His people. Muslims do not feel as if they are oppressed by a Tyrannous God, rather they feel blessed for being guided into the right religion, away from darkness and away from serving idols.

You said that Jesus came to fulfill the Law, but that's a corrupted passage, because as I live and by the One who holds my soul in His Hands. Jesus did not say that he came to fulfill the Law, rather what he said was, I came to observe the Law.

***

Then answered John: 'Master let us wash ourselves as God commanded by Moses.'

Jesus said: 'Think ye that I am come to destroy the law and the prophets? Verily I say unto you, as God liveth, I am not come to destroy it, but rather to observe it. For every prophet hath observed the law of God and all that God by the other prophets hath spoken. As God liveth, in whose presence my soul standeth, no one that breaketh one least precept can be pleasing to God, but shall be least in the kingdom of God, for he shall have no part there. Moreover I say unto you, the one syllable of the law of God cannot be broken without the gravest sin.

See how your corruptions of God's words, make Jesus a man of God, suddenly with just one word, become one who fulfilled the Law? instead of just observing the Law?, making him to be more than he is, so that your idolatrous hearts will be content!

Didn't Jesus say that the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to another Nation bringing forth the fruits thereof? That fruit is REPENTANCE, like I said. Muslims repent to God more than a hundred times per day in their prayers. While you self-righteous people think you have no need to repent, we Muslims acknowledge that we sin everyday and pray God to forgive us and have mercy on us.

Jesus in his gospel said..

." For the time draweth near when that shall be done of which our God spoke by Hosea the prophet, saying: "I will call chosen the people not chosen." And as he saith in Ezekiel the prophet: "God shall make a new covenant with his people, not according to the covenant which he gave to your fathers, which they observed not and he shall take from them a heart of stone, and give them a new heart": and all this shall be because ye walk not now in his law. And ye have the key and open not: rather do ye block the road for those who would walk in it.'

God made a new Covenant with the Children of Ismael, who were said to have a heart of stone and has given them a new heart. And this because the Children of Israel would not walk in His Law, they were rebellious then and even more now.

If Islam was a religion established by man, it would fail, but since Islam is the religion sent down by God to His people from Adam to now then it will succeed, however much idolaters may be averse.

9:33He it is who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.

God does not demand perfection, what he demands is a pure heart. One does not need an advocate if he has a pure heart, that is one who worships God ONLY.
edit on 16-8-2012 by queenofangels_17 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 04:34 PM
link   
The main point of all scripture is that mankind is to mirror God with will. We are to give and receive, but never take. Galatians 3 answers the paradox of this requirement. We cannot fulfill the law. Law is a guardian until faith came. Faith is the process of God work in us. Until we recognize His authority, the law is not sending us closer to God. It's purpose was to show us the value of faith and love for fulfilling the law.

Again, your questions are based on false premise. I am simply answering with correct premise.

As for Verbal Judo, it is required reading for nearly 90% of law enforcement. It is one of the finest books written for keeping the high ground of a conversation by removing bias, condescension and anger. George Thompson's thesis statement is: "Speak for the other person in the manner in which they should be speaking for themselves."

Your mention of Paul is a pretext in this case. Your question of my view of Paul assumes your cloaking of your true intention. Instead, simply tell me what you think of Paul and don't rely on me taking the bait. Paul and Jesus do not disagree. Jesus words clearly describe what it takes for perfection in fulfilling the law. Mankind cannot do this apart from the Holy Spirit that Jesus possessed. Right now, the Spirit is the comforter to us. In time, we will receive it as a crown. As Christ is, so shall we be. Paul rightly points out that we cannot do the job of Christ ourselves. It's a goal, yet not ours to own. If it was ours and possible for us to claim, then Christ was not needed.

Again, I am simply showing you a premise based on the larger picture and not a single part of the story. An overall context can be seen if the entire story is approached from all sides. Galatians 3 is a good place to see the entire picture from beginning to end.


Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 




Context needs to be founded on a premise. I also try to avoid incorrect premise. Instead, I use verbal judo.


Verbal judo? Is that another term for dodging questions and points?
How about we read the biblical narrative for what it is...and stick to the premise of the scriptures in question.'



The answer to 1 was provided in Galatians 3 and can be found as the main point of all scripture.


First, you address a simple yes/no question "Do you agree that the bible teaches that keeping the "law" is equated with righteousness?" with a diversion by quoting Paul.

Second, are you seriously telling me that Galatians 3 is that important... as the main point of all scripture? Even the words of God and Jesus?

Im getting the impression that you feel Pauls teachings overrides what God, the prophets and Jesus taught about the law.




18 May it please you to prosper Zion,
to build up the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then you will delight in the sacrifices of the righteous,
in burnt offerings offered whole;
then bulls will be offered on your altar.


Psalms 51 is a prayer for forgiveness.
The central theme of that particular Psalm is repentance to God....and has nothing to do with animal sacrifices for forgiveness.


10 Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
so that sinners will turn back to you.
14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
you who are God my Savior,
and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.
15 Open my lips, Lord,
and my mouth will declare your praise.
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.





edit on 16-8-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 04:54 PM
link   
reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


Honesty is part of credibility. A lie reveals Satan's path. Your quote is not a translation that is listed on the internet. You, or someone else, has intentionally mistranslated scripture. You lose all credibility doing this.

Your quote:

"Jesus said: 'Think ye that I am come to destroy the law and the prophets? Verily I say unto you, as God liveth, I am not come to destroy it, but rather to observe it. For every prophet hath observed the law of God and all that God by the other prophets hath spoken. As God liveth, in whose presence my soul standeth, no one that breaketh one least precept can be pleasing to God, but shall be least in the kingdom of God, for he shall have no part there. Moreover I say unto you, the one syllable of the law of God cannot be broken without the gravest sin."

This is Matthew 5 with STRONGS numbers from the CORRECT translation.

Mat 5:17

Think 3543 not 3361 that 3754 I am come 2064 to destroy 2647 the law 3551, or 2228 the prophets 4396: I am 2064 0 not 3756 come 2064 to destroy 2647 , but 235 to fulfil 4137.

Mat 5:18 For 1063 verily 281 I say 3004 unto you 5213, Till 2193 302 heaven 3772 and 2532 earth 1093 pass 3928 , one 1520 jot 2503 or 2228 one 3391 tittle 2762 shall in no wise 3364 pass 3928 from 575 the law 3551, till 2193 302 all 3956 be fulfilled 1096 .

Fulfil 4137 - to make complete in every particular, to render perfect.

Fulfilled 1096 - to be made, finished.

Jesus did what we cannot do. You will not be free from Sin on your own. You can try, but you have just demonstrated a lie that shows your position with the rest of us sinners. Jesus was the sacrifice for us and HE alone fulfills the law. Your own messenger, the one you claim, has a gospel and it's not the fabrication that you tried to insert here today. You only deceive yourself.









edit on 16-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 06:41 PM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



Honesty is part of credibility. A lie reveals Satan's path. Your quote is not a translation that is listed on the internet. You, or someone else, has intentionally mistranslated scripture. You lose all credibility doing this.

It should be listed in the internet to have credibility? Do you realize how that sounds?

You think the Books that were hidden in Rome, or hidden in the libraries of your most learned priests and Rabbis are published in the internet? Why do you think they are hiding it?

I have not mistranslated the Scripture, it is the exact words as spoken by Jesus.

I speak the Truth, to reveal the lies in your Scripture, which you take as God's true words, but instead the words of Satan, who seek to turn men away from worshipping their True God.

If I'm lying, then why are you worshipping Jesus instead of God? Shouldn't the Scripture if it is truly God's words be teaching men to love and worship God Alone, with all their mind and heart and soul?

I dare you to produce the original Torah, written by the hand of Moses and Joshua, and then we will see who is lying.

Is there any Prophet of God who did not act according to the Law of God as He has revealed in the Book of Moses?

Surely none, just as Jesus said. Except for false prophets like Paul, who made away with the The Law of God and replaced it with the doctrine of salvation through the blood of Christ, a false and evil doctrine.


Jesus said: "Think you perhaps that God has created his Messenger to be a rival, who should be fain to make himself equal with God? Assuredly not, but rather as his good slave, who should not will that which his Lord wills not. You are not able to understand this because you know not what a thing is sin. Wherefore hearken to my words. Truly, truly, I say to you, sin cannot arise in man save as a contradiction of God, seeing that only is sin which God wills not: insomuch that all that God wills is most alien from sin.

Accordingly, if our high-priests and priests, with the Pharisees, persecuted me because the people of Israel has called me God, they would be doing a thing pleasing to God, and God would reward them; but because they persecute me for a contrary reason, since they will not have me say the truth, how they have contaminated the Book of Moses; and that of David, prophets and friends of God, by their traditions, and therefore hate me and desire my death therefore God has them in abomination. Tell me, Moses slew men and Ahab slew men, is this in each case murder? Assuredly not; for Moses slew the men to destroy idolatry and to preserve the worship of the true God, but Ahab slew the men to destroy the worship of the true God and to preserve idolatry. Wherefore to Moses the slaying of men was converted into sacrifice, while to Ahab it was converted into sacrilege: insomuch that one and the same work produced these two contrary effects.

"As God lives, in whose presence my soul stands, if Satan had spoken to the angels in order to see how they loved God, he would not have been rejected of God, but because he sought to turn them away from God, therefore is he reprobate."

If you want to be a teacher, then you must first learn to be a pupil. If you want to learn, learn it from someone who fears God the most.
Have you heard that Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom? It should be credible enough for you, as it is found in the internet.

2:269 He giveth wisdom unto whom He will, and he unto whom wisdom is given, he truly hath received abundant good. But none remember except men of understanding.
edit on 16-8-2012 by queenofangels_17 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2012 @ 06:45 AM
link   
reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


Show us the translation you are using. I did a search in quotes for a few or your passages and there are no versions that I can find. ALL versions are on the internet. The one I referenced had Strongs numbers from the original Greek. The keywords have been changed in the version you are using to reflect a twisting of scripture. Like I said, your credibility here is lost.



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join