HIDING! Seeking Experienced Military on where to hide in town?

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
I'm not really sure why American troops are sent through cities in various countries we bomb, but I can't imagine what might go on behind the scenes. A co-worker of mine who re-enlists often "likes knives a little too much" and generally can't wait to get shipped back over. I could imagine him coming into my house

In going from house to house "looking for bad guys" how long does it take? Does just anyone get killed or do you usually have intel and a names list? If a person's name IS on that list is it ransack the house and neighbors til you find him or her?
Would hiding help (or only running)?

I would hope if it comes down to troops doing a door to door search and they are kicking in my door that they are all carrying knives!.

Originally posted by murphy22
In this scenario you would have to assume a military is involved. Or a para.
One of the first things a military force worth its salt would do is prohibit all civilain movement. War history shows us you can't have a mass exodus of civilians blocking avenues of aproach and exit. The best thing to do is, like a nother said, "Not be there when it happens."

You can count on being found if it is you they are looking for. You will only recieve "special treatment" if they find you while "hiding". Sounds blunt, but those are the cold hard facts.

Best thing anyone can do is find a property with a long driveway. And "plan" from there. Depending on what you are hiding from..... either way in this scenario, it sounds as if you will be in some sort of combat. You only have to decide what is worth dying or living for.

Not wrong but not right either.. Depends where you live and how stretched the military are.. They have limited resources so if they are engaged in combat too, and you live in a city, they could only sweep small sections at a time and you having the home advantage could plan your route out of line of sight of them.. Cities are huge undertakings, they require a few divisions and even that wont cover it.. You just have to be smart..

Originally posted by crazyguy2012
If someone hostile approaches them can you take them out silently without being seen?

Do you even appreciate how difficult it is to do this? I've met experienced assaulters, who train extensively in this form of combat - it would be almost impossible for an untrained civilian to do this, let alone contemplate or train for it.

reply to post by crazyguy2012


In this scenario a soldier would secure his family first. When operating alone and without support you do what you can, when you can. But you don't commit suicide. If and only if, you can insure your family is safe would you carry back the fight. Movies and reality are defferent, I can assure you. And bullets make an eye openning sound in real life.

reply to post by ExCommando


You may have to withdraw from time to time... But you would eventually have to face the enemy... You should know how difficult it is to go into a foreign city and take out the combatants.... However, in this situation you are describing we will be the combatants defending our cities. It would have to be a very large force... The only thing I could think of is an alien invasion... China? not big enough... Russia and China? still too small. Just taking over Florida for example would take a military of at least 10 million soldiers, thousands of tanks, air support, naval forces...

Florida- population 20 million.
The city of Miami alone as 1,100 police officers. Then you have miami dade county police, south miami police, homestead police, Hialeah police, Hialeah gardens, etc... You have quite a few local army reserve bases... each college has its own police force... Highway patrol, etc... Not to mention all the armed civilians in florida... a few airforce bases, a few naval bases...

You are talking about a completely dominating force... The only nation to try it was England in 1812... They invaded with three large armies. They had a few initial successes but eventually had their asses handed to them...

reply to post by ExCommando


again you are talking about a military force. I would not suggest any civilian try to take on trained military. More would come. I am talking about the local neighborhood thugs... Assuming you live in a bad area. I think we are both on a completely different page here.

You are assuming something that is almost impossible. You are also assuming everyone can run and hide in advance. It might be possible for you and me but not for everyone. Sticking together is probably the best bet in your worst case scenario. If everyone runs it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

reply to post by EvanB


I agree I did not cover every angle. Is it a foreign or domestic threat? Domestic would have "road blocks", "check points"... etc, in place. Sure, many factors would be in play and you would not have the advantage of intel, other than what you can see or hear.
There are a lot of variables to consider. Especialy if you have your family tagging along. Not that thats wrong. But it ups the stakes.

reply to post by crazyguy2012


This is an assumptive discussion - IMO the chances of the OP's scenario coming true are extremely unlikely.

To be honest - I would not stick together with other people. There is no strength in numbers in either a foreign invasion force or a collapse of society.

If you band together with prearranged people who can strengthen your position, then so be it - a small, highly skilled group of like minded survivalists would be good ... but corralling your neighbours and other members of the public = failure.

Originally posted by murphy22
reply to post by crazyguy2012

 

In this scenario a soldier would secure his family first. When operating alone and without support you do what you can, when you can. But you don't commit suicide. If and only if, you can insure your family is safe would you carry back the fight. Movies and reality are defferent, I can assure you. And bullets make an eye openning sound in real life.

But not everyone is a soldier. Most are civilians. Most of us have families. trying to bug out on foot with your wife an infant and five year old? good luck with that... You have to know it will happen way in advance... Which according to many people on here was last week, a couple of months ago, last year, yesterday, tomorrow, next week, october, november, December..... Hopefully if it does happen it will have to happen somewhere first so you can get out of dodge... But if you are at ground zero.. stay put and move when its safe. Only those on the ground will know when it is safe. You kinda have to trust your instincts. But now is a good time to develop those instincts.

reply to post by crazyguy2012


For sake of argument.

A foreign force would only put boots on the ground once they have domination of the air space, and have crippled or destroyed the key strategic and military posts on the ground.

Once this happens, you are talking about untrained civilians attempting to re-take or hold a city against a superior foreign force, with air superiority?

Originally posted by ExCommando
reply to post by crazyguy2012

 

This is an assumptive discussion - IMO the chances of the OP's scenario coming true are extremely unlikely.

To be honest - I would not stick together with other people. There is no strength in numbers in either a foreign invasion force or a collapse of society.

If you band together with prearranged people who can strengthen your position, then so be it - a small, highly skilled group of like minded survivalists would be good ... but corralling your neighbours and other members of the public = failure.

Then you have not studied history and you will not survive long. You need doctors, dentists... Or do you not care about having all of your teeth? Plus not all of society is not bad. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life having to prepare for two hours to take a hot shower or bath. You will miss turning a nob and viola hot water...

Roughing it can be fun for a while but eventually it will get old... Will you want to sleep with your beautiful wife when she smells like the pig you are raising for food... yuck.... We will have to come together to rebuild things eventually. The sooner we start working on it the better.

reply to post by crazyguy2012

I have heard anecdotally that many (from surveys) who will not obey orders to fire on americans are being weeded out. Also it is easy to fire on people if they are shooting at your (esp if they fire first). Lastly, the govt knows that they will not have total compliance and surely have a contingent plan to bring in foreign (UN) troops who will do what US troops have done in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Scenarios of shtf differ and I would think confusion would be prevalent.

I have been through a shtf scenario.
Hurricane.
But ,during that we came together and helped each other out at that time and place.
A few weeks without power,lots of cutting up trees and clearing roadways,lots of bbqs to cook all the meat in everyone's freezers.
Lots of warm beer.

Depends on the situation.

I would say access your environment,your neighbors and so on and judge it from there.
If immediate danger is present or imminent,then by all means,evacuate.
Scope out areas that could be safe havens outside the urban areas,like staging areas to gather your thoughts,resources and make plans.

Originally posted by ExCommando
reply to post by crazyguy2012

 

For sake of argument.

A foreign force would only put boots on the ground once they have domination of the air space, and have crippled or destroyed the key strategic and military posts on the ground.

Once this happens, you are talking about untrained civilians attempting to re-take or hold a city against a superior foreign force, with air superiority?

The force you talk about does not exist as far as I am aware... If such a force was amassed we would nuke their homeland before they could deploy. It would be mutual destruction.... Then we would all just be struggling to survive and the first to rebuild society and armies would rule the other... That would take years...

The only plausible scenario would be an alien invasion. With that all bets are off. I have no idea how any type of combat whether its urban warfare, air to air, naval, etc... would play out. It is a complete unknown...

Text Redreply to post by crazyguy2012

This is not a predator movie, lol

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by crazyguy2012

 

I have heard anecdotally that many (from surveys) who will not obey orders to fire on americans are being weeded out. Also it is easy to fire on people if they are shooting at your (esp if they fire first). Lastly, the govt knows that they will not have total compliance and surely have a contingent plan to bring in foreign (UN) troops who will do what US troops have done in Iraq and Afghanistan.

edit on 13-8-2012 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

There are many soldiers who would likely fire upon civilians once or twice. But in the long term it wouldn't last. Every soldier has a hometown where they know everyone...

Originally posted by crazyguy2012

Originally posted by ExCommando
reply to post by crazyguy2012

 

This is an assumptive discussion - IMO the chances of the OP's scenario coming true are extremely unlikely.

To be honest - I would not stick together with other people. There is no strength in numbers in either a foreign invasion force or a collapse of society.

If you band together with prearranged people who can strengthen your position, then so be it - a small, highly skilled group of like minded survivalists would be good ... but corralling your neighbours and other members of the public = failure.

Then you have not studied history and you will not survive long. You need doctors, dentists... Or do you not care about having all of your teeth? Plus not all of society is not bad. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life having to prepare for two hours to take a hot shower or bath. You will miss turning a nob and viola hot water...

Roughing it can be fun for a while but eventually it will get old... Will you want to sleep with your beautiful wife when she smells like the pig you are raising for food... yuck.... We will have to come together to rebuild things eventually. The sooner we start working on it the better.

Which is why 99.9% of people would die in this scenario. It's the people like myself, with the real life experience and training, which would survive and flourish.

And yes, I have been in country when governments fall and anarchy reigns (East Timor and Afghanistan). If this is not enough history to make a statement on, then I would be more than happy for you to provide me with your experience, backed up by real life experience or knowledge.

reply to post by Foxybrain


Which is my point mi amor...

reply to post by crazyguy2012


It is a terrible thought really. But the fact you think of it, shows you love your family very much. I can honestly say a soldier looks at things very different and vets do not fear the same things others would. But I can say their family would be the first thing on their mind in such a case.
There are so many, what ifs, should you find, you and yours in an occupied area. Number one would be don't draw fire or attention to yourself. Evade and exscape would be number two. But if there is some sort of order and security you may not want to leave. Just a thought. Unless you plan on becoming a combatant, skilled or not. Staying In a military occupied area may be not so unsafe for you and yours, all depends.

If your talking riots? Button down at home and defend whats yours. I don't know, what I would do for me, may not be good for you. But do plan and let your family know what that plan is. Should you have to use it you'll all be on the same sheet of music.

I am a trained soldier, so what I would do depends on what cards I'm dealt at the time. But always live to fight another day.

reply to post by ExCommando


I have nothing to prove... I am just saying do you really want to live like one of the civilians in Afghanistan for an extended period?

Of course if something like this did happen the death toll would be great. Nut just from the conflicts but heart attacks, cancer, blood pressure, even routine cuts and scratches can become deadly. Sure you might have a stockpile of antibiotics but those will eventually go bad. You will get older... Your back or knees will give out... Remember we have our long lifespans due to medical advances. A hundred years ago 35 was considered old. 45 and you were at deaths door...

We will be much better off working to hold things together...