HIDING! Seeking Experienced Military on where to hide in town?

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posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by murphy22
 


The art of camouflage is not to hide, but to blend in. Hiding is merely a by-product of camo.




posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein
I have two main interests in this:
1) I have a four year old daughter so bugging out will be harder than otherwise,
2) my wife flat out denies, no matter what happens, that anything bad will ever happen in America. Getting her to bug out will not happen until the internet goes down, the TVs shut off, and she starts hearing gunfire


... I suppose it could be a spur of the moment "camping trip" though!


I have thought of this too and in a similar situation.

I'm close to the city,but more the urban suburb you might say and it is heavily wooded with ,lets say,tall hills.
I figure the natives would keep busy for a few days down the hill where all the food is before trying to make they're way up in my area.

I don't have to go far ,like a couple of hundred yards,to be "camping",out of sight.
I can secure my house temporarily against intruders,but not for long..
My house is made of stone,built 50 years ago with a walkout basement.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by Thermo Klein
 


Hahaha! Touche my friend.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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The silver thermo blankets stop heat.
So get to the middle of the house and put up the blankets on the outer walls.
You need to shield the windows the most.
And it’s best to put your inner doors over the Inside of the windows.
You don’t want it to look like you are barricading your home from the outside.
Make shore No light can get out.
A good thing you can do is take out the stairs and use a ladder.
Have a look to see how much room you have under the down stairs floor boards.
See if you can dig it out and hide down there.
I have found some priver land that I can get to.
And I have built a small bunker. Three feet of earth on top.
And a strong hidden door.
You need to hide your food in lots of places.
If any one sees you use it. You only lose a little.
Hide and keep very quiet.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 


I wasn't meaning in the middle of a giant city like new york or L A. I was meaning a city the size of mine Indianapolis. I did excavation for a couple of years, there are many colverts and storm drains around here that terminate in nothing but smaller and smaller pipes, not to mention the low o2 levels. We can't even enter one until we take o2 readings, and even then, we had to use a life line as somtimes the situation changes fast, and it is better the be hauled out by the line unconscious than it is to leave in a hurse.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein
I have two main interests in this:
1) I have a four year old daughter so bugging out will be harder than otherwise,
2) my wife flat out denies, no matter what happens, that anything bad will ever happen in America. Getting her to bug out will not happen until the internet goes down, the TVs shut off, and she starts hearing gunfire


... I suppose it could be a spur of the moment "camping trip" though!


You can only do that if you know SHTF in advance. Plus you have the same problems I do. Four kids and a wife to think about. It is not so easy to just bug out whenever the weather gets bad... You probably would have an even more difficult time getting your wife to go on a spur of the moment camping trip more than once or twice. If bugging out is not an option you have to bug in. Keeping enough supplies at home to survive several weeks is not that difficult. A few big bags of rice and beans. 5 gallon Collapsible water jugs... a big cooler... a charcoal grill... Etc...

Knowing your neighbors is not a bad idea either. Ten FAMILIES (10x 3.5= 35 people) working together helping each other is a pretty formidable force. Twenty (or more) families working together is even better. You could have a small army taking turns finding and cooking food, collecting and purifying water, providing shelter and security. I cannot imagine an "american" force forcefully removing a hundred men women and small children who are not posing an immediate threat. I know there is a great sense of distrust of the government on ATS but at some point the government will be needed. (or at least a new government)

Note: if there is no running water you can fill a bucket with water and pour it into your toilet to flush it... I wouldn't use drinking water you need to save that. but you can use pool water or water from a nearby lake, river, stream etc...



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 


I wasn't meaning in the middle of a giant city like new york or L A. I was meaning a city the size of mine Indianapolis. I did excavation for a couple of years, there are many colverts and storm drains around here that terminate in nothing but smaller and smaller pipes, not to mention the low o2 levels. We can't even enter one until we take o2 readings, and even then, we had to use a life line as somtimes the situation changes fast, and it is better the be hauled out by the line unconscious than it is to leave in a hurse.


This most likely would be a bad idea. Even in a big city. Toxic fumes... rats. insects..mud... raw sewage. Maybe a good hiding spot for a very brief time until the coast is clear but not for any duration of time. You will end up getting very very sick. I would leave living in the sewers to ninja turtles... This is not a place to go... Especially for women and small children...



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:06 PM
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As excommando.stated, being in an urban/city environment when TSHTF is the last place you ever want to be for any extended period what so ever, and by extended period I mean 24hrs Max, 12 is the ideal maximum timeframe. Urban survival plus close quarter combat equals imminent death 98% of the time.

As a former US Navy SWCC Operator I have extensive training in survival, urban CQC, guerilla tactics and SERE training and even with that the last place I want to be for any extended period in an urban setting. I have a plan in place for myself and my family in the event of such a scenario and we have preset rendezvous points established in the event we are seperated at the time of an event.

Regardless of where you are located or the size of the city you are in you can feasibly bug out rather quickly if you are planned and prepared. Remember, failing to prepare is preparing to fail. Even if you are unable to to use a vehicle, worst case scenario you can hoof it out of town in 24 hrs tops. Remember also that for everyday you spend in a metropolitan urban area you cut your chances of survival by 25%.

Forget the idea of "hunkering down" in your home, neighborhood, or suburb, if you choose to do this then save yourself alot of money and planning, instead buy one bullet and use it on yourself when TSHTF, you'll save yourself a lot of unnecessary suffering. I know that may sound cold but you asked for advice and I'm trying to be as honest as possible and give you some real usable advice without blowing smoke up your hindside.

In a SHTF urban scenario you not only have to worry about the initial SHTF scenario but also the secondary lateral scenarios of looting, riots, armed gangs, and disease. To put it in perspective just look at the violence in metro and urban areas in our "stable" society now. Now just imagine what it would be like with no civil services including law enforcement, fire and healthcare services, food, water, electricity, or god forbid internet
. It will turn into a Mad Max or Book of Eli scenario nearly overnight. Best case scenario for food and water availability would be 5 days max.

My suggestion to anyone living in urban areas is to recon the outlying areas near where you live that could be a feasible intermediate staging area where you can rest, gather your thoughts and senses,and get mentally acclimated to what you are about to endure. Next start putting together a good bailout bag and include for the most part only the bare necessities. Add too much to your bag and you'll be sorry half way through your bug out trip.

A good start that I would recommend for getting an idea on what you will need in your bag would be the US Army Survival Manual FM 21-76, US Military Pocket Survival Guide Plus Evasion and Recovery (this manual is included the survival kits of all US Military branches), US Navy SERE Training Manual, or SAS Survival Guide. You can find all of the military manuals online in PDF format or on Amazon.

The amount of gear you need in your BoB will depend on your own personal abilities and training, my suggestion for a BOB is 2 days change of socks and underwear, 3 days worth of food and water with a weeks worth of high Carb snacks, a good knife, first aid kit, a couple of rat traps (can catch some tasty critters with them if your not proficient at trap building), a small spool of braided fishing line-30lb test (many uses), some fish hooks (can be used for catching more than just fish), good firestarter of your choice, tetraglycine hydroperiodide tablets to purify water (should still boil), and protection from elements (depends on your location). You can add to this depending on your own personal needs.

I would also include a weapon of some type, not just for defense but procurement of much needed food. Once you arrive in your predetermined staging are you will be able to procure food from the various resources available. In choosing a weapon think functionality, for a firearm my choices would be a small, lightweight long gun such as mini14, Ruger 10/22, Winchester 30-30 or 44-40 brushgun, or shotgun, just remember keep it light and compact, conserve ammo and only use when needed. Other weapon choices would be bow, slingshot, or spear.

Your biggest tool in survival is your ability to remain calm, keep a level head, and use your brain. Remember also when forced to survive you may have to let go of some of your civility and rely on your animal instincts but you should always stay connected to your humanity or you will be Jo better than those you are trying to escape. After all we are all animals, if you will thing like an animal you will find that food sources are everywhere, grasses, insects, berries, animals, the list goes on.

The will to live is your best tool and expectations are your worst enemy. As the ancient Chinese saying goes, "expectations are the source of all unhappiness.
edit on 13-8-2012 by Nucleardiver because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by watchitburn
 


I'm not concerned as me specifically being the target - more curious about a general house-to-house warlike search.

Good info so far! Glad to hear the thermal scanners aren't like on TV



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Nucleardiver
 


That all depends upon where you are. You are also assuming everyone will be a hostile combatant. If you live in Manhattan for example. You have no chance of bugging out... not with your wife and kids... It would take more than 3 days to walk out... and I would assume driving out would be impossible... It is impossible to drive there as it is in a SNAFU... Well the driving there is always SNAFU.

Same for a lot of other cities like LA, Boston, etc.... If i lived in any of these areas I would just live in denial... I live in a pretty urban area but very rural areas are only a twenty minute drive. Actually in twenty minutes I would be in the middle of the swamp...

You forget also that you have been dealing with trained combatants... Or at least indoctrinated radicals. These people are not likely to retreat... Even the biggest thugs in the states are pretty much P&##ies... A couple gun shots and the ones left standing will abandon their "friends" and will run away to look for easier prey..
As long as you are not trying to loot or break into someones property you will probably be okay...

Again not talking about a truly urban environment... I just would live there... period. I am even hesitant to visit one at the moment.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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You need to get out of urban environments asap in a shtf situation..

Some basic infantry fieldcraft would not go amiss either.

E.g.

To remain unseen, do not skyline yourself on hills you will sillouette yourself, learn to spot and use dead ground, learn how to apply cam, and remember to change natural foilage cam to fit with local vegetation so you dont stick out. Best time to bug out is at dawn or dusk, the reason is the light frequency make you harder to see.. Stay away from roads.. Plan your route before hand to a safe rv where you can plan your next move.. Move silently and slowley.. Fast movement catches the eye.. Check your clothing for shiny stuff for the same reason.. Vary the suface of your clothing, change your outline so you dont look obviously human (a ghillie suit). Move through woods or covered areas rather than open ground to avoid aircraft..

Basic infantry cam and concealment.. Still works today



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Nucleardiver
 


Very well put.

I trained almost exclusively in urban warfare / CQB and counter insurgency warfare.

You. Do. Not. Want. To. Be. In. An. Urban. Environment.

If we're looking at a scenario of a foreign army being in a position to do house by house sweeps, they have already decimated the ground / air force of the invaded country, so you can expect minimal support.

In this instance, there will be small pockets of resistance fighters (special forces teams), whose role will be to disrupt and impede the enemies goals - in short, very dirty, unconventional warfare, that you do not want to be in the middle of.

The response from the invading force will be overpowering force. Say, for example, a small resistance sniper team secures their OP in a house in your neighbourhood and starts harassing the enemy force. The enemy force would, by all accounts, drop a bunker buster on the whole neighborhood.

Forget what you have seen in survivalist movies, where the hero slips from house to house and avoids the robotic enemy force - it won't happen.

If you are concerned, it is in your best interest to start looking at groups that offer advice on prepping for situations like this - there's PLENTY out there.

I'm from Australia, so it's not so big a thing, but I've done some research and there's an absolute wealth of information on the net that you can find.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by crazyguy2012

Originally posted by Thermo Klein



I cannot imagine an "american" force forcefully removing a hundred men women and small children who are not posing an immediate threat.


If your area is targeted for quarantine or evacuation (ie to Camp Fema) they will bring in the troop trucks and your group will be loaded up. If you fire on them then they will unload on you and yours.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein
reply to post by watchitburn
 


I'm not concerned as me specifically being the target - more curious about a general house-to-house warlike search.

Good info so far! Glad to hear the thermal scanners aren't like on TV


This isn't likely to happen. It would take too much resources. It has happened in other countries during coupes, hostile takeovers, etc... In that type of situation we would all have to stand together and fight or bug out and wait for them to come get you. I would prefer to stay and fight... Freedom is worth dying for.

In the event of a major disaster the government would probably set up stations that you would have to find a way to get to where they would then transport you to some type of camp. They would possibly send small search parties to neighborhoods to collect survivors but I doubt they would actually take the time and effort to go door to door. There are only so many "die hard" Special Forces type troops who would be trained and/or willing to do this. I hate to say this but most soldiers are lazy... So are most police officers... Going door to door and searching every room in every home in every building... No way... More likely they will go to the middle of your neighborhood shout over the loudspeakers in a couple of different languages... Take the willing with them and leave... After that you probably truly will be on your own...



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by CosmicCitizen

Originally posted by crazyguy2012

Originally posted by Thermo Klein



I cannot imagine an "american" force forcefully removing a hundred men women and small children who are not posing an immediate threat.


If your area is targeted for quarantine or evacuation (ie to Camp Fema) they will bring in the troop trucks and your group will be loaded up. If you fire on them then they will unload on you and yours.


I have spent many years in the military.. I doubt american forces will fire on their own kind.. Mothers children... You are also forgetting the power of mothers. One time in a Walmart someone made the mistake of purposefully running one of her children down with a shopping cart. She is not large by any stretch of imagination.. It took ten men to pull her off the battered bloody body... No they try that and they will have more than they bargained for..



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by CosmicCitizen

Originally posted by crazyguy2012

Originally posted by Thermo Klein



I cannot imagine an "american" force forcefully removing a hundred men women and small children who are not posing an immediate threat.


If your area is targeted for quarantine or evacuation (ie to Camp Fema) they will bring in the troop trucks and your group will be loaded up. If you fire on them then they will unload on you and yours.


Plus once they start firing they can forget having any type of cooperation ever... It would be all out war... the government would fall... It would fall faster than you can imagine...



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:43 PM
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Nuclear Diver and Ex-Commando... You both also sound kind of unpatriotic... I see Ex-Commando is in Australia.. Not sure where you are from Diver... But if a foreign force invades my country. I will not run... Hopefully neither will my neighbors, the police, the militias, and the military. We will fight to repel any invaders... It seems like you believe our government will collaborate with some foreign enemy to take out its own people. Never gonna happen. The officers and soldiers in our armies have sworn to uphold and defend this country, its people and its constitution.


The more likely scenario is a major disaster. Perhaps a large scale attack (nuclear, chemical, biological)... But a coordinated invasion and attempt to take over and enslave us is not very likely...

Things would get messy don't get me wrong... There would be large scale urban conflict, looting, rioting, murder... But no force going door to door and executing everyone who doesn't go willingly to a fema camp....



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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In this scenario you would have to assume a military is involved. Or a para.
One of the first things a military force worth its salt would do is prohibit all civilain movement. War history shows us you can't have a mass exodus of civilians blocking avenues of aproach and exit. The best thing to do is, like a nother said, "Not be there when it happens."

You can count on being found if it is you they are looking for. You will only recieve "special treatment" if they find you while "hiding". Sounds blunt, but those are the cold hard facts.

Best thing anyone can do is find a property with a long driveway. And "plan" from there. Depending on what you are hiding from..... either way in this scenario, it sounds as if you will be in some sort of combat. You only have to decide what is worth dying or living for.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by crazyguy2012
Nuclear Diver and Ex-Commando... You both also sound kind of unpatriotic... I see Ex-Commando is in Australia.. Not sure where you are from Diver... But if a foreign force invades my country. I will not run... Hopefully neither will my neighbors, the police, the militias, and the military. We will fight to repel any invaders... It seems like you believe our government will collaborate with some foreign enemy to take out its own people. Never gonna happen. The officers and soldiers in our armies have sworn to uphold and defend this country, its people and its constitution.


The more likely scenario is a major disaster. Perhaps a large scale attack (nuclear, chemical, biological)... But a coordinated invasion and attempt to take over and enslave us is not very likely...

Things would get messy don't get me wrong... There would be large scale urban conflict, looting, rioting, murder... But no force going door to door and executing everyone who doesn't go willingly to a fema camp....


I'd only say one thing to this - I've never met a soldier that fought in a war to protect the soil of their country. They fight for their family, their way of life, their loved ones.

Being patriotic only extends so far; would I run, with my family, in the face of sure defeat at the hands of the enemy? Without a doubt.

Do I know a single soldier / operator who would let themselves be killed, facing an overpowering enemy, to save their house or their neighborhood? No. They would all bug out with their family, and use their knowledge and resources to protect their family and friends.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:58 PM
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Assuming you live in an urban area, cannot move to the burbs... Also assuming you do not have the ability or resources to build your own hiding spot in the woods, swamp , mountains or desert in advance... And the government goes bad and you want to run. You need an escape plan... My suggestion start walking and learning your environment. Look for hiding places people will not automatically be attracted too. I could name a few to look for but I am keeping these for myself.... Take a two hour walk at dusk every night look for hiding spots. Evaluate what is a good spot and what is a bad hiding spot. Try a few out... Can you (and your family) stay there concealed... If someone hostile approaches them can you take them out silently without being seen? If the SH@# hits look for spots like those... move at night until you are far away from any resemblance of civilization. Your final spot should be difficult to get to on foot and impossible to get to by vehicle... There should be water sources nearby... Water is the most important...





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