World War 3 - is upon us !!! Rapture is Even Closer!, page 4

reply to post by truejew

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Actually, I thought that you might pull some verses out of the first three chapters of Revelation regarding the letters to the churches.

The words, "great tribulation", are only used three times in the Bible, and one of them is in Revelation 2:22, but here are some surrounding verses as well:

Revelation 2:20-24

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

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reply to post by jmdewey60

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You must notice the difference in the 2 main groups (Context) Romans 11:25 Lest you be self-opinionated (wise in your own conceits), I do not want you to miss this hidden truth and mystery, brethren: a hardening (insensibility) has [temporarily] befallen a part of Israel [to last] until the full number of the ingathering of the Gentiles has come in,

" Full Number " of Gentile Believer's Come's IN. = Church = Age of Grace.

Revelation 6 - 18 Mainly Jews - And Rest of World Population!

Last Warning To The " Churches " Rev. 3:22 "John Representing The Church " Is Caught UP " Rev. 4:1-2

Revelation Ch. 7 Are the tribulation saints...From All Nations and People Groups

Church Is NOT MENTIONED! You Have The 2 Witnesses and The 144,000 Representing THE LORD!

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by Deetermined

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Jesus spoke as if the Church was there during the tribulation.

There are no second chances.

Saints will be there, Jesus NEVER said the "church" (ekklesia).

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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The Greek word is "aeon" which is "age"... the end of an age, not the world as in destruction of the planet. Its the end of the age of human government.

There is no actual text with that word in it that I am referring to.
What I am talking about is how I understand the one verse in the NT that actually describes something like a Rapture, which is in 1 Thessalonians. I see it as discussing events on The Last Day, as understood within Judaism at the time of the writing of that letter by Paul.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

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Do you have any Bible verses you can share in order to make your point?

You don't think Matthew 24 and the parable of the 10 virgins are Bible verses?

The context of Matthew 24 is the Jews who will come to saving faith during the great tribulation. See Hosea 5:15.

reply to post by Deetermined

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The question is whether or not anyone else will become saved after the rapture to become part of the elect.

I agree, this is the question.
Where if the answer is YES, then why bother talking about WW III, end of the world, and Rapture, since Jesus shows up, everyone is forced to acknowledge him as Lord, and then everyone just goes on with life as usual from that point on?

reply to post by Prezbo369

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I agree with Druscilla, I wouldnt shed a tear if all the Christians were beamed up sooner rather than later.

The problem with that is the proponents of the John Darby pre-tribulation rapture theory believe that the Christians are replaced by Jews who like the mean, killer Messiah and become (by their belief in that manifestation) the gods of the earth who everyone not of their "pure" blood must serve as slaves and pay annual tribute to.

reply to post by Deetermined

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"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV)

Does "with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God" sound like your secret pre-trib rapture?

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by ResearchEverything777

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King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Source ( King James )

It will remain a guessing game right up until the question is answered, IMO.

~Heff

No it won't he gave us signs of the Season it will begin, to people who are Watchers we will know. Revelation 17 the Beast the Harlot rides is a timeline.

The seven heads of the Beast are seven mountains. In prophetical language mountains are associated with kingdoms or empires. So from the time when Revelation was written, 5 empires/kingdoms had fallen, Egpyt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. These are the first 5 empires that Israel ran afoul of from it's first inception as a nation of people. The head that "is" was the Roman empire which was the current and 6th head of the Beast when Revelation was first penned. The other that has not yet come is the 7th head of the Beast from when Revelation was first written, this was the next empire which was forged under Muhammad and Islam and it lasted for a short time (1300 years biblical reckoning). The Islamic Caliphate/Ottoman Empire fell in 1924, this 7th head of the Beast is the Beast that was and is not and is going into perdition. This 7th head is the 8th and final head of the Beast. The 7th head of the Beast was dealt it's mortal wound in WWI, but it will survive and rise again and become the 8th head of the Beast.

The Muslim Brotherhood was created to revive the 7th head of the Beast and take the reborn Calpihate into the 8th and final empire which will fail and go into perdition. We are between the 7th and 8th heads of the Beast in Revelation 17. The End of Days timeline was established through Israel and Israel has always been the focal point even in the time of the gentiles.

reply to post by ResearchEverything777

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You must notice the difference in the 2 main groups (Context)

This has nothing to do, as far as I can tell, with my comments that had to do with the prophecy in Luke, and the event described in 1 Thessalonians.

Romans 11:25 Lest you be self-opinionated (wise in your own conceits), I do not want you to miss this hidden truth and mystery, brethren: a hardening (insensibility) has [temporarily] befallen a part of Israel [to last] until the full number of the ingathering of the Gentiles has come in,

" Full Number " of Gentile Believer's Come's IN. = Church = Age of Grace.

" Full Number " is an interpretive type translation in the English version, of the Greek word, pleroma. You could just as easily translate it as 'till the nations have achieved a fullness from entering in'.

Revelation 6 - 18 Mainly Jews - And Rest of World Population!

Jews, what?

Last Warning To The " Churches " Rev. 3:22

So?

"John Representing The Church " Is Caught UP " Rev. 4:1-2

No, caught up in the spirit, not a Rapture, and John in no way "represents" the church.

Revelation Ch. 7 Are the tribulation saints...From All Nations and People Groups

So?

Church Is NOT MENTIONED! You Have The 2 Witnesses and The 144,000 Representing THE LORD!

That was probably written before the idea of a Catholic Church, and "churches" meant individual congregations. They probably ha another term like Body of Christ, or just the Congregation of the Lord.
My impression of your philosophy is that this is not the product of your own thinking but the result of cult brainwashing.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Saints will be there, Jesus NEVER said the "church" (ekklesia).

You would not expect to see it because the word was never used in that way until you get to Ephesians, which represents a later development of theology after Paul's death.
Revelation has to be an earlier writing which predates that evolution of terminology.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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The context of Matthew 24 is the Jews who will come to saving faith during the great tribulation. See Hosea 5:15.

The tribulation of Matthew 24 was fulfilled when Jerusalem fell and the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.
Hosea 5:15 is about being carried off to the Assyria and Babylonian exiles.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

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In prophetical language mountains are associated with kingdoms or empires.

News to me!
Where did you get that from?
No commentator on Revelation has used that as a possible explanation.
In the Canaanite days mountains represented the abodes of the gods.

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by Deetermined

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"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV)

Does "with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God" sound like your secret pre-trib rapture?

Who said the rapture would be a "secret"? Millions of people go missing suddenly it might make the evening news.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Saints will be there, Jesus NEVER said the "church" (ekklesia).

You would not expect to see it because the word was never used in that way until you get to Ephesians, which represents a later development of theology after Paul's death.
Revelation has to be an earlier writing which predates that evolution of terminology.

edit on 14-8-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19

Jesus uses the term "ekklesia" in the gospels when talking to Peter.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

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The context of Matthew 24 is the Jews who will come to saving faith during the great tribulation. See Hosea 5:15.

The tribulation of Matthew 24 was fulfilled when Jerusalem fell and the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.
Hosea 5:15 is about being carried off to the Assyria and Babylonian exiles.

edit on 14-8-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19

Bullcrap. Explain when all the events of Matthew 24 happened. The disciples asked Jesus 3 questions.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Who said the rapture would be a "secret"? Millions of people go missing suddenly it might make the evening news.

None of that makes it not secret, according to the article in the Rapture Ready web site.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Jesus uses the term "ekklesia" in the gospels when talking to Peter.

Which still could have meant a local version, such as Peter, the other disciples, and the other people already directly associated with them. Someone doing a New Testament Survey course should know all this, so I don't understand why I need to tell you these things unless your cult is who is putting on the course.

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