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Saudi-Arabia to build a city only for women!

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posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by insaan

Originally posted by wash777
Women in Saudi Arabia are oppressed. To say so does not make one a "supremist" of any kind. IMO, of course.


Supremacist mentality. When 100 Muslim dies in US bombings, it is just news, when 1 Westerner dies in Muslim bombing it is the judgement day.

Even if you are not a supremacist, the perspective that you're standing on will unconsciously give you a supremacist mentality.

I'm curious, do you see Western women in the same light as Muslim women in Saudi Arabia? Surely they are also oppressed? Mini Skirts in Snow?


Please, stop with the labels and discuss this in another way? I do want your input.

The girl wearing miniskirt in winter is free to decide to do that, even though it is inappropriate clothing for the weather, and yes I've stopped my daughter from doing just that when she was thirteen. To wear black body covering on the hottest of days also may be a custom there, but is it appropriate for the weather and is she free to remove it? Black does attract the heat more than a light color.
edit on 13-8-2012 by aboutface because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 

Its kind of sad how negative many of you view this development.

You cant change a culture over night.

You cant change a 1000+ year old religion over night either.

I have a feeling that a lot of the "elite" in SA would like to see their country become more modernized and be more relevant in the world, outside of owning a lot of oil. Once that oil is gone, they need something else to maintain themselves. But not im getting off track.

The point im making is you're NOT going to chance a country like that overnight. Im sure MANY people in their country dislike this idea. This is due to the religion that is forced down their throats from childbirth. On the other hand, the rulers of SA are somewhat held back by their population, many of whom seem afraid of change. Really, what ruler wants to piss of their population so much as to cause mass rioting and revolution.

SO, something like that has to be done gradually. I am ecstatic right now for SA, that there are people over there powerful enough and willing enough to push for SOME kind of progressive change for their woman. So yea, they didnt make it perfect on the first run, very few things do. But this is a step in the right direction. If this little experiment works, and produces some positive and clearly discernible results, then expect more of this.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by aboutface


Please, stop with the labels and discuss this in another way? I do want your input.

The girl wearing miniskirt in winter is free to decide to do that, even though it is inappropriate clothing for the weather, and yes I've stopped my daughter from doing just that when she was thirteen. To wear black body covering on the hottest of days also may be a custom there, but is it appropriate for the weather and is she free to remove it? Black does attract the heat more than a light color.
edit on 13-8-2012 by aboutface because: (no reason given)


Now we have a situation of:

Freedom of oppression VS un-free oppression

Am I close?



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by MastaShake
Women are considered 2nd class citizens in the muslim world


I think it was up until the 70's the same thing in the western world

Now In the year 2012 women run the world, how times have changed in 30 years.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by VonDoomen
 



I expressed my opinion. Reservations were sold as safe havens as well to the people who wanted their consciences tickled, but I definitely know the reality of a nice segregated society.. because my entire family lives on a reservation in Montana and Canada over the border.
I dont believe in segregating people for sex, sexual preference, color, whatever excuse wants to be used and wrapped in goodness and propaganda. I see a million things that can come of this that arent positive in the least. There are already segregated groups in Saudi and its been of no benefit to them because due to law, they are reliant on others for certain things and this has made a whole group of people at the mercy of those in power.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Now all they need is to start making cities for all sexual predators/molesters.
Wall em in and let the filth of society Stay there with there kind.

(only after they are living organ donors to civilians.
Uncle Charlie needs a kidney, oh Chester molester is your blood type
And only 30. He will make a fine donor.)
Then they will think twice about doing there perverted devient ways.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by VonDoomen
 

I see your point that the change must come from them and from within. That's an ideal. However, if the world does not prod them a little as the Olymic Committee did, then would it ever move forward?

Let's hope they invite support for that change from the rest of the world. However, if the women of Saudi Arabia are not allowed to speak for themselves, then how is the rest of the world to know that it is not exclusively male-driven as a form of control?



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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The women need to have a revolution: Withhold sex till they get over themselves. It worked in Colombia.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Advantage
I see a million things that can come of this that arent positive in the least. There are already segregated groups in Saudi and its been of no benefit to them because due to law, they are reliant on others for certain things and this has made a whole group of people at the mercy of those in power.



Yes - - but it presents an opportunity.

The only way women will ever have freedom/equality is if they fight for it and prove they deserve it.

Too many women in oppressed religion believe they are supposed to be oppressed and man is supposed to be in charge according to God. There are still women here in America in Christianity that think this way.

The stronger women - - the ones that want independence need the opportunity. Its up to them to do something with it.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by antonia
The women need to have a revolution: Withhold sex till they get over themselves. It worked in Colombia.


I think in (at least some) Islamic cultures - - - there is no rape in marriage.

Probably not the best way for these women to revolt.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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So they see the need to allow women the right to work but still cannot let go of their superstitious backwards religious BS so they come up with a work around... Sigh!

I suppose this can be seen as a step in the right direction however it is just amazing that people still believe 1000 year old superstitions in the 21st century...



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by aboutface
 


Women are not equals, in Saudi Arabia.

Its a control mechanism.

Qur'an- 4:34 "Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient.




I would have to hear their deffinition of 'superior' first.... (which incidentally does not exists in a great marriage)

Obedience stretches only so far before patience wears real thin, and not as far as they think, but that is for the woman to educate the man with in the privacy of their own homes.

They certaibnly have a long uphill road those brothers, and I'm reserving judgement until the women speak for themselves en masse.
Thier younger generation will show them the way, bit by bit, about what is okay and what is not on.

Sometimes I could use a handler myself, other times I would eat him for breakfast, raising my bowl and asking
"please sir, may I have some more?"
X



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


See you call it "segregation" which has a very negative connotation. This is NOT forced segregation.
If i read the OP correctly, it was for women who WISHED to go there to live and work. No one is making them do it. I fail to see how someone could be setting these women up for something nasty down the road. It appears to me they giving them MORE CHOICE AND FREEDOM. Which could only be a good thing for them.

If I was a muslim girl in SA, Id deff prefer this "segregation" over living in a area that reduced my freedoms.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by aboutface
 


Im not saying change has to come from within, although im sure it is helpful.

What im trying to say is that this change needs to come gradually. Some people seem to be pissed off that women weren't handed the keys to SA overnight.

And yes, I do think international support for these activities could be tremendously helpful. But we all know that many people over there are firmly stuck in there ways (not like we dont have some of our own). I think the most effective way would be for muslims to see this work in a muslim country and to be shown the way from their own people



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by insaan
 

My belief that they are oppressed comes not from their wearing the hijab but from their lack of freedom to study, to speak, to develop in the way the want to. Rather it comes from travel to other places, from sheltering refugees from Islamic countries in my home, and from countless discussions.

Several men have told me that that the men are too easily seduced by the flow of a woman's hair for instance, and whether it's true or not they told me the hijab was to reduce lust in the men. Modesty is not something practiced in the western world very much thanks to Hollywood and the media, imo. However, does it serve a purpose to compare one to the other? One is either free or is not.

A widow who cannot leave her home to purchase bread without a male escort in my opinion is oppressed unless she is in danger and has access to a convenient dial-an-outing-escort, imho. If only certain males have the power of decision as to whether she leaves the house or not, then what else is it but a form of control?

edit on 13-8-2012 by aboutface because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


So you're opinion is that "women are supposedly incapable of doing them due to something about the way a woman's body is made."?

Sounds kind of self defeating? :-\



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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The only thing that puzzles me about all this is since when is it any of our business what the Saudi Arabians do? So long as they are not mass murdering any group of people it really has nothing to do with us. If they bring it to our nations then yes, I would say we should speak up because the level of suppression of women is beyond anything reasonable and even anything which had existed in Western history. I am not going to condemn the Saudis for this; it is the continuation of their ancestral traditions and whether we agree with those traditions or not, so long as they do not force it upon us I say let them be.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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So presumably the men build this "all women city" then move the women in and leave themselves.
So when the electricity, presuming they have it breaks down or the sewerage works fail etc just who exactly will be repairing them. Should be the women as they will be running and living in the city. However where are the women going to be trained to work in the city and do all repairs to the infrastructure if they are not allowed to work unless living in the segregated city made for them. I see a bit of a catch 22 here. Yes we will allow you to work but we can't train you first as you are not allowed to work in a regular city.....hmph



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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I suspect that we should not be too judgmental. No national culture changes instantaneously. Those who separate humanity into groups must know this is a human constant.

As a favorite author of mine once wrote, more or less; "The measure of a civilization is in the quality of its citizens."

We all have room to grow.

I think most understand the road is long, and change should be self-fulfilling. But it isn't.

The elders, the oligarchs, the technocrats, the robber barons, the ministers, and others who are somehow ordained to lead; all of these are what stand in the way of change... because the present is malleable... and being able to do a thing, they did it... and made a game of it ... so they can "win."

That's what we must overcome. And "force" won't fix it.

Apologies for the topic drift.... I got carried away I guess.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
The only thing that puzzles me about all this is since when is it any of our business what the Saudi Arabians do? So long as they are not mass murdering any group of people it really has nothing to do with us. If they bring it to our nations then yes, I would say we should speak up because the level of suppression of women is beyond anything reasonable and even anything which had existed in Western history. I am not going to condemn the Saudis for this; it is the continuation of their ancestral traditions and whether we agree with those traditions or not, so long as they do not force it upon us I say let them be.


If you hear the sound of domestic violence, I would hope you take it upon yourself to call the cops. If the Saudi women ever say they are thrilled with the status quo, then I'll be fine with that, but when they call on my government (as a few have) to intervene in their situation, then all is not well with them. We care because we are all linked in the human family and when we perceive that oppression is happening, some of us feel that we have to say something. If we are proven wrong, then we will cease speaking out for them. So far though, they are not even permitted to speak.




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