Science explains the existence of God., page 2

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:24 AM

link

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by charles1952

Think of it this way: if nature is god, it doesn't need creation, because it is the creator.

Except that, logically, the creation cannot include the creator. If the creation is created by the creator, how can the creator be a part of it?

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:28 AM

link

reply to post by adjensen

There is no evidence for anything supernatural, only things that have not been explained by science. 10,000 years ago, people saw the sun as supernatural and worshiped it as a god. Over time, it has been proven to be completely natural and is only one star among trillions and trillions within the known universe. In my opinion, the same thing will eventually happen to your god, it will be proven to be nothing supernatural at all, only all natural things combined.

I would have to disagree you are always even handed, I am not the only one who would attest to this either. I will leave it at that though to keep it civil.

adjensen

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:31 AM

link

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen

There is no evidence for anything supernatural, only things that have not been explained by science.

I would agree, but that is the very nature of science. It declares that it has nothing to do with the supernatural, ever, under any circumstances.

Agreed?

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:31 AM

link

reply to post by adjensen

The universe is not a creation, it just 'is' and always has been. There is no need for a creator because there was never a creation. In your mind that may be illogical, but in my mind it makes perfectly logical sense.

There is proof that time can be infinite, math is an infinitely long line of numbers and that fact alone proves there is room for infinite time.

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 12:33 AM

link

reply to post by adjensen

I agree, but that doesn't mean something that is seen as 'supernatural' can never be explained by science as completely natural.

maes2

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 01:42 AM

link

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen

I agree, but that doesn't mean something that is seen as 'supernatural' can never be explained by science as completely natural.

it depends on what you call it science. it seems that you just see the expeimental sciences. but wisdom is the main source of science and conscious. none of them can explain the Essence of God. because God is defined as the ultimate power, existence, mercy, fury,... and it's nature is Ultimate too.
wisdom tells humanity that even a car is built by someone. and the more the car be complicated the more the creator is powerful. wisdom can not accept that everything be created by nothing. and it can not accept the vicious circle. moreover if any kind of science could explain everything then there was no need for prophets. science is even weak to explain what the nature of light is ! and they just follow their Conjecture. human is far weak to prevent it's own death.

edit on 14-8-2012 by maes2 because: (no reason given)

charles1952

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 01:45 AM

link

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

I agree, but that doesn't mean something that is seen as 'supernatural' can never be explained by science as completely natural.

I agree with that completely, just as it's worded. But I would maintain that if something is supernatural, then science does not have, and can never have, a device to measure it. Science can measure matter, forces, and energy, but that's it. It cannot measure anything that doesn't fit into those categories.

You can argue, as some have, that there is no such thing as the supernatural, but if it exists, you can't argue that science will weigh it, or determine it's length.

With respect,
Charles1952

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 01:46 AM

link

reply to post by maes2

Well, you're right that something cannot come from nothing, which is why this something has always been.

By your logic, god cannot exist because god is something isn't it?

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 01:48 AM

link

reply to post by charles1952

How do you know something supernatural exists? Nothing supernatural can exist in a completely natural universe. If god is supernatural, he cannot operate within this natural universe, if he can he is not supernatural at all.

charles1952

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 02:08 AM

link

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

Well, let's take your questions first.

How do you know something supernatural exists?

The same way some people believe the supernatural doesn't exist. Belief. I happen to think the evidence supporting my belief is sufficient, others may not. But I don't see measuring instruments deciding it one way or the other.

Nothing supernatural can exist in a completely natural universe.

If you're saying that the universe is completely natural, then it can not have the supernatural in it, you're arguing that in a place without "A" you cannot find "A." That's correct, but trivial. I don't think the universe is completely natural.

If god is supernatural, he cannot operate within this natural universe,

Sorry, I don't see why that has to be true.

Just as a very clumsy first start, how would the characters in a play know the author? He's outside their world, but certainly affects it, and nothing the characters can do will tell them about the author.

Now, as I said, that's a clumsy and imperfect example, but it may do as a start.

With respect,
Charles1952

maes2

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 02:15 AM

link

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by maes2

By your logic, god cannot exist because god is something isn't it?

what you are saying will lead to the ultimate hierarchy. this hierarchy will go to Ultimate. we should call something a God that deserves it ! so we do not call a creature a God. God is Ultimate of everything. the first creator.
some philosophers say that God is the existence. and we are collections of nothings ! for example we call something a God that is the most powerful, the most merciful, the most wisdom, the most existence...... but we the creatures have only part of them. the portion of existence, our wisdom, our feelings that we have received made us human or insect !

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 02:18 AM

link

reply to post by charles1952

I understand the first part. What do you believe to be supernatural in the universe? If it is happening then it is natural in my opinion. Also, the example you gave is not trivial, it's common sense, something you don't need to trivialize to understand.

That's a faulty analogy with the play. Any character in that play can ask who the author is and find out, plus the script of a play always has its author's name written on the front page, unless the author doesn't want to be known.

edit on 14-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 02:22 AM

link

reply to post by maes2

Sounds like the universe to me.

Greatest I am

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 05:33 AM

link

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Greatest I am

Believing without knowing is worshiping an idol.
Do not make any idols or images of me, said God.
edit on 13-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

That condemns all who have faith then.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 05:37 AM

link

Originally posted by MamaJ

Eta: is the proof of the op in the last video because the other videos did not prove the existence of God other than a delusion of mental health and ritualistic behavior.
edit on 13-8-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

Which to me explains the existence of God or even the concept.
It stems from "a delusion of mental health and ritualistic behavior".

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 05:41 AM
link

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by skepticconwatcher

Great post! I especially like the thumbs down part, very insightful. /sarcasm

As for the OP, I haven't watched the videos yet because I don't have the time right now, but I will have to agree with the idol worship part.

The idols most worship is not god as you say though, but Jesus/Muhammad/Krishna/etc., they are the false prophets that god speaks of throwing into the lake of fire along with the beast. It's funny how they discourage worshiping false prophets, yet they do not realize that's exactly what they are doing now.

All these false religions and false prophets are the reason we are in the 'lake of fire' as we speak, because most are content with sitting on their hands waiting for Jesus or whoever to come back and fix everything for them instead of being proactive about it themselves.

edit on 13-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I agree that most, not all, are doing just that.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 05:45 AM
link

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Science does explain the existence of God. Why don't you pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and ask him to show you how
.

Because man has little if anything to learn from a genocidal God who had his son needlessly murdered.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 05:47 AM
link

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Science explains the existence of God.

No it doesn't.

Science is limited by methodological naturalism, its basis. That means that it not only has nothing to say about God (or anything supernatural), by definition, it CANNOT say anything about God.

It can and does.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 05:52 AM
link

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by adjensen

Dear adjensen,

Your statement is a fundamental truth, I see no way that it can be rejected. Thank you for posting it.

To the OP in general; if you think Science can explain the feeling inside upon hearing Handel's Messiah, that brought a King to his feet in awe; if you believe science can explain by formula your feelings upon seeing a loved one after a long absence; if you can look at the Pieta then refer to a scientific table to explain your emotions; then you are a man with no soul, or a dead one. Indeed, I think that a person like that would lose the privelege of being called human and would be confined for his illness.

With respect,
Charles1952

That clip does not speak to feelings. It speaks to delusion.

You are correct in thinking that delusions feel good.
So do wet dreams but they are a poor substitute for the real thing.
Seek God. You have yet to find him.

Regards
DL

MamaJ

posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 07:10 AM
link

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Science does explain the existence of God. Why don't you pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and ask him to show you how
.

Because man has little if anything to learn from a genocidal God who had his son needlessly murdered.

Regards
DL

I dont believe in that kind of God.... So..... Am I still delusional and or mental? Lol

As far as supernatural and ....just " natural".....

I say we are on a planet that spins in space and ... That to me is supernatural! Science does indeed explain such that is most definitely supernatural! Its all in the mind what you choose to see. Do you see fragments of the entire picture or the whole picture? It matters.