Tribler bit torrent from Delft University seeks to make worlds first 100% Anonymous bit torrent

Want your local ISP's and Government from seeing what you download via bit torrent? This could be the answer.

The folks at Delft University have created a bit torrent client technology that will keep your searches and downloads away from prying eyes. Available this fall.

Excerpts from the article:

Their Tribler client is already completely decentralized, meaning it will still work even in the event that all BitTorrent sites are shut down. Anonymity is the next big step in its evolution. “We’re going to take Internet privacy to the next level,” the lead researcher says about the upcoming release.

Unlike traditional BitTorrent clients, Tribler does not rely on central servers or third-party sites. Users can search, download and moderate files from within the application itself, based on pure peer-to-peer communication. Quite a remarkable achievement, but it’s also just the beginning for the research team.

Pouwelse explained that the idea is to add a proxy layer where proxies act as “caches” of content. This can hugely improve downloads speeds, but also makes BitTorrent downloads more private.

“Our goal is to provide all users with the download speed which today can only be found in private BitTorrent communities, combined with the privacy that is currently only offered by paid VPN services,” said Pouwelse.

Experimental results have shown that the performance of the proposed mechanism is better than that of regular BitTorrent in a large number of scenarios. At the same time, the proxy layer can be used to offer the users a shield of plausible deniability enhancing their privacy,” Pouwelse told us.

Helped by money from European tax payers, the “understaffed” team say they are now at a point where Tribler can compete with some of the fastest centralized services. Their P2P streaming technology is currently under consideration to become an official Internet standard and is being actively tested by major broadcasting companies including the BBC.

The Tribler proxy layer is expected to be implemented this fall.

See the source for a neat diagram of this technology explaining the differences between this and the standard bit torrent technology we use now.

Source: torrentfreak.com...

This is exciting news for folks who like to download torrent files. However I find it strange that the BBC is testing this and they claim this is " under consideration to become an official Internet standard ". Who is going to allow this to become standard when the big companies, ISP's and Governments want the ability to spy on it's citizens? How would the BBC use this technology when you cannot even legally watch BBC programs unless you pay for their service? ( TV in the UK isn't free like it is in America) Kinda makes me wonder if the UK Government is in cahoots with the BBC to find out how well this really works before they squash it. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid.

The Tribler bit client is already considered very private in it's own right due to the way it operates, this will just add the final ISP, Government Take Back our Privacy crushing blow to the technology. I don't believe ISP's or Government should know what we are downloading until there is reasonable suspicion of a crime that dictates a search warrant. Finally, those computer science classes are paying off.

The biggest problem with torrent now is that you are directly connecting to your peers and information can be gleaned directly from the trackers themselves.. so torrent is absolutely not private ...

You see fake movies going online any torrent site every single day.. that is the MPAA and their goons placing fake files up there, seeding it .. then collecting the IP addresses of those foolish enough to bite the hook..

Definitely good to see the technology evolving.. and the product of a university no less =)

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I don't trust this at all! How suspicious can you get? The whole article makes little sense to me! First off aren't ALL bittorrent CLIENTS DE-centralized? The only part that I saw that is different is the searching within the torrent client using only peer information! But then I'm sure I have seen things like that before too, years ago!

Hmmmmm anyway, government is involved (taxpayer funding), BBC is involved, DING DING DING, too many alarm bells going off for my liking! I'd definitely need more information but so far I wouldn't touch this with YOURS!

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

I don't trust this at all! How suspicious can you get? The whole article makes little sense to me! First off aren't ALL bittorrent CLIENTS DE-centralized? The only part that I saw that is different is the searching within the torrent client using only peer information! But then I'm sure I have seen things like that before too, years ago!

Hmmmmm anyway, government is involved (taxpayer funding), BBC is involved, DING DING DING, too many alarm bells going off for my liking! I'd definitely need more information but so far I wouldn't touch this with YOURS!

Don't shoot the messenger. I don't know how all bit torrent clients work, just reporting whats written. These guys at Delft University have been evolving this bit torrent client for several years now. I'd kinda actually trust them to know more about what they are doing than general P2P client programmers - they are like the folks at MIT working with cutting edge technology.

The Government is not involved in this project. Taxpayer money can be donations from regular people like you and me. In fact, there is a list. If you want to look into these people and their backgrounds you may turn up something concrete.

The scientific research and programming on Tribler have been partially supported by

The I-Share project (part of the Dutch Freeband program)
I-Share project website www.freeband.nl...

The STW project Peer to Peer technology (grant no. DTC7299)
website www.stw.nl...

The EU FP7 project P2P-Next (grant no.: 216217)
P2P-Next project website: wwww.p2p-next.org...

The EU FP7 project QLectives (grant no.: 231200)
read more on QLectives
Qlectives project website: www.qlectives.eu...

The NoE PetaMedia?
website: www.petamedia.eu....

www.tribler.org...

What is Tribler, www.tribler.org... and What is Tribler Continued www.tribler.org... which is supposed to have a more technical explanation ho how Tribler works.

Perhaps if someone here is really up on how bit torrent clients work, they can read the above and explain to you the differences better than the article did.

They've always said that if they continue with the copyright facism then people will find a way around it. I have an eerie feeling thought. That university might end up in flames soon

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Don't shoot the messenger. I don't know how all bit torrent clients work, just reporting whats written. These guys at Delft University have been evolving this bit torrent client for several years now. I'd kinda actually trust them to know more about what they are doing than general P2P client programmers - they are like the folks at MIT working with cutting edge technology.

LOL Wait, you took my reply as some sort of personal attack? "don't shoot the messenger"? EH?

Why would you trust them? schools/colleges/universities are all part of "the system"... I have to question why on earth they would jump to the aid, working for "several years", for pirates! lol Doesn't really add up does it? The thing is as well that I didn't see anything "new" in there. So how come it's taken them so long? This tech has been available for years! I remember about 10 years ago I was visiting my friends brother. He had an application that would basically search for a film/music/program on other peoples computers... That is the peer searching they are on about...

The Government is not involved in this project. Taxpayer money can be donations from regular people like you and me. In fact, there is a list. If you want to look into these people and their backgrounds you may turn up something concrete.

I have never seen "taxpayers money" referring to donations of people that also happen to pay tax! What a ridiculous thing to say! lol... Taxpayers money is money that people have paid in taxes! I have never seen or heard it mean anything else... Can I just ask, why are you kinda defending them? Thats how it seems to me... Besides the BBC being involved is enough for me! They most certainly would not be supporting pirating in any way shape or form! Even being involved with a company building a torrent client...

Perhaps if someone here is really up on how bit torrent clients work, they can read the above and explain to you the differences better than the article did.

I understood what was being said, it just didn't sound new to me, even the use of proxies etc, it's all very old tech...

I will have a look a little deeper into it but come on you must be a little suspicious yourself, surely? What is their motive for doing this? Why wouldn't they create a networking (facebook) site that protects privacy for an example? Why a bit torrent client? Very strange to me!

But no personal attacks against you in my previous comment, nor this one lol... I'm talking about the article...

Didn't Tribler start off as the "social networking" bittorrent client? And iirc it pretty much fell flat on its face. Clients have had decentralization for donkey's years, a good example of which is Vuze (formerly Azureus) which for as long as I can remember has has the ability to create, host and publish torrent files to the peer swarm without any need for third parties. Im struggling to see where this anonymity comes in, as pointed out already, you still need to directly connect to other peers in order to download/upload data. That is unless there is obfuscation by servers acting as middlemen?? But this would not be "decentralized". Hrm.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

From 2008 onwards several million Euro of funding are awarded for P2P research at Delft by the European Union FP7 research program. Read more about the EU funding.

So you see, this is indeed taxpayer money, not donations! Though I'm sure people may well have donated aswell, but I read this on the link you provided... Now it says P2P research, I'm aware that doesn't only mean torrent clients, there are other applications that use P2P, games consoles come to mind as an example... So does the EU know what this company is spending the money on? Surely if they have been working on it for years they must no? Also surely someone has to allocate this money? They have to decide who gets it etc... Why would they give it to someone who wants to make pirating easier and safer?

It's all very strange! I'll keep digging though, see what else I can find.

>>
Unlike traditional BitTorrent clients, Tribler does not rely on central servers or third-party sites. Users can search, download and moderate files from within the application itself, based on pure peer-to-peer communication. Quite a remarkable achievement, but it’s also just the beginning for the research team.
>>

Bunk, bunk, bunk...

Whoever wrote that has not even a clue about how bittorrent works, centralized servers or not is entirely irrelevant. In fact, do you think that MPAA or whoever cares about centralized servers? NOT AT ALL.

They seed and then collect the IPs, it doesn't play a role where the initial torrent file is hosted.

Bittorrent is a P2P program, once you connect to another Peer they have your IP, the other problem is that bittorrent always require the leecher to share as well, eg. if you d/l something you will also always be uploading.

And yes, i dont trust this information at all.

reply to post by mee30


Bittorrent isnt just about pirating, no more than cars are about speeding or DUI. Plenty of well established and reputable firms use both bittorrent and p2p for distribution so lets not jump on the bash a pirate bandwagon eh?

reply to post by quackers

Bittorrent isnt just about pirating, no more than cars are about speeding or DUI. Plenty of well established and reputable firms use both bittorrent and p2p for distribution so lets not jump on the bash a pirate bandwagon eh?

Are you telling me not to bash myself? WTF?

And yes yes, there are SOME very small companies that use them, ubuntu for one, but MAINLY they are used for pirating! Even the guys making the damn thing know that! Else why would THIS statement be made?

At the same time, the proxy layer can be used to offer the users a shield of plausible deniability enhancing their privacy,” Pouwelse told us.

Giving plausible deniability for what? Legitimate businesses? lol

Now what I was saying (and I thought it was clear enough)... Why would the EU, pay for pirates to pirate safely? Why would the BBC be involved? Why would they support pirating?

This has nothing to do with my personal opinion of pirating! I am questioning why TPTB would support this when they are trying to crack down on it! LOL

Personally I wouldn't use THIS torrent client!

Blizzard isnt a small company. Sky Broadcasting isnt a small company. Sony isnt a small company. All use p2p for one thing or another, and theres plenty more where they came from. I aint seen a single bittorrent client tout their software for illegal purposes, quite the contrary. You go try asking about it in Vuze or uTorrents forums or chat and see how long you last. You and millions of others migjt use them for such but then youre part of the problem and those developers would probably prefer you didnt use their software.

Originally posted by quackers
Blizzard isnt a small company. Sky Broadcasting isnt a small company. Sony isnt a small company. All use p2p for one thing or another, and theres plenty more where they came from. I aint seen a single bittorrent client tout their software for illegal purposes, quite the contrary. You go try asking about it in Vuze or uTorrents forums or chat and see how long you last. You and millions of others migjt use them for such but then youre part of the problem and those developers would probably prefer you didnt use their software.

YES I have already stated that P2P can be used for other purposes if you actually read a damn thing I wrote! lol...

This technology however is for BITTORRENT CLIENTS! They are renowned for being used for pirating! I've even downloaded some that recommend THEPIRATEBAY! lmao!

The team making this are talking about "plausible deniability!" They certainly seem to be in support of pirating! Else tell me a legitimate company that would need to deny anything!

I find it hilarious that you first of all berate me for "jumping on the bash a pirate bandwagon" (which I wasn't anyway) Then when you realize I wasn't you go right ahead and jump on the bandwagon yourself!

Classic stuff!

Anyway the thread isn't about the legitimacy of pirating, it's about some tax payer funded (EU funded) university producing a torrent client that will give people more "protection" from what? If they are talking about legitimate companies?

It is clear to anyone that this is for pirates! Or is it? THAT is my question! They sure want to make it seem like it is! I'm not buying it!

EDIT Just to makes things super duper clear for you. When I said small companies I was talking about companies that use BITTORRENT CLIENTS! Not P2p in general! Because this article is not about p2p in general, is it? Hence your examples are useless!

Bittorrent is a p2p protocol. Companies such as Blizzard use p2p, but they use the bittorrent protocol for that p2p traffic. I can read just fine, it's you that I fear is confused.You don't need a bittorrent client (front end) to use bittorrent. I am by no means berating you, I couldn't care less what you download or from whom you download it from. This "I'm a pirate and all your data are belonging to me" crap isn't doing anyone any favours. While some are trying to champion freedom of expression through the sharing of ALL information, subject to copyright or not, your mindset and the mindset of people like you only harm the cause. You are their scapegoat, and by your own sheer arrogance you drag the rest of us down with you. The thread title makes no bones about funding, rather highlights the anonymity aspect which is of course unlikely, especially when the funding source is taken into account.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Don't shoot the messenger. I don't know how all bit torrent clients work, just reporting whats written. These guys at Delft University have been evolving this bit torrent client for several years now. I'd kinda actually trust them to know more about what they are doing than general P2P client programmers - they are like the folks at MIT working with cutting edge technology.

LOL Wait, you took my reply as some sort of personal attack? "don't shoot the messenger"? EH?

Why would you trust them? schools/colleges/universities are all part of "the system"... I have to question why on earth they would jump to the aid, working for "several years", for pirates! lol Doesn't really add up does it? The thing is as well that I didn't see anything "new" in there. So how come it's taken them so long? This tech has been available for years! I remember about 10 years ago I was visiting my friends brother. He had an application that would basically search for a film/music/program on other peoples computers... That is the peer searching they are on about...

The Government is not involved in this project. Taxpayer money can be donations from regular people like you and me. In fact, there is a list. If you want to look into these people and their backgrounds you may turn up something concrete.

I have never seen "taxpayers money" referring to donations of people that also happen to pay tax! What a ridiculous thing to say! lol... Taxpayers money is money that people have paid in taxes! I have never seen or heard it mean anything else... Can I just ask, why are you kinda defending them? Thats how it seems to me... Besides the BBC being involved is enough for me! They most certainly would not be supporting pirating in any way shape or form! Even being involved with a company building a torrent client...

Perhaps if someone here is really up on how bit torrent clients work, they can read the above and explain to you the differences better than the article did.

I understood what was being said, it just didn't sound new to me, even the use of proxies etc, it's all very old tech...

I will have a look a little deeper into it but come on you must be a little suspicious yourself, surely? What is their motive for doing this? Why wouldn't they create a networking (facebook) site that protects privacy for an example? Why a bit torrent client? Very strange to me! .

I didn't take your comment as a personal attack. I was just saying I didn't have all the ins and outs on this deal. I guess I should have giggled? That's why I gave you some more sources to look at. It wasn't that I was defending them exactly..though I'd like to take them at their word and hope they have a really good product that protects you like they claim.

As far as the money.. i'm a taxpayer. If I give you my hard earned money, I will have given you a taxpayers money - meaning consumers who buy stuff and care about this stuff are supporting them - that's the way I took it. I left you links to some of those listed to see if perhaps you wanted to dig up some dirt on them and prove if they have dirty government of big business connections. When you install the program, and I think it's said on the website too, they get taxpayers money for donations.

To me a bit torrent client makes sense. It doesn't matter if you download illegal stuff or not, the Gov should not be able to snoop on your downloads without probable cause.. it's just the principle of the thing - and bit torrent clients have known problems with the Gov doing that.. people were tired of it and it needed to be fixed.

If I had something against you, I'd set you up with my ex wife, then you'd know I was mad at ya. I'd probably go to Hell for that too. I could be charged with 1st degree murder for even thinking about that. LOL. I'm trying to be wary yet optimistic until we know more about the pros and cons of the system.

reply to post by quackers

Bittorrent is a p2p protocol. Companies such as Blizzard use p2p, but they use the bittorrent protocol for that p2p traffic. I can read just fine, it's you that I fear is confused.You don't need a bittorrent client (front end) to use bittorrent. I am by no means berating you, I couldn't care less what you download or from whom you download it from. This "I'm a pirate and all your data are belonging to me" crap isn't doing anyone any favours. While some are trying to champion freedom of expression through the sharing of ALL information, subject to copyright or not, your mindset and the mindset of people like you only harm the cause. You are their scapegoat, and by your own sheer arrogance you drag the rest of us down with you. The thread title makes no bones about funding, rather highlights the anonymity aspect which is of course unlikely, especially when the funding source is taken into account.

Again you are missing the point and you are IGNORING some very important FACTS which I've laid out a couple times now... But lets try one more time...

1) This thread is about a bittorrent CLIENT! So we are talking about that, the fact that the same process can be used for other things is irrelevant! Who used those other things is also irrelevant!

2) The guys designing the CLIENT (which is the focus of the thread, remember now) say that they are doing it to protect peoples privacy! They also state quite clearly that they are giving people an alibi! They are clearly talking about pirates as legit companies would need no alibi!

3) You mention "bash a pirate band wagon" but then won't shut up about pirates! I have plenty to counter your pretty weak and presumptive arguments but THIS thread is not about the legitimacy of pirating!

4) At least your last sentence makes sense, even if you are just re-wording what I've already said, so I guess we can agree here!

To some up, this "project" is dodgey as hell and most likely a honeytrap in my opinion.

Oh I would like to state that you have ZERO clue about my "mindset", unless you can read minds! Okay?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

I didn't take your comment as a personal attack. I was just saying I didn't have all the ins and outs on this deal. I guess I should have giggled? That's why I gave you some more sources to look at. It wasn't that I was defending them exactly..though I'd like to take them at their word and hope they have a really good product that protects you like they claim.

Fair play, just didn't quite get the shoot the messenger comment... No harm no foul... I'm a suspicious person and whenever TPTB are involved there is pretty much a rule that it is not for our benefit.

As far as the money.. i'm a taxpayer. If I give you my hard earned money, I will have given you a taxpayers money - meaning consumers who buy stuff and care about this stuff are supporting them - that's the way I took it. I left you links to some of those listed to see if perhaps you wanted to dig up some dirt on them and prove if they have dirty government of big business connections. When you install the program, and I think it's said on the website too, they get taxpayers money for donations.

That may well be your interpretation but that is not what taxpayers money means. I showed you quite clearly from their own mouths that they are funded by the EU... What more dirt do you need than that?

To me a bit torrent client makes sense. It doesn't matter if you download illegal stuff or not, the Gov should not be able to snoop on your downloads without probable cause.. it's just the principle of the thing - and bit torrent clients have known problems with the Gov doing that.. people were tired of it and it needed to be fixed.

I totally agree with your sentiments! This is my exact stance... Though government IS involved with this! You think when the EU gives out money for research they don't know what the projects are? You think you can just go to the EU and tell them you will do some P2P research without telling them the details?

I'd love a risk free solution, THIS isn't it!

If I had something against you, I'd set you up with my ex wife, then you'd know I was mad at ya. I'd probably go to Hell for that too. I could be charged with 1st degree murder for even thinking about that. LOL. I'm trying to be wary yet optimistic until we know more about the pros and cons of the system.

Ha Ha, that bad huh?... Well to be honest it doesn't matter how good/bad the system is, first just look at who is funding it! Do you think the EU are bastions of privacy? Do you think they are there for our good? They're not even elected for a start and we are supposed to be for the wonderful democracy! Do you think they support file sharing? They are in bed with big business! They mix in the same circles, they are all pals! You think they would fund research so you could download whatever you wanted freely? Not a single chance in hell!

There are solutions already out there which although are not 100%, they do help... Just google internet anonymity to get some tips and tricks... Forget this government funded client.

This is slightly off topic but it illustrates the point about why a good secure from prying eyes bit torrent system is needed, and answers the question Why this UK University is making this bit torrent client.

The English and UK fans correct me if I'm wrong. This is how I understand the situation.

A group called The British Phonographic Industry (BPI) is the British record industry's trade association.

en.wikipedia.org...

They got a high court to make illegal, unsigned musicians who wanted their music to be heard, from using The Promo Bay as a platform via bit torrent, to distribute their music.

The Promo Bay was set up for starving artists to have a way to share their music. These artists were not under any contract to the record industry. The record industry simply wants a monopoly on all music and doesn't want anyone to have other outlets.

In America, we call this tyranny and fascism. The UK Gov siding with the corporate sector to control it's citizens is clear Fascism. There can be no other way to express it.

Read about it here.
www.techdirt.com... usic-get-charts.shtml

I'll leave you with this:

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

This is slightly off topic but it illustrates the point about why a good secure from prying eyes bit torrent system is needed, and answers the question Why this UK University is making this bit torrent client.

It's your thread dude! lol

And erm no, this doesn't answer any questions for me and infact just reiterates them! Or are you suggesting that the government controlled universities are biting then hand that feeds them? Are you suggesting that the EU is helping the university in this task?

They got a high court to make illegal, unsigned musicians who wanted their music to be heard, from using The Promo Bay as a platform via bit torrent, to distribute their music.

Never heard of this but it makes little sense anyway, they have youtube to share their music if they want. I'm from the UK btw, but this makes little sense to me...

The government has however leaned on ISP to ban the pirate bay (although the measure was pathetic and easily overcome! It was circumvented within minutes! And it didn't even apply to SOME ISP...

Any way all this makes very little difference! The fact still remains that government is funding something which they aim to stop! They most certainly wouldn't be helping pirates to pirate nor unsigned music artists if indeed they were trying to stop them, would they?

All thats needed here is a little common sense. It totally stinks in my opinion.

If the government were behind this effort, it would only be to better track users for entrapment. You know.. we could ask the folks their side of the story.. They have a public forum. I know folks in universities in the USA that create stuff the Government doesn't doesn't like nor would they want being in the public's hands. These are just normal people who don't care where the money comes from. The thing about the government organization funding in part, this project needs to be looked into a lot better. It's possible there as it is here, one hand of the government doesn't know what the other hand is doing.. or the hand that's against this plans to pull the plug and horde the technology if it works really well - from the looks of the forum this app isn't very popular. It has very few posts for a forum that's been up for years.

No, YouTube isn't the same as having a large popular outlet to download the music. YouTube is just one source and you have to use a computer to view the videos.. plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think youtube sound quality is very high.. perhaps not even in stereo.

Using a bit torrent promotion site like The Promo Bay is much better. The idea is NOT to get a record contract. These artists could care less about that. They don't want to be under the thumb of the corrupt "Music Industry" They want to distribute high quality self produced copies of their songs, so that perhaps radio stations will pick them up. Some will always give all their music away for free and some will want to release some songs to promote their digital albums for sale online - no having to make a record or CD for a retail market also controlled bu the music industry. This is how it should be. Free Enterprise by the people for the people without corporate involvement.