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Where is Kolob? Time For Romney To Answers Some Questions

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posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:51 AM
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Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture. Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham, a work published by Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement. According to this work, Kolob is the heavenly body nearest to the throne of God. While the Book of Abraham refers to Kolob as a "star",[1] it also refers to planets as stars,[2] and therefore, some LDS commentators consider Kolob to be a planet.[3] Other Latter Day Saints (or Mormons) consider Kolob to be a metaphor.

Kolob has never been identified with any modern astronomical object and is not recognized by scholars as a concept associated with any ancient civilization. Kolob is rarely discussed in modern LDS religious contexts, but it is periodically a topic of discussion in criticism of Mormonism. The idea appears within LDS culture, including an LDS hymn about it.[4] Kolob is also the inspiration for the fictional planet Kobol within the Battlestar Galactica universe, created by Glen A. Larson, a Mormon


en.wikipedia.org...

I'd like to see Mitt Romney answer questions about his views of God... would be interesting...

Is it possible God is an alien?




The first published reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham, first published in the 1842 newspaper Times and Seasons, and now included within the Pearl of Great Price as part of the canon of Mormonism. The Book of Abraham was dictated in 1836 by Latter Day Saint movement founder Joseph Smith, Jr., after he purchased a set of Egyptian scrolls that accompanied a mummy exhibition. According to Smith, the scrolls described a vision of Abraham, in which Abraham:

"saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God;....and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest."[7]

In an explanation of an Egyptian hypocephalus that was part of the Book of Abraham scrolls, Joseph Smith interpreted one set of hieroglyphics as representing:

"Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh."


I'm not gonna lie... this all sorta makes sense lol.

Here's a crazy read... I've posted it on ATS before. But I think it's worth another...





Joseph Smith also noted that this Kolob idea is "The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth..." Now what about this? When we remember that Joseph Smith was saying this in the 1830's there was literally no Egyoptology to speak of. In the late 1800's decades after Joseph Smith was dead, the professional surveyor, W.F. Petrie found that the Egyptian cubit of 29.161 inches was found from a swinging pendulum which swung 100,000 times in 24 hours in the latitude in which Memphis lies.


Fact or Fiction?

www2.ida.net...




This idea of measurement to the ancient Egyptians was precisely what Joseph Smith said, namely, "the system of measures must have coordinated not only length, volume, and weight, but also time."39 What is absolutely incredible is that "the source of the Egyptian cubit and foot" relates directly here. "There are 86,400 seconds in a day of twenty four hours, or the time it takes the earth to revlolve on its axis. So the distance traveled by the earth at the equator in one second is exactly 1000 of Jomard's cubits." (My emphasis)40 Most interesting... There is that number 1,000 as Joseph Smith said. Now then, we read further that "The builders of the Great Pyramid gave its base a length corresponding to the distance the earth rotates in 1/2 a second. This makes the cubit and the foot doubly earth commensurate: the cubit was equal to 1/1000 of a second of time, the foot to 1/100 second of arc."


I've never heard anyone debunk these claims... nor can I really claim that Joseph Smith actually said these things. If anybody has the answers, that would be awesome!

So...

Where, what, or maybe even 'how' is Kolob? Does Mitt Romney know?




posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by FractalChaos13242017
 


Very interesting! I don't really want to hear Romney talk about anything at all (I'd rather he be silenced permanently),
but, I know a few Mormons from social circles, and have only a very sketchy idea of what they believe.

I do know they say the Garden of Eden is across the city from me, in Independence, MO, and that Smith was assassinated. For having a hq here, they certainly do keep quiet about themselves in terms of theology, though.

Thanks for the thread, S/F. I'll be watching for more answers!!



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Adam-ondi-Ahman MO is the location, not Independence MO.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Janadele
reply to post by wildtimes
 


Adam-ondi-Ahman MO is the location, not Independence MO.


Got it. Thanks.


Welcome to ATS!!

edit on 13-8-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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This earth is our allotted space for our mortal trial period. That is our concern. The wonders of the Universe have but dimly been revealed to us:

www.lds.org...
The Book of Abraham
Chapter 3
Abraham learns about the sun, moon, and stars by means of the Urim and Thummim—The Lord reveals to him the eternal nature of spirits—He learns of pre-earth life, foreordination, the Creation, the choosing of a Redeemer, and the second estate of man.

1 And I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;

2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after His manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

6 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

8 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same border as that upon which thou standest.

10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.

11 Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which His hands had made;

12 And he said unto me: My son, my son (and His hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put His hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which His hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.

13 And He said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And He said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And He said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And He said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.

14 And it was in the night time when the Lord spake these words unto me: I will multiply thee, and thy seed after thee, like unto these; and if thou canst count the number of sands, so shall be the number of thy seeds.

15 And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.

16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.

17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in His heart to do but what He will do it.

18 Howbeit that He made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.


edit on 13-8-2012 by Janadele because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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Continued:

19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

20 The Lord thy God sent His angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.

21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will aprove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second cestate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by Janadele
 


Janadele, I appreciate the time it took for you to post this "wall of scripture"; I'm sorry to say that I have developed the habit of skipping "walls of scripture." A "wall of text", if it is an essay from your heart and your own understanding is fine, and I like long posts, but only in the words of the member.

I would like to hear your own words tell me the story. Just as you would explain it to an interviewer, or an applicant. Not a bunch of scripture, please. Will you please do that?

I don't mean to be rude; it's just a bad taste in my mouth from the members who post ONLY scripture, when what I am interested in is their individual beliefs and understandings.

Thanks.
~wild



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 
Wild, as I said at the beginning of the post: The wonders of the Universe have but dimly been revealed to us... so the quoted Scripture is the best option for anyone who is interested in the subject.

'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith, he did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he assign the idea particular significance in relation to the Church’s core doctrines. LDS theology believes in a God with a physical body so it is not surprising that one might speak of God's location in physical space. Thus, "Kolob" is introduced in a rather peripheral way in an effort to teach about the supremacy of God and that there is a hierarchy in all things.

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:
“The Lord made known to him the following facts: That Kolob is the first creation, and is nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. It is the first in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. This measurement is according to celestial time. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which by the Egyptians was called Jah-oh-eh.

Oliblish, so called by the Egyptians, stands next to Kolob in the grand governing creation near the celestial, or place where God resides.

This great star is also a governing star and is equal to Kolob in its revolutions and in its measuring of time. Other grand governing stars were also revealed to Abraham”



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by Janadele
 

Thank you, I appreciate it very much.

Now I know that LDS believe God is actually a physical "being"...do they believe he is some sort of super-human?



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by FractalChaos13242017
 


Kolob is in the mind of Joseph Smith. He made some interesting theories, but they were probably already circulated many times over before he was even born. People were already talking about the "Welsh Indians" and it is no surprise then that Joseph Smith would pick up on this and embellish the idea.

Welsh Indians

Joseph Smith recirculated the notion of a people in the Americas that were of the ancient Israelites. While it is quite possible for the ancient Israelites to have traveled, they have for a very long time, that does not mean they became the prevailing culture of the areas they went to.

LDS Teaching

Who are the Lamanites?

Kimball said, "You Polynesians of the Pacific are called Samoan or Maori, Tahitian or Hawaiian, according to your islands. There are probably sixty million of you on the two continents and on the Pacific Islands, all related by blood ties. The Lord calls you Lamanites, a name which has a pleasant ring, for many of the grandest people ever to live upon the earth were so called. In a limited sense, the name signifies the descendants of Laman and Lemuel, sons of your first American parent, Lehi; but you undoubtedly possess also the blood of the other sons, Sam, Nephi, and Jacob. And you likely have some Jewish blood from Mulek, son of Zedekiah, king of Judah. The name Lamanite distinguishes you from other peoples. It is not a name of derision or embarrassment, but one of which to be very proud." (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.596)


This really is a recirculation of previous theories.

And Kolob? Kolob

The first thing to note is this, Joseph Smith based this on a mistake. The Urim and Thummim were created in the time of Moses and part of the regalia of the high priest. There was no high priest in the time of Abraham and certainly no Urim and Thummim. Abraham never possessed them. So therefore, Kolob is described from a mistake.No Kolob.


We learn of Kolob from Abraham's account found in The Pearl of Great Price, one of the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. AND I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees; And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it; And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.


From what Joseph Smith is saying, he believes the throne of God is an astral body that has gravitational pull. Where is this Kolob in the star charts and when ancient peoples all looked to the heavens, why did they not pick up on this very important big one?



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by Janadele
 


You apparently are not aware of the most glaring mistake made by Joseph Smith. Abraham never possessed the Urim and Thummin. Those were stones that were part of the regalia worn by the high priest and created during the time of Moses. Abraham was never a high priest after the Mosaic tradition. The first one to possess the Urim and Thummim, was Aaron.


Exodus 28: 30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the Lord: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the Lord continually.

The preceding verses are too much to post but describe the high priest regalia.

This is the first time the Urim and Thummim are mentioned in the Bible so it stands to reason that when it is first applied, it was to be on the high priest alone. Abraham was never a high priest of the Mosaic law.

If Joseph Smith received correct revelation then it should be consistent with previous knowledge, if that knowledge comes from God. That's like a doctor calling a Femur a Flackenwacken, just because he thinks he can. ALL Mormon scripture is a lie based in lie told as a lie. Joseph Smith never received any revelation or gift of interpretation or golden plates from Moroni. Kolob is a lie. You would think that if Kolob did indeed exist it would be called that on star charts, it is not. There is not one reference in any ancient text, including the Egyptians, that designate Kolob as the closest to the throne of God.

Joesph Smith made this mistake because he did not know enough Bible scripture to back up his claims.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Janadele
 

Thank you, I appreciate it very much.

Now I know that LDS believe God is actually a physical "being"...do they believe he is some sort of super-human?




Wildtimes and I may sometimes be on opposite sides of agreement about certain things, but in this case I think we are slightly agreed.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Ephraim did make it to North America. Decalogues have been found in Blackfoot burial grounds and Cherokee burial grounds, ancient hebrew and paleo-hebrew writings have been found along cliffs at Ticonderoga and in the State of Georgia. Many Native Americans wore the Tzit-tzit on their clothes just as was commanded up till the early 1900's and many still do in rituals.





Joseph Smith was pimping off the bible, which is a historically accurate text.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by WarminIndy
 




Joseph Smith was pimping off the bible, which is a historically accurate text.


I think it is quite possible that some members of each tribe did end up somewhere. Certainly they would have left evidence if they did. But the second video shows something I would have to question. The man who wrote the book that was traveling down Lake Champlain probably jumped the gun a little bit. He says that he showed it to a man who had an interest in Hebrew. We know this was Paleo-Hebrew that he meant. I think he should have gotten the information from a Hebrew scholar instead.

Elder Futhark

Evolving Paleo-Hebrew

More Paleo-Hebrew

Development


There are letters found in the Decalogue that are not found in Paleo-Hebrew. Those I question about the origin.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Wildtimes and I may sometimes be on opposite sides of agreement about certain things, but in this case I think we are slightly agreed.


Thanks, Indy....
I'm not a bad guy, btw....(girl, actually)....



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Wildtimes and I may sometimes be on opposite sides of agreement about certain things, but in this case I think we are slightly agreed.


Thanks, Indy....
I'm not a bad guy, btw....(girl, actually)....


I am too, a girl....



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I am too, a girl....

Yep, I knew that!
Cheers!



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


These might help, there are alot of charts showing the evolution of modern language form the ancient forms. All languages both ancient and modern derived from the ancient master language of the progenitors.









This last one above has the evolution of Arabic in it and what appears to be Phoenician, Hebrew and Greek, read from right to left derived from Sumerian at the top.
edit on 13-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I like those pictures. They are so nice, I should print them out and frame them because they make a wonderful reference. While I was looking at them it reminded me of Korean script, how different from Chinese and Japanese and yet related.

Had Joseph Smith actually known what Hebrew looked like, it might have made a difference in his postulations. It is said the "Golden Plates" were in Reformed Egyptian and yet his supposed script is nothing like that.

The script supposed to be Reformed Egyptian


There is no such thing as Reformed Egyptian. At the time of the supposed movement of the Lamanites to the New World, hieroglyphics were still in use.

Hieroglyphs and Coptic
Perhaps he had seen some Coptic writing and there was quite a lot of interest in Egypt at the time.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I found an interesting thing on that website that I linked to, some of that script looks to be more like Oscan, an ancient group of people the Romans conquered. Oscan Tablet

I had never heard of the Oscan before, so am looking at it now. I could not save the pictures from this site but will when I can find information elsewhere.




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