What was God doing before creation and why did he wait an eternity to create the Universe.

There is no need for a god to create anything.

Gods were once thought to create lightening, then we worked out the science behind it. Gods were thought to have eaten the sun at night, then science explained it.....just because something cannot be instantly explained doesnt mean a sky fairy did anything.

Gods...meh, fairytales for adults.

reply to post by loves a conspiricy


God has been found to be the maker of what you call creation.
Have you found that this is not true? Do you know the truth?

I think God was on the phone with tech support for the Earth model kit he was trying to put together. "Your call is important to us. Please stay on the line. The next available agent will be right with you." An eternity later God finally gave up and put the model together with out the instructions. After about 6 days he got frustrated and went on to do something else.

Ahhhhh.... I wish I were not leaving for work right now, however when I get back in a few hours will check back in.

I really do enjoy thought provoking and opinionated threads where there is no right or wrong. Picking brains is somewhat akin to Gods thoughts as well.

I believe we are all connected to the chord just as music echoes in my soul!

Is time real or an illusion?

Before and after? How do we know time exists beyond the earthly realm?

I think we only have an inkling of knowledge and what we do have is miniscule to the entire picture whereas the knowledge of time and space may not be what we " see" as we know other dimensions exist right before us, yet.... We do not SEE them.

Much of what we experience is felt, so maybe everything we see is not what IS. What we feel may be more real than anything we could ever see. Our eyes and minds play tricks on us.

What if God has always existed, hence we all have existed. There is no need for before or after. We just are.

Our " souls" have always existed outside of time, however within time the human experience has a time limit. When this time limit is over we will have evolved and or transformed into something different.

Even before the " big bang" there was light and darkness, however we know even with dark space there is existence still swarming around. Light is everywhere.... Always has been and always will be.

If there was or has to be a beginning then my mind tells me we have to take into consideration the first thought of God, then I assume in order for God to be aware of himself and or think he first had to have an observer, otherwise he would not be aware he existed. Looking at it this way in regards to time ( a beginning) again we have always existed from the first thought of God. Without us he is nothing. Without him we are nothing..... Void.

I believe our brains ( mind) are so very limited we cannot wrap our minds around an idea without time.

When our bodies die the veil is lifted and we truly SEE who and what we are.

reply to post by DCLXVI


[color=gold] This would be a question ONLY the CREATOR could answer

But if it was a p$y*p$ to mind check my guess would be, what ARE LHC scientist doing as they create big bang experiments and what if energy is taking life PER EXPERIMENT?

reply to post by charles1952


You may wish to frame the discussion on other things but religion but in no way that is what the OP intended if so, as I said, he clearly chose very bard wording to put it in a pure discussion of physics.

Whatever the intention was there is clearly a mention and centralization on the concept of divinity, God. I'm a Pantheist, as such I find objectionable any attempt to supplant an unknown with yet another layer of abstraction and complexity, before we could understand or speculate about a God external to the universe we would be required to understand the universe at least at the moment of its creation. That is to define God as a creator of all and not simply all, something that I doubt that we will manage to get a glimpse in the next millennium at least, but that is something that I'm comfortable in not knowing, I defend that only God can in validity comprehend itself.

I also defend the view of the existence of a multiverse and in the holographic universe (multidimensional) and that we have a low vantage point due to our existence in a linear time.

In any case I do not see a point in derailing the thread more than I've already done in pointing that if the OP wishes to discuss God as a creator and if the universe was created he must first discuss what is the meaning of God in is view and what theory of the universe he is defending, that at least is a requirement to start any meaningful discussion.

I can admit a creator God (but do not require one). I however do not subscribe to a personal God nor to multiple or sub-divinities, but I could agree that all things are God. I also admit to dislike the idea of a God whose purposes will never be able do devise beyond the simplest basic laws that we are permitted to observe and even can admit that God may be reduced to a simple basic formula that is capable of generating all of reality, in all its complexity. In fact due to God's predilection for simplicity and entropy of complexity that path to divinity seems the most promising in comparison to a God that we could not ever be able to comprehend.

Everything is a process. A process isn't instant, otherwise it would be very boring. Snap your finger and suddenly everything is perfect? Imagine watching a movie like this: no plot, no reason, no struggle, nothing truly interesting... it'd be insanity to watch something like that for eternity.

So appose that to something with actual depth, variance, ups and downs, creativity, struggle, and all the other facets that make up the cosmos and everything within it. Watch and feel it grow, watch and feel it change, watch and feel it be intelligent, watch and feel it be stupid, etc. - and to truly do all that, you become it, because the whole point of it is to experience it all first hand, as only watching it or only feeling it would also become boring. The Hero's Journey and journey in general excites for a reason, and it's so much better to be there on the banks of a new world than to merely read about it in a newspaper. It's so much better to be present at the symphony than to hear reviews about it from a friend.

So here we are.

Originally posted by DCLXVI
This is a thought experiment, that you are a theist or atheist is irrelevant.



Our premise is that God created the Universe starting with the Big Bang and then followed cosmological evolution that eventually lead to biological evolution and to humans.

God being eternal WAS for an eternity before the creation of the Universe. This means that at the moment of Creation he had BEEN for an eternity. Why wait an eternity? what was he doing?

I like to think he was fantasizing about the creation to come, thinking of every single detail, of the emplacement of every quark,boson,hadron to follow the initial singularity. Building up enough power to initiate creation perhaps?

I hope i will get many reply related to the thought experiment and not so much about the premise of the experiment. If you just cannot pretend that a God created our Universe for the sake of this thread do not bother replying.

Can't wait to read the replies.

Every time i try to imagine God before creation, this is all i see.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/wy50289844.jpg[/atsimg]

In Eternity there is no time, it's the 3rd dimension. For Him time would be standing still while time flowed around Him like a river. A trillion years could pass by and it would be like a few days to Him. However, Time was not established until the stars were created.

Genesis 1:14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years

This files under one of those questions to ask Him when you see Him, if you see Him.

The "eternity" spent was his (God's) self-reflection and actualization. The "I am" An eternity dwelling on self-awareness.....

Questions like this really do demonstrate our total inability to understand a world without time.

Eternity isn't endless time - it's marked by the absence of time. As such, eternity isn't experienced durationally like linear time.

That being said, there was no "point in time" when God created. So to say He waited an eternity doesn't really make sense because if He did wait an eternity before creating, He'd still be waiting.

Even so, if time did exist in God's realm does it matter "when" He decided to create? If time did exist before creation and He created the universe immediately upon the advent of time - one could just as easily ask why He created the universe immediately as opposed to say waiting a couple million years. Idk ... great question but in the end I'm not sure how relevant it is. I'm sure He has His reasons of course, though I'm not sure how significant this particular answer would be to man.

Just my two pence. If you were lead to ask this question I wouldn't doubt that the answer could open some doors for you.

As they say - the right question IS the answer. Perhaps this was the right question for you.

Cheers,

FTE

reply to post by DCLXVI


My own opinion is that there was never a time when Source was just sitting and doing nothing. Just like one table of workers in a factory might go on break for 15 minutes, during that time there's eight other tables still hard at work, doing what they do. And just so, Source was busy on other planes at the same time our particular sector of reality was being developed...and even as we were being developed, I wouldn't be surprised if another was was collapsing or shifting to another plane of being to replace one that had graduated, and to make room for another that was also graduating. It's a cycle...every time one sector of reality or one plane shifts its frequency, there's one that's moving up ahead of it, and another that's moving up behind it.

Source is a very busy entity.

What makes you believe that this was the first and only creation??? Look at everything. Everything exists as part and parcel to a cycle. Everything is a cycle. But, humans just were not meant to know. It's called the great mystery and it will NEVER be revealed to us.

Originally posted by DCLXVI
Our premise is that God created the Universe starting with the Big Bang and then followed cosmological evolution that eventually lead to biological evolution and to humans.

We assume that the universe began because our mortal lives have a beginning. We assume that time is linear because we percieve time in a linear order. We assume the universe will eventually end because we are aware of our mortality.

What if I told you that there was no beginning and there will be no end, and that our universe has been expanding and contracting for eternity? This would imply that there was a beginning to our current cycle of the universe, the Nth iteration which "currently" exists, and that this cycle will eventually end, but also that before and after this cycle there have been an infinite number of other cycles of expansion and contraction...

But that falls outside of the scope of your question

God being eternal WAS for an eternity before the creation of the Universe. This means that at the moment of Creation he had BEEN for an eternity. Why wait an eternity? what was he doing?

Its hard for me to go back to this way of thinking; the idea that there was an eternity of "nothingness" before the universe was created. However it makes sense to me that "before" the universe existed that space and time did not exist, at least not as we know it...both are properties of this universe. I find it plausible that, if the universe hasn't existed in an eternal cycle, then the universe may have been created within a higher universe, or by interactions of other universes, and that time and space existed before, outside of this universe...but this is purely speculative stuff. In any case, no matter how many levels of existence there are I'm quite certain that it's all contained within a higher mind.

Anyway, I want to talk about time...

Here is a graphical representation using ASCII characters to show how we percieve the flow of time:

(-infinity)(end)

Fairly simple. From an objective linear standpoint all things can be seen to have a beginning and an end and all events in between. The present moment progresses from the beginning to the end of the event, one moment at a time:

Moment 1, 2, 3... Final moment

But what if we remove time from the equation? Try to imagine all the moments within an event happening at once.
For example, imagine yourself swatting a mosquito.
The initial moment would be the moment at which you notice the mosquito.
Then you bring your hand to a raised position to initiate the swatting motion.
Then you bring your hand down.
Your hand makes contact and crushes the mosquito.
In this event there are an innumerable amount of instantaneous moments, each one differing almost immeasurably from the last.
Try to imagine what it would look like if you superimpose each moment in this event into the space of one moment.
Your arm would be like a blur beginning at its original position and ending on top of the mosquito.

Now take this principle and imagine the entire universe, from beginning to end, superimposed as one moment.

This is what I imagine:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/wy50289844.jpg[/atsimg]

Pure light/energy

But that is only because my perception is limited to the mortal senses. We see only light through our eyes. Try to imagine being able to see the universe as one moment with perfect piercing clarity, down to each individual particle and its motion and being able to differentiate between particles and their motions...truly mind blowing stuff.

Understanding this is one of the keys to understanding the nature of God. Without time there is no before and no after, no beginning and no end.

reply to post by DCLXVI


Very interesting questions op , and among the ones I have pondered.

I also wonder how God came to understand His existence, and His power , and if he pondered His origin?

How did He understand that He always was ? How did He explain to Himself His power to create and to love ?

All thought provoking questions that only God has the answers for... and we can only wonder about and speculate on.

What was God doing before creation?

hmm... i do not believe in God, so i cant imagine what something i do not believe exist, can be doing, but i am doing fine i know that

and some of U here mention here the big bang theory.
first it is only the theory and there are some scientists who do think that BB never happen...

The Big Bang Never Happened Part 1
www.youtube.com...

good day to all

If god exists then i dont think very highly of him based on the bible. He probably lied. He probably isnt the first or only god.

reply to post by jude11
Translation = Don't ask silly questions that threaten my worldview ?
2nd line..

Here is your answer.
God is all knowing and sees the future and how everything will end. The day and time and everything why even bother making us? If he knew we were going to fight, have strife, make great discoveries and everything we have done why bother with us?
Because the angles needed a job! God was in heaven with his Angles before any worlds were created. They were all just hanging around up there with really nothing to do. One angle got bored and uppity and decided he could do a better job than God. He convinced some of the other angles to help him over throw God. This didn’t work so God threw them out of heaven. However God got to thinking about what happened and realized that that Angel needed a job. They were made for protection and had nothing to protect so he decided to make man. He created A planet and put “man” on it. He told the Angles they had to help protect man from the devil. Thus giving the Angels a job. Thousands of years passed and as man evolved they had wars and famine but they also had many technological and social discoveries and accomplishments. Eventually man no longer warred with each other. There was peace and prosperity for thousands of years. In that time man perfected space travel. Well because of this peace the Angles didn’t really have anything to do so they started grumbling again. Once again God created another planet, put “man” on it and started all over again with the angles protecting them. This cycle may have gone on for millions of years in many solar systems. Well the first man having perfected space travel comes to primitive man on a new planet and sees their own history. Trying to help ease some of their future strife, space man tries to help primitive man build cities and understand how the heavens, stars and universe all coexist. Because it’s primitive man they worship space man and make them their Gods. Space man sees this as bad and leaves “earth” vowing not to return until primitive man becomes modern man and can understand what is going on. They come back periodically to check on us to see where we are in our technology and thinking. Unfortunately we are all about kill first as questions later. When we are technologically advance and more forward thinking our space brethren will make themselves more known. Right now they are visiting us sporadically to see how we are doing and getting our minds use to their presence. Also this gives the Angels a job so that there is no more inner squabbling in heaven.
Eventually we will be at peace with ourselves and our space brethren and God will have to create another planet in another galaxy to give his angels something to do and we will be the astronauts’ they will worship and we will have to leave them alone to grow thus the cycle continue.

reply to post by DCLXVI


Since time did not exist before the creation of this universe, it is very difficult to communicate with words that invoke time (like what was He doing BEFORE creation). Maybe it's like the physicist saying that we cannot say much definite about the black hole point of singularity, since all the known laws of physics break down at that point -- there's only speculation (which may lead to real knowledge, though).

I also like to think of it all happening at once, and we superimpose time and causality to make sense of it. That's what the philosopher Kant argued so admirably for. This creates phenomena, and as for noumena (things as they really are) Kant argued that we should forget it, we're just not wired to know.

I also like to think that we are creating everything ourselves and hiding that fact from ourselves. There's a God, alright, but we were made in His image, so we have His most notable attribute, which is creative potency.

You're thinking in our perception of time, dependent of past, present and future. Basically, there's no such thing as past present or future. All that exists is the now. So if God is eternal, he's present in all of the 'nows', independent of whether we see it as past, present or future. So to what he was doing.. Whatever he's doing now?