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City says woman can't give free water to people in 112 degree weather......

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posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by snarky412
 


I am relieved that the issue was resolved without TOO much conflict...a sign that we're not COMPLETELY without rights, and that people in power are still willing to defend our rights. That gives me a small scrap of hope, at least.


That this had to happen in the first place, though...she bought the water, she had full authority to use it however she wanted to without infringing on other peoples' rights, and she decided to be charitable with it. If charity is against the law, by all the gods above and below, half of the officials at the White House should be behind bars! For both giving and accepting!

The day charity becomes illegal, is the day I will know that we are faced with two choices as a nation: revolution...or devolution.

edit on 13-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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2 things came to mind when reading this..

1 - being Arizona - maybe they (gov) were afraid some illegals would get a free handout
2 - because it was done as "a Christian" thing, maybe the lady was asking for 10% "donations" thus the need for a vendor permit



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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I doubt this story is valid. It is the new campaign for christians to make themselves out to be victims. It is starting to show up all over ats.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
I doubt this story is valid. It is the new campaign for christians to make themselves out to be victims. It is starting to show up all over ats.


Hey - it worked for another religious group. So much so that it's even illegal in some parts of the world to Form your Own Thoughts about events that transpired in the group's history.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by TXRabbit
 


After thousands of years of murder and oppression, no one will feel sorry for Christians anytime soon.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by VoidHawk
 

right! if you can't buy water you deserve to die......




posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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It's not some kind of example of government abuse, it's just a case of clinical stupidity. The fact that the idiot works for the local govt is nevertheless remarkable.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


"Clinical Stupidity"

Hehehe I like that very much.

I'm gonna borrow that sometime if you don't mind.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 

By that rationale the 30 year old boy who committed suicide up on the mountain on old 40 didn't really do it because NONE of the newpapers or tv stations around her mentioned it at all.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Did anybody see the source?

WND?

I'd be hard pressed to believe anything they say, unless an alternate source can be found with the same information. Usually there isn't.

~Tenth


This is a good point. Most of their articles either grossly skew reality, or are made up entirely - more of a "what if this happened" kind of scenario. Unfortunately, many people take WND's fantasies and misrepresentations of the truth at face value.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by snarky412
CITY SAYS CHRISTIANS CAN'T GIVE WATER TO THIRSTY

Once again, this takes place in Arizona and on a day where the temperature reached 112 degrees. The case developed in July during a “First Friday” festival when Dana Crow-Smith was giving “free bottles of cold water to passersby” on the public sidewalk “as a means of exercising her Christian beliefs.”


"According to a letter to the city from the Rutherford Institute, Rutherford’s president, John W. Whitehead, said in the letter the city’s actions are problematic, as they “not only violated Ms. Crow-Smith’s statutory and First Amendment rights to freely exercise her religion and Fourteenth Amendment due process rights,” they also were “unjustified under the city code itself".



“As these provisions are expressly limited to the sale of goods, they clearly do not apply to Ms. Crow-Smith’s act of giving away water. Thus, Inspector Grierson’s actions constitute a completely unjustified interference with an act of charity by a private citizen and a violation of Ms. Crow-Smith’s right to be free from interference with her fundamental liberty interests absent due process of law under the Fourteenth Amendment.”



"A resolution includes that the woman is supposed to receive a written apology, written assurance that the city will no longer interfere with such acts of charity and training for city officials so they understand the First Amendment".


www.wnd.com...



"It is a sad day when a person, who thinks of others by giving them cold water on a very hot day, is persecuted for a charitable act of kindness. And her religious faith should have no bearing what so ever".



ETA: Did quick search and didn't see this. Please remove if already posted......

ETA: Added new link to story......


edit on 12-8-2012 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-8-2012 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)


I totally agree.

My 1st question here is WHY is he saying her 14th Amendment due process rights ?
Is she African-American or black ? That would be appropriate.

If she is White the 14th Amendment does NOT apply here, but her 4th Amendment Rights would have been violated. In the most basic sense, she was not being allowed to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

The 14th Amendment only applies to africans or their descendants because it allowed for slavery to be taken away from white men and given over to the government. They are citizens of the UsA, not of the several states.
The UsA is defined as a corporation that occupies as 12 square mile area on the East Coast. That is where they are domiciled or home of residence.

edit on 8/13/2012 by Labrynth2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Inconceivable
I totally believe that this happened. For some reason, authorities hate when things are given away. Once, I was on lunch break, and a guy who was selling flowers was getting ready to close up. He had a whole bucket of flowers left over, and wanted to just get rid of them all. I asked him how much he would take for all of them, and he said I could have all of them for $5. I paid him the money, and I thought it would be nice to give the flowers away for free to help brighten people's day. Here I was giving flowers away on public property, with ladies thanking me and telling me how sweet it was, and a cop decides to come up and harass me. I told him I was not selling the flowers, but he said it didn't matter because I didn't have a license. He also told me that it is suspicious when a person just gives things away for free, and that "people just don't do that". He was rude and condescending, treating me as if I had just robbed or beat someone. He told me that I would be arrested if I did not stop, so I ended up throwing the flowers away. My day was ruined. My heart literally hurt, and I ended up crying after I told a friend about it. I thought I was doing something really nice, and here I get thanked by being harassed.

As the unfortunate lady found out, it just doesn't pay nowadays to give from your heart. It causes nothing but problems. Nice, caring and giving people are learning more and more that no good deed goes unpunished.




Mathew 24 v 12

12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14

This is in Mathew 24 where Christ is talking about the end times events. I used to think this as because of crime most people won't help others.....heck I myself am reluctent to help someone on the side of the road due to fear of crime.....BUT now, when it's practically legislated not to help...I think THATS the true wickedness.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

If this story is valid - then it's a perfect example of governmental abuse and should cause an outrage. Unfortunately I've Googled it every way till Sunday and cannot verify it locally in any Phoenix news source. So I remain skeptical.

~Heff


Yeah true, but at the same time, is it really something they want painted all over the media? It is a ridiculous law to start with and it really wouldn't do any of the accused any favours...



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by TXRabbit
 


After thousands of years of murder and oppression, no one will feel sorry for Christians anytime soon.


You speak like they are the only group n history who are guilty of those crimes.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Inconceivable
I totally believe that this happened. For some reason, authorities hate when things are given away. Once, I was on lunch break, and a guy who was selling flowers was getting ready to close up. He had a whole bucket of flowers left over, and wanted to just get rid of them all. I asked him how much he would take for all of them, and he said I could have all of them for $5. I paid him the money, and I thought it would be nice to give the flowers away for free to help brighten people's day. Here I was giving flowers away on public property, with ladies thanking me and telling me how sweet it was, and a cop decides to come up and harass me. I told him I was not selling the flowers, but he said it didn't matter because I didn't have a license. He also told me that it is suspicious when a person just gives things away for free, and that "people just don't do that". He was rude and condescending, treating me as if I had just robbed or beat someone. He told me that I would be arrested if I did not stop, so I ended up throwing the flowers away. My day was ruined. My heart literally hurt, and I ended up crying after I told a friend about it. I thought I was doing something really nice, and here I get thanked by being harassed.

As the unfortunate lady found out, it just doesn't pay nowadays to give from your heart. It causes nothing but problems. Nice, caring and giving people are learning more and more that no good deed goes unpunished.


Well, now, we don't want you going around and promoting anything, like say, kindness! How thoughtless of you to be thoughtful. There's no PROFIT in being nice by giving away things. If people went around giving things away, well, that might destroy the fabric of our society! People might actually get something that they didn't pay for! This could lead to people feeling good about giving, and then other people might feel grateful for recieving something. We can't have THAT now, can we???

This shows how cynical people have become. You have to have a license to give away flowers? The cop saying that the activity is "suspicious"...wow. What a prick. The cop also had a choice to be a human being, and forget about the technicalities of The Law ( which they selectively enforce based upon their mood or character in the first place ), and just let things be.

Cops are always whining about why people don't like them..why they aren't trusted and loved. Well, this would be one of those reasons.
Or, maybe this would be ANOTHER current reason to distrust these Bullies With A Badge:
www.cnn.com...#/video/bestoftv/2012/08/11/jvm-did-police-use-excessive-force-on-girl.cnn

The Koch Brothers and other conservative bastards ( yes, I question their parentage ) are pumping BILLIONS of dollars into PACs and other polarizing political interests ( and yes, the "Left" is guilty of the same funding tactics )...how many bottles of water would that have purchased?
How many homeless shelters could have been built? How many educational programs could have been implemented in under-served segments of society? How many community hospitals could have been built with all of the money that was spent on fighting for or against our National Healthcare legislation process?
Things are getting REDONKULOUS, folks.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Meh.. they could have arrested me. Im old, have some money, and can afford an atty. They would have learned real fast theyre just wasting their money trying to frivolously prosecute me
I do things that are "illegal" as far as city ordinance and all of that complete nonsense. I figure I can pay a fine or kick an atty a few bucks or ask forgiveness, cause it chafes me to ask permission for things that shouldnt be illegal IE edible landscaping, hen only chicken house, etc.. things like that. NOT paying the stupid yard sale permit fee.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by TXRabbit
 


After thousands of years of murder and oppression, no one will feel sorry for Christians anytime soon.


Who cares about feeling sorry for them? I see the issue here.. xtians involved or not. I dont care if its Thuggees carrying a garotte in their pocket.Cities and counties need to back the hell off of micromanaging everyone to generate revenue and controlling things they have no business putting their big fat noses into.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by snarky412
CITY SAYS CHRISTIANS CAN'T GIVE WATER TO THIRSTY

Once again, this takes place in Arizona and on a day where the temperature reached 112 degrees. The case developed in July during a “First Friday” festival when Dana Crow-Smith was giving “free bottles of cold water to passersby” on the public sidewalk “as a means of exercising her Christian beliefs.”


She “was moved” to offer the refreshment “to people at the festival who were braving the desert’s scorching 112-degree heat,” said the letter to city attorney Gary Verburg.

“According to Ms. Crow-Smith, her group was approached by Neighborhood Preservation Inspector Dwayne Grierson, who told them that they were violating the Phoenix City Code by giving away water without a vendor’s permit,” the letter explains. In fact, Grierson insisted that giving water away was “prohibited.”

The ban, however, violates several significant precedents, such as the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and Arizona’s Freedom of Religious Exercise Act, Rutherford officials wrote.


According to a letter to the city from the Rutherford Institute, Rutherford’s president, John W. Whitehead, said in the letter the city’s actions are problematic, as they “not only violated Ms. Crow-Smith’s statutory and First Amendment rights to freely exercise her religion and Fourteenth Amendment due process rights,” they also were “unjustified under the city code itself.


“As these provisions are expressly limited to the sale of goods, they clearly do not apply to Ms. Crow-Smith’s act of giving away water. Thus, Inspector Grierson’s actions constitute a completely unjustified interference with an act of charity by a private citizen and a violation of Ms. Crow-Smith’s right to be free from interference with her fundamental liberty interests absent due process of law under the Fourteenth Amendment.”


A resolution includes that the woman is supposed to receive a written apology, written assurance that the city will no longer interfere with such acts of charity and training for city officials so they understand the First Amendment.


www.wnd.com...


It is a sad day when a person, who thinks of others by giving them cold water on a very hot day, is persecuted for a charitable act of kindness. And her religious faith should have no bearing what so ever.




ETA: Did quick search and didn't see this. Please remove if already posted......

ETA: Added new link to story......


edit on 12-8-2012 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-8-2012 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)


Well, I knew right away this was another one of those pesky by-products of liberal government run amok just by the title of this tax-payer funded dolt, "Neighborhood Preservation Inspector"...

And in typical big-government liberal fashion, they didn't hire someone with intelligence. "Vending" is the act of exchanging currency, goods or services for another's currency, goods or services. GIVING AWAY water is NOT vending!


Rest assured, this was a shake-down based on someone's religious values - nothing more. So much for the First Ammendment. The liberal morons have re-written it to be Frredom FROM Religion when it was written to be Freedom OF Religion!

Liberals beware... God's gettin' pissed off!



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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OP wrote "City says woman can't give free water to people in 112 degree weather"

That's not the incendiary headline used by WND, the source for this tale. It wrote: "City: Christians can't give water to thirsty"

See how quick WND was to play the "religious persecution" card?



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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The Phoenix City Code that deals with street vending:

STREET VENDING - PDF File (phoenix.gov)

The code enforcer was just doing his/her job and probably overstepped his/her bounds by considering her an unlicensed vendor, instead of just someone giving away water. That doesn't mean the city was trying to persecute Christians the way WND is portraying it.



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