71-year-old taken to the ground for questioning Paul Ryan

Again, you resort to off topic arguments, and you're not even able to make a point concerning this thread and the video.

Sparky63 made his points quite clear. You just disagree, and resort to attacks instead. Sparky63 has laid out his discussion points in a straightforward manner. You just fail to listen.

Because if you listening and researched on Ryan, you would know that he is FOR policing the whole world.

...of which you have presented no evidence whatsoever. Talk about hypocrisy.

You're either a hypocrite, uninformed, or talking out your arse, I'm thinking, all of the above. You should take your own advice before talking about someone else's opinion in and about this thread.

More personal attacks against Sparky63, who hasn't done a thing wrong. Good grief.

Originally posted by acidsweep

Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by acidsweep

First of all, what does Biden have to do with this? Secondly, Biden is just as as Mr Ryan. You guys need better arguments, seriously.

First of all I reject the notion that Ryan did anything wrong.
But if people are going to feign outrage that a politician disrespected someone they better take a good hard look at their own candidates first and not be blinded by the rafter in their own eye. Clean up your own house before you attempt to clean up your neighbors..

B the way, I am not voting for Romney/Ryan but can clearly see the hypocrisy in this whole thread.

edit on 8/15/2012 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)

Again, you resort to off topic arguments, and you're not even able to make a point concerning this thread and the video. Clean up our house? YEP I AGREE. Because if you listening and researched on Ryan, you would know that he is FOR policing the whole world. You're either a hypocrite, uninformed, or talking out your arse, I'm thinking, all of the above. You should take your own advice before talking about someone else's opinion in and about this thread.

If it is off topic the mods can remove it, but I doubt that they will because my whole post was dealing with whether or not Ryan was disrespecting the screaming old man. Your personal attack is beneath you and unbecoming, but I have thick skin and am not easily offended. Tell you what I'll do. I'll watch the video again, consider the situation & context and make sure I am fully informed, that way I won't be talking out of my arse. If anything I see changes my opinion I will let you know. Thanks for the advise.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Again, you resort to off topic arguments, and you're not even able to make a point concerning this thread and the video.

Sparky63 made his points quite clear. You just disagree, and resort to attacks instead. Sparky63 has laid out his discussion points in a straightforward manner. You just fail to listen.

Because if you listening and researched on Ryan, you would know that he is FOR policing the whole world.

...of which you have presented no evidence whatsoever. Talk about hypocrisy.

You're either a hypocrite, uninformed, or talking out your arse, I'm thinking, all of the above. You should take your own advice before talking about someone else's opinion in and about this thread.

More personal attacks against Sparky63, who hasn't done a thing wrong. Good grief.

Don't attack me and my opinion and expect me to stay quiet, you should expect to get a full dose of it back in your face. His arguments had nothing to do with the video at hand. You pro Ryan (aka gullible bunch) will try and say anything just so you're louder than someone opposing your view. In fact, you guys even pulled bill maher into the discussion. I scoff at you, you guys aren't debating, your trying to force people to believe what you think is true.

All you guys can do is attack, deflect and go off topic so the real discussion is overshadowed. Lol. Grow up, and learn to debate like an adult.

It's clear as day from what's seen on the video. You guys even claim its propaganda from the opposing team, while having absolutely zero proof. That in itself shows how uneducated you guys are.

Btw, IF, and it's a big IF, this is propaganda, it's a two way street. I would welcome any videos/proof that other people in congress are doing the same thing. Why? Because the public needs to see it, and dismantle them from their positions if it's so.

Don't be so ignorant, and foolish to think otherwise. The truth will come out.

Well, 27 pages of posts is a little much to catch up on, but the most reprehensible part about this video is how Paul Ryan made such a cruel joke about this senior citizen.

I bet that all his future functions will have carefully screened audiences with a lot of planted cheering sections.

Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by Terminal1

My standards? Do you not think House of Representative members are servants?

edit on 15-8-2012 by Terminal1 because: redundancy

I agree that they are servants of the people, even they they don't act like it.

There were some that were. Congressman Boucher in my district was like that. I had actually shook his hand more than a few times over his 28 years of service. He served our district well and always a smile on his face when he talked to people and he was a fiscal conservative who did it right in bringing plenty of heavy to light businesses in this district over the years. His only crime was being a democrat in a slightly red district and being a long time incumbent. A Tea Party Congressman named Morgan Griffith took office and I have yet to see him or shake his hand. Not for lack of looking for the opportunity. He just doesn't come to this area much.


I was referring to the standard you mentioned in your post where you said,

He is required to show utmost respect to any citizen, especially who he represents directly, that wishes to ask him a question period. Full stop. End of transmission.

This is the standard I was asking about. I personally have never met a politician who fits that bill. And I have met a lot of politicians.

I've met a few myself. Almost got to shake President Reagan's hand at Ft. Campbell Kentucky and passed Bill Clinton's convoy on the beltway in Oklahoma City when he was going to deliver the speech when the Murray Building got blown up by Timothy but outside that most the politicians and officials have been local. I've played pinochle with town council members more than once too. Most all were good guys that knew the score. I knew enough locally to know that politics really IS local.

But I get your point. Right now most our politicians are on the extremes. I used to be Republican, unaffiliated now. What scares me about this is that it doesn't matter who is behind that podium. It is his job to engage with whoever comes before him especially if they reside in his district. I can see myself sitting in one of those chairs one day with a particular issue I want addressed. I wonder what I would have felt like at 71 watching others get ushered out so easily. However many people arrested... it doesn't matter. The point that I see is not only did 20+ votes walk out that door he demonized that one man with a piss poor joke. After 13 years in the House, you would have figured he would have gained a little statesman about him but apparently he didn't.

The ease of people getting kicked out is amazing. The security didn't have to go as far as it did either. This particular guy was no threat as soon as he was escorted out the first set of doors. The security could have easily just escorted him straight out the door and even given him a stiff shove off the property but they didn't. They put him to the ground, broken clavicle and all and cuffed him anyway. Yea... I've seen this story before. Don't taze me bro, ok? I mean if the 71 year old would have picked up a chair or been threatening I can see actions like that justified. What's next? Should we follow this trend to it's logical conclusion?

We really don't know the whole story because none of us were there. But from what I have seen let me to believe that Congressman Ryan, in my eyes, is not yet worthy of the VPOTUS. I won't argue saying that any of them are because none of them really are. But to see what I have seen of this instance just confirms a couple of conclusions I had about Congressman Ryan.

Originally posted by Sparky63
I repeated it because you kept asking me to explain myself. Now you criticize me for responding to your requests?

Repeating the same thing over and over again is not explaining it.

Here is where you questioned me:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you did not want to hear my opinion you should not have asked.

I heard your opinion and I asked about it further but all could do was repeat the same line over and over again. No, that did not help me understand you but I kept trying didn't I?

Look, I understand that you do not agree with me or my views, but that is life my friend. I may not agree with yours but I respect your opinion. There is no need to get testy about something that neither you nor I am personally involved in.
Can we not agree to respect each others views and move on? I think that would be in the true spirit of ATS.

I feel like when I ask someone to explain something further and all they do is repeat the thing I asked about over and over again, they are not giving me a lot of respect.

I apologize if you did not like my response to your questions. I only meant to honor your request & clarify my views so that there would be no misunderstanding.

edit on 8/15/2012 by Sparky63 because: added comment & spelling

Which you have not done at all.
I am not sure why you think repeating something helps make it more clear. What I am looking for is new information you did not already post 4 times.

you dare speak against the machine? fine but you'll pay the price.

His arguments had nothing to do with the video at hand.

I beg to differ. Sparky was sensible, and logical, and explanatory. You blew your top and attacked him personally, showing your lack of integrity and poor judgment. Goodness, brother, take a chill pill.

It's clear as day from what's seen on the video. You guys even claim its propaganda from the opposing team, while having absolutely zero proof.

Nonsense. The first video was heavily edited. Later in the thread, we see 2 more videos tied to the same speaking event. We see organized protesters in the streets picketing the event. We see 2-3 other protesters verbally attacking Paul Ryan at the speaking event, long before the 71 year old even voices his rant.

So, yes, this is a clear cut case of a smear campaign to discredit the candidate Paul Ryan. Clear as day.

Well, 27 pages of posts is a little much to catch up on, but the most reprehensible part about this video is how Paul Ryan made such a cruel joke about this senior citizen.

Please review all 3 videos posted before commenting. Thanks!

But from what I have seen let me to believe that Congressman Ryan, in my eyes, is not yet worthy of the VPOTUS.

I would caution you to avoid making a snap judgment about anyone from an edited YouTube video used as a political smear campaign.

Please look closely at Paul Ryan's voting record, education, past speeches, etc. before making any judgments. If after reviewing his history more in depth, then it would be appropriate to pass judgment.

For example, as I have stated in this thread, you have to ask yourself why so many Democrats vote for Paul Ryan time and time again? And why have so many Democrats, such as former Clinton White House Chief of Staff, Erskine Bowles, said such favorable praises about Paul Ryan? Read more here:

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Bowles says: “I always thought that I was okay with arithmetic. [Paul] can run circles around me, and he is honest, he is straightforward, he is sincere. And the budget that he came forward with is just like Paul Ryan. It is a sensible, straightforward, honest, serious budget and it cut the budget deficit just like we did, by $4 trillion... The President came out with his own plan and the President, as you remember, came out with a budget, and I don’t think anybody took that budget very seriously. The Senate voted against it 97 to nothing. He, therefore, after a lot of pressure from folks like me, he came out with a new budget framework, and in that new budget framework, he cut the budget deficit by $4 trillion over 12 years. And, to be candid, this $4 trillion cut was very heavily back-end loaded. So, if you looked at it on a 10-year basis and compared apples-to-apples, it really was about a two and a half trillion dollar cut.”

As stated earlier, Paul Ryan was publicly attacked verbally on 2-3 separate occasions before the 71 year old even started speaking. His joke was just that -- a lighthearted rib meant to break the tension in the room. It wasn't a demeaning comment - It was a halfhearted rib aimed at humor, and nothing more.

I am not sure why you think repeating something helps make it more clear. What I am looking for is new information you did not already post 4 times.

Maybe if you tried listening to him the first time, he might not have to repeat himself.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Nonsense. The first video was heavily edited. Later in the thread, we see 2 more videos tied to the same speaking event. We see organized protesters in the streets picketing the event. We see 2-3 other protesters verbally attacking Paul Ryan at the speaking event, long before the 71 year old even voices his rant.

So, yes, this is a clear cut case of a smear campaign to discredit the candidate Paul Ryan. Clear as day.

Where is the obvious link between this one old man and any organized protests? Unless you have that, you are lying.

Where is the obvious link between this one old man and any organized protests? Unless you have that, you are lying.

View all 3 videos from earlier in the thread - Original post contained 1 video, and on page 21 of the thread we see 2 more videos that tell the real story in its true context of an organized smear campaign.

The original poster showed only an edited version. The 71 year old was apparently the last of the Mohican agitators. This was clearly an orchestrated smear campaign by a whole host of agitators.

If all you did was watch the first video, you are missing the entire context of the charade. Here are the videos showing the full context:

1.) Original Video from page 1 of the thread with just the 71 year old: youtu.be...

2.) Protesters shown demonstrating outdoors in front of the meeting place, followed by woman standing up yelling at Ryan inside the private Rotary meeting, a second lady yelling at Ryan during the meeting, and a young man standing up and yelling during the meeting, then followed by the 71 year old: youtu.be...

According to this video, the narrator states that as many as 12 people shouted down Ryan while he was attempting to speak.

Three arrested. Charges? Per the narrator -- Trespassing, and resisting arrest. Again, this was a private Rotary meeting.

3.) Protesters outside, followed by white male interrupting Ryan, white female interrupting Ryan, and African-American male interrupting Ryan, followed lastly by the 71 year old protester. Go here - youtu.be...

And, actually, if you listen closely at 14 seconds of this video, and then at 1:16 of the video, you hear what appears to be the 71 year old's exact same distinct voice in both time slots. At 14 seconds, he appears to be outside with the protesters leading the chants over the loudspeaker, and at 1:16 of the video he is clearly now inside the meeting. (Sure would be nice to have some voice analytic experts on ATS confirm, eh?) If you look closely at the 71 year-old when he is being carted out of the meeting, he has a hat in his hand - the same hat he wore outside when he was leading the protests over the loudspeaker. He appears to be the exact same bloke that was wearing the hat and sunglasses leading the loud chants outside the meeting at 14 seconds of the video.

Here is what the police stated:

“The event was a private function, held on private property… The Whitnall Rotary was the host and in control of the banquet hall, thereby having the right to allow entry, refuse entry or demand that anyone be removed who they did not want there….We had a procedure in place where a member of the rotary — the property ‘owners’ for the event — would ask the unruly person to sit down and be quiet,” Wentlandt said. “If the person refused, then law enforcement would step in and make the same request. If the person continued to refuse, they were escorted out. If they did not resist, they were escorted to the doors and off the property. If they continued their behavior or resisted, they were arrested.”

So, yeah, before you start calling me a "liar", try reading the entire thread so we don't have to rehash the true context again and again. Apparently, there are some sensitive people on this thread that don't appreciate "repeating" the same story over and over.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
View all 3 videos from earlier in the thread - Original post contained 1 video, and on page 21 of the thread we see 2 more videos that tell the real story in its true context of an organized smear campaign.

That was quite a long post just to try and get me to feel the same way you feel.
Sorry, I asked for facts.
I am not much into feeling this one.
You say he was linked to a group of protesters then show me where that proof is.
Please do not make me waste that much time reading nothing again. Just offer up the proof. That is all I need.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

So, yeah, before you start calling me a "liar", try reading the entire thread so we don't have to rehash the true context again and again. Apparently, there are some sensitive people on this thread that don't appreciate "repeating" the same story over and over.

Well when someone asks someone explain something they said and all they can do is keep repeating what they said, it is a little stupid. Obviously that person has no idea what they are talking about since they cannot explain, just repeat. Besides, this is all saved here you know. There is no need to repeat anything. Do you like books that have repeated chapters in them? Sounds like the world is getting dumber and dumber by the day when they need text repeated and cannot understand the difference between explanation and repetition.

But hey, obviously since you took that little dig at me you know I have been following the thread.
Now you go get some facts and come back when you found some.

That was quite a long post just to try and get me to feel the same way you feel. Sorry, I asked for facts. I am not much into feeling this one. You say he was linked to a group of protesters then show me where that proof is.

The facts were clearly outlined above in my prior post. Since you have a problem reading, perhaps it would be easier for you to simply view all 3 videos linked above.

The 71 year old is seen on the loudspeaker outside amongst the other protesters, prior to him being thrown out of the meeting itself. So, yeah, it's evidence and proof all right - Just look at the videos and read my post with the corresponding explanation.

But hey, obviously since you took that little dig at me you know I have been following the thread. Now you go get some facts and come back when you found some.

See above. When you are ready to discuss the 3 videos, let me know. Thanks.

reply to post by pointr97


Looks more like he was put on the floor for resisting, when they tried removing him for his rude and disruptive behavior. He was resisting in the bit we see, before he leaves the room, then we don't even see what he does outside the room, and only see him on the floor. Rather a large leap to claim it was "for questioning", don't you think? His own behavior caused that to happen, not his words.

Put it this way; if some right-wing fellow did something like that at a speech given by a Democrat, or the president, and was removed, resisted, and brought to the floor to restrain, would you claim it was for their questioning the speaker, or for their resisting, and disruptive behavior?

The man could have waited for some question-and-answer session, instead of acting as he did. Initially, it looks as though they were simply trying to lead him from the room, so his temper, and the situation, didn't escalate.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Domo1
Meh. Joke didnt strike me as being in poor taste. I dont think it was intended as an age joke. More an anger joke. You cant have a nice little chat every time some jackaninny decides to get loud and speak out of turn. The gentleman could have waited for the Q and A and been respectful.

I'm a senior citizen on blood pressure medicine.

I don't consider it a joke.

I am not a senior citizen, and an on BP med as well, and it was a joke. Something to try and lighten a stressful moment. Not planned, not scripted, and not even necessarily intended to be mean. Heck, even a bit concerned, was what I heard. Plus, we do not see this man "slammed to the ground", or even taken down; we see him taken from the room, the camera pans elsewhere, then we see him on the floor. He did stand up at a time he should not have (bad manners if nothing else), and did resist as they were trying to escort him from the room. He could have, in fact, waited for a Q&A session, as suggested, and could have spoken up then. He chose to be rude, and to resist when he got a response. This doesn't in any way indicate some bias against seniors by the GOP, or even by Ryan. The man didn't even listen to all Ryan was saying before speaking out, either. I think Ryan handled it as well as anyone could. Same as I thought Obama handled it well when the fellow started yelling and calling him the Antichrist, and was removed. Had either man waited for a Q&A, and spoken up then, and THEN been removed, I would be outraged. Shouting out over a speaker, though, isn't in good form.

Originally posted by spacejosh
with the gop's plan the man won't have any blood pressure medication.also behind the jest lies the truth,Ryan showed his cards on this one.his reaction was degrading and disrespectful,and the cops used unnecessary force with no provocation.i hope a law suit is in order.

Well, with the current plan, and seniors told to find "alternatives" to medical treatment, he won't have any meds, either.

This man was trespassing, and disruptive, and resisting. "No provocation"? Trespassing alone is provocation for arrest. Criminal charges, too.

reply to post by Annee


That video was posted to YT on Sept. 7, 2011. Way before Ryan was pegged for the VP slot. What this is, is an attempt to vilify the man because he was pegged, not him showing anything. A video almost a year old, about a trespasser being removed from disrupting a speech. I think it shows the true colors of someone, but not Ryan.

Originally posted by yeahright
reply to post by elitegamer23

 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Not saying that at all. There's a protocol in place for ensuring everyone's able to speak up and it isn't just the biggest mouth who bludgeons their way in who gets heard.

You know, it wasn't all that long before this meeting that a congresswoman was shot up at a meeting in Arizona. You think that may have anything to do with how seriously the security detail responsible for these events take blatant disruption?

I can see where escorting him out only might not be the most sensible thing to do, when he could head to his car, get a gun, and come back.

Nope, after what happened, I'd have definitely taken him to the station at least until the meeting was over, do a little check on the guy, then release him into the wild if he didn't show up as a serial loon. That's called diligence.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Excellent point! Especially since they surely knew he was with that paid protest group, and thus could have been organized for some other motives as well. You are right on another point, too; that we all lose our voice if anyone can shout over anyone whenever they want. Great seeing a voice of reason in here!

Not just one, either, as Domo is thus far being most reasonable, too.
Stars for both, on many comments.

That video really breaks my heart. If you needed evidence that Paul Ryan gives exactly two [snipped] about the elderly, then this is it. That "blood pressure medicine" joke was so cold-hearted. This gentleman had something to say--and he was arrested for it. ARRESTED. I am so [snipped] mad right now. HE DID NOTHING WRONG.

I forgot to mention:

Isn't it just GREAT that at political rallies there are goons just WAITING to take your ass down. That gentleman couldn't even get a sentence out before he was arrested. I can't believe this. This is like Nazi Germany or Stalinist USSR. I simply can not believe it. I wonder, after seeing this gentleman being arrested, how the other audience members felt. I beet they were scared [snipped]less. But I hope they remember that fear on election day. But who can they vote or? GOD--we are so [snipped]! WHY?WHY?WHY?WHY?WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?