Twin Ancient Cultures On Opposite Sides Of The Pacific

Originally posted by Harte

And what would be the Phoenecian's motivation for sailing all the way across the Atlantic, and then going well inland, for copper or gold that was and still is in abundance in the area of the Mediterreanean and Europe?


It's true that they "could have." After all, it's not like such a thing is an absolute impossibility. But the question is "did they," not "could they."

Harte

Hello My Friend

The Phoenecian's Motivation was they guided King Solomon's Fleets through the arrangement with Hiram of Tyre.

Yeah, Yeah, I know. Heard it already. Did they??????

That will remain a Personal Interpretation, seeing that some believe the evidence remaining IS here, and some dismiss it without any hesitation as UN-Verifiable.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by Harte

And what would be the Phoenecian's motivation for sailing all the way across the Atlantic, and then going well inland, for copper or gold that was and still is in abundance in the area of the Mediterreanean and Europe?


It's true that they "could have." After all, it's not like such a thing is an absolute impossibility. But the question is "did they," not "could they."

Harte

Hello My Friend

The Phoenecian's Motivation was they guided King Solomon's Fleets through the arrangement with Hiram of Tyre.

Yeah, Yeah, I know. Heard it already. Did they??????

That will remain a Personal Interpretation, seeing that some believe the evidence remaining IS here, and some dismiss it without any hesitation as UN-Verifiable.

Ciao

Shane

What's the motive for transportation of trade goods anywhere, anytime? Financial wealth. What other motive could there be? Actually there is evidence they traded in the Americas.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by Harte

And what would be the Phoenecian's motivation for sailing all the way across the Atlantic, and then going well inland, for copper or gold that was and still is in abundance in the area of the Mediterreanean and Europe?


It's true that they "could have." After all, it's not like such a thing is an absolute impossibility. But the question is "did they," not "could they."

Harte

Hello My Friend

The Phoenecian's Motivation was they guided King Solomon's Fleets through the arrangement with Hiram of Tyre.

Yeah, Yeah, I know. Heard it already. Did they??????

That will remain a Personal Interpretation, seeing that some believe the evidence remaining IS here, and some dismiss it without any hesitation as UN-Verifiable.

Ciao

Shane

What's the motive for transportation of trade goods anywhere, anytime? Financial wealth. What other motive could there be? Actually there is evidence they traded in the Americas.

There is no such evidence of Pheonecian trade with the Americas. That's a fringe claim that is literally made up out of nothing at all.

Also, the region of the Med. is RICH with tin and copper. So is SW Asia. So is Europe.
Gold as well.

There was absolutely no need to travel across the Atlantic. So, again, what was the motivation?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by Harte

And what would be the Phoenecian's motivation for sailing all the way across the Atlantic, and then going well inland, for copper or gold that was and still is in abundance in the area of the Mediterreanean and Europe?


It's true that they "could have." After all, it's not like such a thing is an absolute impossibility. But the question is "did they," not "could they."

Harte

Hello My Friend

The Phoenecian's Motivation was they guided King Solomon's Fleets through the arrangement with Hiram of Tyre.

Yeah, Yeah, I know. Heard it already. Did they??????

That will remain a Personal Interpretation, seeing that some believe the evidence remaining IS here, and some dismiss it without any hesitation as UN-Verifiable.

Ciao

Shane

What's the motive for transportation of trade goods anywhere, anytime? Financial wealth. What other motive could there be? Actually there is evidence they traded in the Americas.

There is no such evidence of Pheonecian trade with the Americas. That's a fringe claim that is literally made up out of nothing at all.

Also, the region of the Med. is RICH with tin and copper. So is SW Asia. So is Europe.
Gold as well.

There was absolutely no need to travel across the Atlantic. So, again, what was the motivation?

Harte

I never implied what kind of trade goods. All I said was "transportation of trade goods". That trade could have been anything. There is evidence of Phoenician carvings and ship anchors in the Americas. It is really simplistic of us to think they were stuck in the Mediterranean for thousands of years. Yes, everything is a theory, but too many historians, archeologists and anthropologists are presenting more and more evidence every day.

I will not go out on a limb to justify British-Israelism, to replace Jews. But I will say this, even the Bible discusses the ancient people's traveling by ship. The two tribes Issachar and Zebulun were trade partners and Zebulun was blessed with wealth by sea travel. It does not say where they went, only that they became wealthy. If you read the blessings of Jacob(Israel) to his sons, he specifically says Issachar and Zebulun would be neighbors of Sidon. This is the ancient area known as the home of the Phoenicians.

When people talk about the lost tribes and where they went, somehow they weave a thread that includes only Levi, Judah and Ephraim, they forget about the others. Issachar and Zebulun were maritime traders long before Solomon.

The word we get the modern Jews from is those people living in Judea. Technically, the Jews we know today are predominantly from Levi. That does not make the other tribes less significant or less than Jews according to the blessing given to Abraham. It just does not make them Orthodox as we see the Levites today. That is the identity we will have to get away from when looking for other tribes. They may not look Orthodox but they will have the same genetic lines. Issachar and Zebulun, don't forget them.

Here is a map of Ocean currents This is from Miami University.
The South Equatorial Current goes right across the Atlantic from Africa to Brazil.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Harte
There is no such evidence of Pheonecian trade with the Americas. That's a fringe claim that is literally made up out of nothing at all.

Also, the region of the Med. is RICH with tin and copper. So is SW Asia. So is Europe.
Gold as well.

There was absolutely no need to travel across the Atlantic. So, again, what was the motivation?

Harte

I never implied what kind of trade goods. All I said was "transportation of trade goods".

Sorry. But that was the claim I was addressing, even if it wasn't yours.

I expect someone to bring up the copper mines in Michigan. I'm ready for that and a lot more.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
That trade could have been anything. There is evidence of Phoenician carvings and ship anchors in the Americas.

Only fantasy evidence.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
It is really simplistic of us to think they were stuck in the Mediterranean for thousands of years. Yes, everything is a theory, but too many historians, archeologists and anthropologists are presenting more and more evidence every day.

Very few people assert they were stuck anywhere. There is actual (albeit flimsy) evidence that they circumnavigated Africa. Similarly, there is evidence of them mining, or at least trading with miners, in northern Europe, i.e. Celtic tribes.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
I will not go out on a limb to justify British-Israelism, to replace Jews. But I will say this, even the Bible discusses the ancient people's traveling by ship. The two tribes Issachar and Zebulun were trade partners and Zebulun was blessed with wealth by sea travel. It does not say where they went, only that they became wealthy. If you read the blessings of Jacob(Israel) to his sons, he specifically says Issachar and Zebulun would be neighbors of Sidon. This is the ancient area known as the home of the Phoenicians.

The Phoenecians were supposed to be adept sailors, but we know that even they sailed by following a shoreline.

Don't forget, the Phoenecians existed within written history. We are, in fact, using a derivative of their alphabet right now. Do you really believe they traded in America and never said a word about it?

What (besides the metals I listed) would be valuable enough to pay for a transAtlantic trade voyage?

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Here is a map of Ocean currents This is from Miami University.
The South Equatorial Current goes right across the Atlantic from Africa to Brazil.

So, if the current carried them, which current carried them back?

Harte

Great post. There are also several major cultural similarities between the Mayans and the Egyptians too, even though both supposedly never met.

For me, the biggest conspiracy theory on the planet that no one ever talks about is what I believe to be a massive cover up in archaeology about the proper timeline of human development.

Most of the only records we have on human civilization (cities, etc) come since the last Ice Age, about 12,000 years ago, but there are plenty of sites that date to much older than this, suggesting quite advanced cultures existed a long time before the currently accepted version of human history.

Originally posted by babybunnies
For me, the biggest conspiracy theory on the planet that no one ever talks about is what I believe to be a massive cover up in archaeology about the proper timeline of human development.

How about some examples?

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Harte


Don't forget, the Phoenecians existed within written history. We are, in fact, using a derivative of their alphabet right now. Do you really believe they traded in America and never said a word about it?

What (besides the metals I listed) would be valuable enough to pay for a transAtlantic trade voyage?

Originally posted by WarminIndy



Harte

Jade, corn, slaves, anything. And how do we know they did not, did they call it America? Suppose they were not carried back, would that not mean they were stuck here when they came?

It might be nothing more than a theory, or it might be true. The problem comes when things are found here that make no sense being here.

The late Dr. Cyrus Gordon was a highly regarded archeologist and historian of modern times. A 1996 issue of the magazine, Biblical Archeologist, contained several articles devoted to his career and his many accomplishments. Dr. Gordon wrote the following about the Old World’s awareness of the New World. “The evidence points in the direction of an ancient maritime system of which the Mediterranean was only a part...This is reflected in the Timaeus of Plato, which tells of an...ancient Atlantic Order with interests extending from America into the Mediterranean. It is futile to...forget his plain reference to the continent that seals off the Atlantic Ocean on the West. This continent — which Plato mentions without more ado because it was well known to his reading public — can only be America.”

Here is an interesting site, that might help a little....Phoenician Maritime Skills

What would you call John in Egyptian? Would it be John? In Spanish it is Juan, in French it is Jean, but what would it be in a non-Latin based language. So we see David in Hebrew, and Dawood in Arabic. From history we see names that are written in the language of the writer, so if in his language he says your name is Hirate, instead of the English Harte, does it make you a different person? So we have to understand the languages that were written. I think those of Zebulun did sail the world and brought back plenty.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by HarteDon't forget, the Phoenecians existed within written history. We are, in fact, using a derivative of their alphabet right now. Do you really believe they traded in America and never said a word about it?

What (besides the metals I listed) would be valuable enough to pay for a transAtlantic trade voyage?

Harte

Jade, corn, slaves, anything. And how do we know they did not, did they call it America? Suppose they were not carried back, would that not mean they were stuck here when they came?

They "might have" sailed to the New World. They "might have" brought back jade, corn or slaves.
"Might have," again, is meaningless. After all, we're not talking about "might have" here. You have asserted that they did.

Re. jade, chemical analysis would show the origin of any jade found to have been from the Americas. Are you aware of any such analysis?

re. corn. Do you believe corn was brought back and simply eaten? I ask because I would think it would be planted, wouldn't it? Otherwise, why make the trip. So, where is the Phoenician corn? The Phoenicians were almost the breadbasket of the Mediterreanean in their time. There are records of wheat harvests and shipments, etc. But there's no record of any corn being grown anywhere in the Old World. Why not?

Re. slaves.
How do a bunch of Native Americans exist in ancient times in the Old World without a trace of them in anyone's DNA? Were they celibate slaves? Wouldn't that be stupid? I mean, it's cheaper (and safer) to raise more slaves than to sail halfway around the world to capture more when yours get too old to work.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

The late Dr. Cyrus Gordon was a highly regarded archeologist and historian of modern times. A 1996 issue of the magazine, Biblical Archeologist, contained several articles devoted to his career and his many accomplishments. Dr. Gordon wrote the following about the Old World’s awareness of the New World. “The evidence points in the direction of an ancient maritime system of which the Mediterranean was only a part...This is reflected in the Timaeus of Plato, which tells of an...ancient Atlantic Order with interests extending from America into the Mediterranean. It is futile to...forget his plain reference to the continent that seals off the Atlantic Ocean on the West. This continent — which Plato mentions without more ado because it was well known to his reading public — can only be America.”

It's a given that Plato's Atlantis appears to indicate some transatlantic culture. However, Plato's Atlantis also indicates a war between the Atlanteans and the Athenians, at a time when Athens didn't exist.

Also mentioned in Plato's tale is the "fact" that the Egyptian town of Sais was founded (by Athena) 9,000 years before Solon was born. Do you also believe this?

Do you believe the Athenians of 12,000 BCE had horses, chariots and bronze weapons?

Why not?

Obviously, because it's not the truth.

Hence, why would anyone take on faith that Atlantis even existed?

Dr. Gordon was an esteemed scholar, but he based much of what he thought concerning early transatlantic travel on the Las Lunas Decalogue and the Bat Creek Stone.

Both of the above are obvious fakes. Sorry, Dr. Gordon.

If you'd like more info on why these are frauds, try Doug's Archaeology site.

Doug is a member here and one of the mods over at The Hall of Ma'at forum (or used to be.)

It should be noted that, as a Biblical Archaeologist, Gordon, like most of his field, was notoriously biased and had a penchant for deciding what he would find before he even began looking for it.

Every word of this post I have written is the flat-out truth - not an opinion. You don't have to believe it, but that doesn't change the fact of it.

Harte

For further discussion

io9.com...

reply to post by Harte


Best debunking methods ever....Accuse anything that doesn't agree with your evidence, as being fake....Bravo...I am so happy to see this. I will make another thread further about this connection Harte, and I would like to see you disprove that as well..

I would like to point out that in both of the links you submitted, neither determined or proposed that either of the artifacts were fake or hoax's. The only thing even related is the 'conclusion' that the writing of the Bat Creek Stone was NOT paleo-hebrew. It doesn't say some 35 year old man in his mother's basement concocted it in order to get attention and perpetrate a hoax. The stone along with the inscription is a fact, what the inscription is has not been determined, fact. Los Lunas is not a 'fake' either, as it really exists, and the only controversy is over whether or not it contains some form of paleo-hebrew..

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Harte

 

Best debunking methods ever....Accuse anything that doesn't agree with your evidence, as being fake....Bravo...I am so happy to see this. I will make another thread further about this connection Harte, and I would like to see you disprove that as well..

So, you didn't go to the doug's archaeology link?

I told you to look there to see why these are frauds.

The term "Biblical Archaeology" doesn't raise red flags for you?

I'm not surprised.

Perhaps you don't know how science works.

That's not exactly surprising either.

My statements about Gordon are perfectly valid and verifiable. Did you try to do so?

Again, not surprising.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
I would like to point out that in both of the links you submitted, neither determined or proposed that either of the artifacts were fake or hoax's. The only thing even related is the 'conclusion' that the writing of the Bat Creek Stone was NOT paleo-hebrew. It doesn't say some 35 year old man in his mother's basement concocted it in order to get attention and perpetrate a hoax.
The stone along with the inscription is a fact, what the inscription is has not been determined, fact. Los Lunas is not a 'fake' either, as it really exists, and the only controversy is over whether or not it contains some form of paleo-hebrew..

The actual term is pious fraud.

The Las Lunas stone, written in ancient Hebrew, includes a "caret" (insertion mark) where the writer had to insert something he forgot to put in.

The caret insertion mark dates the stone. Ancient hebrew doesn't use caret marks.

The website I directed you to calls both of them frauds, using the term "fraud" and the term "fake."

The Las Lunas stone is a fake ancient Hebrew carving. Yes, it is a real stone. Did I claim it was a fake stone?

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Funny enough I'm not on some 'Biblical Archaeology'...I'm not even a Christian as my avatar would plainly tell you that.

reply to post by WarminIndy


While I do tend to agree with your side of the discussion here, I was hoping I had a better conx, yesterday. I wanted to let you know, not to Utilize terms such as " Biblical Archaeologist" in ATS. It doesn't sit well within the craw of many here, as Harte amply indicated.

You see, "Biblical Archaeologist" have hidden agendas. No one else does, but Biblical Anything is skewed based solely on the aspect that it counters previously hidden agendas created by others who wish the status quo to remain as it is today.

I find it curious to think that a name such a Barry Fell, and his work "America B.C." is full of nothing but lies and trumped up forgeries and many other adjectives denoting deceit, which of course is the realm on one on this planet, but that's another topic for another section here.

Point is, you would think a Fellow with a brain, who objectively looked at items, and offered his interpretation, along with detailing these things for consideration, is just dismissed, period. It seems more like a fear, of some sort, but hey, that debate or discussion will never occur in this section of ATS.

As for the trade in "denial" indicators are here, and in the Old World.

I tend to think those indicators offer more realistic interpretations of what occurred, than what is currently being presented as TRUTH and TAUGHT TO OUR OFFSPRING.

We can look at a Phoenician site and see it is plausible.

Ocean-going Ships

Nor were these boats tiny. The galley fighting ships, with their rows of galley oars, could have a crew of over a hundred people. That is a pretty good size. But even those were small compared to the Phoenician cargo ships with their vast, rounded hulls. These ocean-going ships were built for huge loads and long hauls. They made the extended trips from Mediterranean ports out to Cadiz, Lixis and other destinations on the Atlantic Ocean coasts of Spain and Morocco, and had to make each trip count.

People have remarked that those cargo ships which sailed the seas for many hundreds of years B.C. were comparable in size to the ones Columbus sailed to America in 1492 A.D. Thor Heyerdahl, the modern-day explorer, noted that the Phoenicians could have sailed to Central America themselves. I don't know if they did or not, but well-informed people see it as being within the capabilities of Phoenician ships and navigators.That is quite a compliment to these early people of the sea and what they were able to accomplish.

Within a similar site discussing Solomon and his Navy, we find the following:

Written records verify trading patterns of the Egyptians included travel through the Red Sea to sub-Saharan Africa as far a Somalia, along the western coast as early 2450BCE. The fact that trade was conducted south makes it easy to speculate that similar length journeys would have been made into Mediterranean basin. The most adventuresome of estimates suggest that the Negroid features found on sculptures in Messo-America are due to the fact Africans did indeed arrive by sea in the western hemisphere as early as 1700BCE.

Both of these show, plausible Atlantic Ocean crossing was within the realm reality.

So, who is being discussed? The Navigators, and the Vessel's Owner. The Phoenicians and Solomon.

I have wondered about this verse.

Isaiah 60: 9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.

Now, I am no longer wondering, but surmising. (Thank's for poking Harte )

Tarshish is an KNOWN locale.

So, where in the world would someone sailing in the Atlantic run across the noted items in one venture?

I am going to run out of space, which happens a lot to me, so we'll pickup from HERE.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


Picking up from HERE, we should start looking, with eye's wide open.

Gold, and Silver they say.

I found the following while reviewing Nevada and it's Gold History. I found it very interesting, because it speaks volumes to this subject of Cross Atlantic dealings between the Old World and the New World, which it appears, isn't all that "New". Here in an Wiki page on the Cortez Mine in Nevada.

Native Americans

The Timbisha Shoshone Tribe are calling for a stop to the Cortez Hills expansion, saying it the damage that will be done to the land is irreversible and prevent the use of the lands for religious purposes. Barrick had taken part in a collaborative agreement with leaders of the four remaining Shoshone Tribes.[1]

A preliminary injunction requested by Western Shoshone activists was placed on Barrick to prevent the company from developing the Cortez Hills Mine expansion. Although the request was denied at the district level, a preliminary injunction was issued by the 9th Circuit, which could stop the project completely if the judge determines the project would cause the environment irreversible damage and restrict the religious freedom of the Western Shoshone. The focal point is Mount Tenabo (of which Barrick would be mining the flank of, should the Cortez Hills Mine proceed as planned) and whether it is significant to the Western Shoshone culture as claimed. Barrick lawyers maintain that Mount Tenabo has been mined since 1862.[6]

Here we have Native Americans claiming what they deem as theirs, which is a completely understandable situation, and more power to them.

God bless the Shoshone.

But wait, there's something out of the Forbidden Book of Knowledge, (aka America B.C.), I remembered about the Wondrous Shoshone Peoples. What was it?????? Oh Yeah, know I found it.

Here are a few examples of Amerindians; Shoshone, Mohave, Crow, Crow and Zuni, showing that the Boundaries between people on the either side of the Atlantic is not as great as some would like to make out. (Interestingly the ancestry of the Shoshone becomes a little clearer when we see that a 22nd dynasty Egyptian king from ~1,000BC was King Shishong/Shosheng. This is not a coincidence - see Egyptian inscriptions in America . Barry Fell shows an inscription found in Texas, etched in the Libyan language using the Ogam alphabet, which tells of the arrival of the crew of a ship belonging to king Shishong). For a tribe to take on the name of a Pharaoh suggests to me that some sort of influence/inspiration has taken place between these two groups of people. The other possibility is that; when the Bronze Age catastrophically collapsed, America entered a long period of isolation from the old world, survivors of outlying Egyptian colonies then assimilated with Native American tribes - reinventing themselves with only fragments of their past intact.

Could Egypt, have been here?

Explorations and settlements in ancient America would logically be concentrated on major inland waterways, and evidence of their presence has been found in such locales. A major archeological find, a stele inscribed with ancient Old World languages, was found in 1877 in a burial mound near Davenport, Iowa. Unfortunately, this New World equivalent of the Rosetta Stone was largely ignored because no one could read it. The false dogma that no Old World explorers prior to Columbus could have been on our continent also affected people’s perceptions. If it had been discovered in Europe, it would surely have been recognized for what it was: a tri-lingual archeological stele of ancient cultures. Since it was found in the American Midwest, it had to wait approximately a century to be appreciated. Surprisingly, one of the reasons the stele was initially rejected was that it contained “some signs resembling Hebrew and others resembling Phoenician.”

This ancient stele contains joint inscriptions in three ancient languages: Iberian-Punic (a language related to and descended from Phoenician-Hebrew), Egyptian, and ancient Libyan.45 These are the language groups of the triple alliance that the Bible reveals began in the reign of Solomon! Since this ancient stele confirms these groups were traveling and working together in the interior of North America, it indicates that this alliance not only existed but also had a global reach!

Indeed, Dr. Fell described this stele, shown above, as “one of the most important steles ever discovered.”46 Why then, is this priceless evidence of ancient exploration in North America not featured in history textbooks? Again, we are confronted by the refusal of modern academia to accept the obvious because of their devotion to the false dogma that nobody could have discovered America before Columbus. ‘

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


Space, space, space.

I felt obligated to offer the link for the latter part of the previous post. it can be found at
Phoenician Maritime Skills

Remember, they are the Navigators.

More will flow, but it is nap time.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Harte

 

Funny enough I'm not on some 'Biblical Archaeology'...I'm not even a Christian as my avatar would plainly tell you that.

As my buddy Shane indicated, I was referring to your source, and not to yourself.

Shane,
Barry Fell was a marine biologist. He was not an "expert" in any ancient languages, and once translated what he called "Ogham" over the telephone based on verbal descriptions!

The "Ogham" in that case turned out to be part of an old sign made for a ranch!

Fell operated at a disadvantage, though. If everything he believed were true, then it would show up in mtDNA analyses, something that was unavailable to Fell.

Fell founded the Epigraphic Society. However, the Epigraphic Society eventually kicked him out.

Lastly, are you certain that in the Bible verse you quoted, the meaning of the terms "gold" and "silver" should be taken literally? If so, you are aware, aren't you, that gold and silver are mined in many different locations in the Old World?

Harte

Originally posted by Shane

Again, we are confronted by the refusal of modern academia to accept the obvious because of their devotion to the false dogma that nobody could have discovered America before Columbus.

Really? Does anybody besides the organizing committee of a Columbus Day parade still think so? That alone defines the validity of the claims. And Fell? It was once explained to me that "As an epigrapher, Barry Fell was one heck of a marine biologist."

reply to post by Shane

Interestingly the ancestry of the Shoshone becomes a little clearer when we see that a 22nd dynasty Egyptian king from ~1,000BC was King Shishong/Shosheng. This is not a coincidence - see Egyptian inscriptions in America . Barry Fell shows an inscription found in Texas, etched in the Libyan language using the Ogam alphabet, which tells of the arrival of the crew of a ship belonging to king Shishong). For a tribe to take on the name of a Pharaoh suggests to me that some sort of influence/inspiration has taken place between these two groups otf people. The other possibility is that; when the Bronze Age catastrophically collapsed, America entered a long period of isolation from the old world, survivors of outlying Egyptian colonies then assimilated with Native American tribes - reinventing themselves with only fragments of their past intact.

You have got to be kidding , the shoshone took their name from an Egyptian ruler? That is one of the most ludicrous things I've read in a long time.
Shoshone means, " The inland people" or " the people of the valley" refering to the Snake river valley in Idaho.
www.shoshoneindian.com...
The shoshone and related tribes, utes, piutes, mono, and comanche ( Owens valley piute) are descended from some of the first peoples to penetrate the interior of the western us. Their languages predate Egyptian culture by thousands of years, and the inland people moniker attests to thier inland lifestyle as seem by thier coastal river valley distant cousins, the penutian speakers, such as the miwok and yokuts
Even though the two language families separated more than 7000 years ago , thats how long the miwoks are known to have been in the central valley of California, the yokuts and miwok could understand a little of the mono(western shoshone), who came into central cal mtns via the san joaquin river canyon from the east side of the sierra.
An interesting side note, the miwoks and yokuts would say that the mono, whom they could barely understand,spoke badly because they were the last to recieve the gift of stolen fire, and live high up in the mtns where the cold made their teeth constantly chatter.

reply to post by Shane


I never actually used the term "Biblical Archeologist". I don't think I did, anyway. I merely pointed out what the historical views of the Bible are.

It is amusing to me how people say the Bible is historically inaccurate, and yet it names real people and real events that have been proven. Yes, all Biblical Archeologists have an agenda... But no one questions the Egyptologists in their quests.

While Harte mentioned DNA testing, I wanted to address that. We know that Native Americans living on the West Coast share DNA with Siberians, no big surprise there, but DNA testing on Eastern Tribes show a much different picture.

In 1997, a fifth mtDNA haplogroup was identified in Native Americans. This group, called ‘"X," is present in three percent of living Native Americans. Haplogroup X was not then found in Asia, but was found only in Europe and the Middle East where two to four percent of the population carry it. In those areas, the X haplogroup has primarily been found in parts of Spain, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy, and Israel. In July 2001, a research letter was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics, relating that a few people with the ‘X' type had been identified in a tribe located in extreme southern Siberia.

H, I, J, K, N, R, T, U, V, W, X: Indo-European A, B, C, D, X: Native American/Asian L: African M, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, O, P, Q, Z: East Asian P, Q: Oceana, Pacific Islands, Papua New Guinea N: Australian Article Source: EzineArticles.com...

Native Americans share four haplotypes with Africa and one with East Asian, except for the X, which is shared in Indo-European.

That is just one reference to Haplotypes.

Y-chromosome Haplogroups: • B, E: Found in Sub-Saharan African Lineages •E,G,H, I, J and R: Found in lineages from Europe, Middle East and Asia • C,D,N,O,Q and R: Found in the Asian populations • P,Q and F: Found in native American lineages

The mt DNA Haplogroups: • L1, L2 and L3: Found in Sub-Saharan African Lineages • H, I, J, K,T,U,V,W and X: Found in nearly all lineages from Europe, East African and Western Asian Caucasian • X is a native American, Asian, and European haplogroup • A, B, C, D, E, F, G and M: Found in the majority of the Asian or Native American lineages

X, which is the mtDNA, is found in Native American, Asian AND European. DNA References

Native Americans appear to be as mixed as any other group of people. It could then be easily assumed their ancestors came from more than just Siberia.

Shane, I appreciate your advice. I have been on here long enough to know that anything related to the Bible is frowned upon, because it "offers no historical accuracy" at all.