For Adults who refuse to grow up, Is Christianity the Adult version for Santa Clauss, page 4

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 04:18 PM

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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'd like to add something I think is very important here, on this topic....going to the OP.

I've been a debater and obnoxious little bunny since I was a teenager and, back then, I'd mix it up with religion and directly opposing religious people. See if I could shake there Faith... I'm ashamed of it now and I won that debate. Once. It's the last time I ever had the debate with anyone where it wasn't all being treated academically.

Winning that debate just about ruined the guy, and I'd called him a friend. Winning my point and cause, took all he had for his. I learned something from that about how, for some people, Faith isn't a crutch. It's the center they base their lives and happiness around. With the exception of those who go radical and hurt others, I don't honestly see the problem. If someone worships a Kumquat and names it George, it really isn't my business...unless they push that wacky crap on me.

I also watched my Father die hard from cancer. Unlike many these days, he was a very strong Born Again Believer. We agreed to just not talk about some things....but he died with such strength and peace I can't imagine. His Faith is what gave him that.....

It just don't seem any of us should have the right to so directly challenge and insult what others take so much from in their own lives. Real or not....Right or wrong. So long as no one else is getting hurt.

(hops off soapbox)

That is an interesting story to relate and sorry to hear about your father's death being part of this issue's discussion. I know this hits home for you with many heart felt rememberances.

I have spoken to a number of Masons, who went through the Scottish Rite process, which is basically about education in religion. Some of them tell they almost committed suicide because they learned the evidence that much of the religious teachings were wrong and they believed they were lied to.

Obviously, they survived the depression and lived to tell of their experiences. And after the fact, they also support they learned to be better men from that process. They all feel they received a gift of higher truth, and that highest truth is their bond forever.

The Churches would ban many that joined the Masons and the Masons even had to invent the York Rite to get the churches to allow Christians to join the Masons. York Rite stems from the area that Constantine lived and the orgin of the Christian Dominace for Rome's religion. York Rite teaches the age of Christian dominance in the Holy Roman Empire.

It is hard for some that have been taught one thing, which for them became a truth, because the whole thing was not couched in the better term of theory. Christians are not taught faith, they are taught their faith is a reality. Which is where the problems stems from these disillusionment of truth discovery.

What you would tend to support is let them live in their illusion because it gives their mind some reward, like serotonin, and just ignore that they depart from reality and try to cause others to do the same.

Should we all live in a make believe world, or one that supports a common truth and peace based upon that common understanding. Should ignorance be allowed to rule, or should highest truth be the mark of excellence.

Surely, this is the issues for the End-Time issue, where rapture is finding this sort of truth and the wrong concepts of religions, and the process of Revelation is the establisment of this greater knowledge and letting go of the Santa Clauss style myths from religion.

While I understand your concerns, I have to support highest truth over that of a make believe world that causes differences, wars, accumulation of wealth due to those wars, and failure to respect a truthful common ground for world peace.

edit on 12-8-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Religion has runs its course and these times are a changing.

zarp3333

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 05:20 PM

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Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by zarp3333

Your posts have much wisdom..

Thank you for sharing your thoughts...I do enjoy reading them , and am inspired by them.

Thanks for your kind words. I am smiling now. I feel happy. If I saw your car broken down on the side of the road at 2:00 am in a thunderstorm, I would happily get out and change your tire.

Think about that for a moment. In a perfect world, I should pull over for anybody and get soaking wet and tired. I am however human. I have feelings and shortcomings. To me, the purpose of all religious philosophies is to rise up above our human condition and do not what is easy but do what is right.

When I see so many threads hammering Christians, I automatically ask myself if the purpose behind the thread is born out of a desire to bring us all more closely together, to discuss and debate our differences so we might better understand each other or is it something else, something just the opposite.

I believe there is a place for evil in this world. It is part of the test, part of the game. Games would be a waste of te if there were no rules or consequences for breaking them. That being said, I believe to the core of my soul that there is an entity known by many names who has been placed on this earth to lead the dark side of hatred and sin. He has been placed here by God in all of Gods wisdom and is just as integral to the game as Jesus.

Without Satan, there would be no need for Jesus or Buhda or Morhamed or Martin Luther King or the saints. We would all love each other and live lives of overflowing gratitude giving glory to God who created us. I don't know about you, but that strikes me as boring as crap.

Where's the learning opportunity? What difference would it make if I stopped to change your tire if there were a line of cars waiting to do the very same thing?

Maybe I'm insulted by all the anti Christian threads because they are too obvious, too easy to peg as disingenuous and having nothing to do with the stated titles? Maybe it's me trying to protect my fellow ATS members from a threat I have presumed they are not as able as I am to see right through? Maybe there are people who really believe another crusades is just around the corner and that religions by their very nature should be immune from being hijacked by human beings to forward personal needs over loving of ones neighbor?

I guess I am really just very niaeve and have misjudged those I have called paid trolls or unwitting agents for the dark one? Or maybe not?

ResearchEverything777

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 05:28 PM

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reply to post by MagnumOpus

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

www.theomatics.com...

www.biblemaths.com...

www.bibleprobe.com...

edit on 12-8-2012 by ResearchEverything777 because: post link

MagnumOpus

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:01 PM

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Originally posted by zarp3333
Where does all your hatred come from? What benefit does it bring? If having faith in Santa Claus makes people feel good what difference does it make to you?

Are you here to save people from themselves. Don't you see the irony in that you pathetic fools. What you are saying is that Christians are so stupid that they cannot tell the difference between a common fairytale and what YOU define as a fairytale. So in essence you are here on ATS as a savior.

How long till you expect people to refer to you as saviors? "Oh thank God, some bitter genius saved me from believing in a fairytale. I'm so lucky to have found this thread."

Why not trying live and let live? What are you trying to prove? Go to bed before your mommy finds you speaking with strangers on the Internet and puts new restrictions on your computer.

There is a world of difference in how you think and how I do. I don't have any faith in Santa, because I recognize his story as a fiction and so does everyone else. The truth is Santa is a drama production every year.

I tend to use the more accurate literal terms that contain the truth, rather than calling Santa as having faith in something that is make believe.

I don't think anyone would call me a savior, nor have I ever claimed to be one, or want to be. This is your embellishments because you don't like this little Christian Web sites story on the problems with Santa Clauss and having kids start out with belief in fairy tales.

I do see you are very much into name calling for anyone that dare question Christian anything, and this is the heart of the problems. Christianty is better stated as a theory, else show us god or Jesus on the David Letterman show this evening. You can't, you have no proof, you have only a long handed down belief.

The issue is Christians need to live and let live, and allow others to express differing opions than your own. It is a right for America to have any religion belief they want, plus a right to talk about various religious beliefs and their potential origins from history of antiquity.

Until, you and others can come up with a walking talking god willing to meet the world, you hold nothing more than a belief in Santa Clauss, or as you claim to believe in Santa Clauss a belief he exists. While the rest of the literate word knows Santa is a drama production and used to sell merchandise for stores.

You want to promote your faith as more than just a belief, you want to attack those that propose Christians have a theory, which they can't prove, but insist everyone believe as they do to the point of heated name calling.

If you get to toss out your beliefs, then others get to inspect and comment on those beliefs. Like all seeking for truth other ideas and evidence enters the big picture. And we all know Christians like to be closed minded and only take one book as all knowledge, but the literate folks look at everything and see there is real history of ancient Earth that explain a lot of what might be more a faith in Santa Clauss than a faith in god.

Like Thomas Jefferson and many others, I don't accept your claims that Jesus is god. I see it along the lines of belief in Santa and thus the analogy. Santa isn't being sold as god, but that is because truth is supreme for that subject. But not for another faith.

edit on 12-8-2012 by MagnumOpus because: The Christians need for name calling well exposed.

3NL1GHT3N3D1

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:10 PM

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reply to post by zarp3333

You sound like you'd be a complete jerk in real life.

'Pathetic fools'? Really? Why not practice what you preach and 'live and let live' instead of degrading someone at every turn?

You have some kind of superiority complex it seems, otherwise you wouldn't be calling people 'pathetic fools'.

If you can't respect someone else's opinion, you should keep your mouth shut.

Get over yourself.

edit on 12-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

WhisperingWinds

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:17 PM

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reply to post by MagnumOpus

You want to promote your faith as more than just a belief, you want to attack those that propose Christians have a theory, which they can't prove, but insist everyone believe as they do to the point of heated name calling. If you get to toss out your beliefs, then others get to inspect and comment on those beliefs. Like all seeking for truth other ideas and evidence enters the big picture.

And we all know Christians like to be closed minded and only take one book as all knowledge, but the literate folks look at everything and see there is real history of ancient Earth that explain a lot of what might be more a faith in Santa Clauss than a faith in god.

Again you bunch all Christians as close minded idiots who have only read and believed one book. You accuse Christians of heated name calling, but you continue to knock them, with implications of stupidity , and lack of honest debate.

How sad that you cannot see the your own hate and name calling, and feel the need to attack a whole group of people based on your assumptions of us.

Let me ask you something truthfully..how many other id's do you use on this board ?

edit on 12-8-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

MagnumOpus

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:17 PM

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Originally posted by ResearchEverything777
reply to post by MagnumOpus

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

www.theomatics.com...

www.biblemaths.com...

www.bibleprobe.com...

Well, lets get down to the issue that Jesus tells that his god is not the other's god.

Then he comes along after the Reserruction and tells he has not gone to the Father, but tell the others this:

My god is your god, and my father is your father.

Their Father was originally Yahwah, which is Enlil and Jesus Father was basically Enki, so he merges the two and disappears foever. Only a few words remain.

It now appears that Jesus Father is now suddenly their Father and their god.

Oops!

Hefficide

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:41 PM

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reply to post by MagnumOpus

The easiest way to answer everything you said is to simply say that faith and religion are two totally different things... at least in my eyes. I consider myself Christian - but do not affiliate myself with any denomination or sect because I have yet to find one that teaches the word as I understood it upon reading it.

It's sad really because the New Testament is totally based upon love - and yet so much destruction has been done in it's name.

Re the Santa part of your posts... It's my opinion that parents should have open enough communications with their children that when the kids learn Santa isn't real - that can lead to a productive and helpful interaction. Kids get more than we give them credit for and simply telling a kid "Santa is based upon a guy who supposedly lived in Germany a long time ago... and he'd give gifts to poor kids... So we give gifts to honor him and the idea of giving.." and then explain the religious significance of Christmas time as a separate issue - I think kids would be much less hurt and confused.

~Heff

MagnumOpus

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by MagnumOpus

The easiest way to answer everything you said is to simply say that faith and religion are two totally different things... at least in my eyes. I consider myself Christian - but do not affiliate myself with any denomination or sect because I have yet to find one that teaches the word as I understood it upon reading it.

It's sad really because the New Testament is totally based upon love - and yet so much destruction has been done in it's name.

Re the Santa part of your posts... It's my opinion that parents should have open enough communications with their children that when the kids learn Santa isn't real - that can lead to a productive and helpful interaction. Kids get more than we give them credit for and simply telling a kid "Santa is based upon a guy who supposedly lived in Germany a long time ago... and he'd give gifts to poor kids... So we give gifts to honor him and the idea of giving.." and then explain the religious significance of Christmas time as a separate issue - I think kids would be much less hurt and confused.

~Heff

Well, those are well reasoned thoughts, to which I largely agree. Though Christmas is associated with Christ and the gift giving of wise men to Jesus, it can be separated. I think the kid whose father told him that Santa was a myth was ahead of the game, and he came out better for knowing the truth.

I call myself Christian, but not the Jesus is god sort of Christian. I believe in a God, as intelligent order appears in the universe, just not the one that tells Jesus is god.

I do consider that this Bible god theme stems from the Creator gods of ancient Sumeria, which is what causes these major conflicts of interpretation of god.

Santa was just a fun allegory technique to deal with this Creator god theme, where Creator gods likely can't really be termed god.

MagnumOpus

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Again you bunch all Christians as close minded idiots who have only read and believed one book. You accuse Christians of heated name calling, but you continue to knock them, with implications of stupidity , and lack of honest debate.

How sad that you cannot see the your own hate and name calling, and feel the need to attack a whole group of people based on your assumptions of us.

Let me ask you something truthfully..how many other id's do you use on this board ?

It would appear that you are being a little devisive in your reply. Here I used the word Christians is a plural use as there are several Christians with their hate speech going on to attempt foist false issues for those that disagree with their religious extremes.

Now, if you want to be inclusive of yourself in those sort of bogus attacks on those that hold different views, then for now only you can make that call. But, you have included yourself at this point.

You assume this includes you, but the issues is I don't know what you think or what you believe. But, it would matter if you spoke to there being over the top Christians here in their false complaints of hate for a simple differing opinion and due just to my tossing out the counter information just as happens in a literate science discussion.

What is sad is that it appears that you want to manipulate what was said to what was not said. Jumping on a plural use for the term Christians here means simply there are several Christians quick to jump on anyone that differs from their over the top beliefs in the Jesus story.

Plus, it now appears you really want to jump into a tin foil hat level of paranoia that there are paid folks speaking on ATS, and want to suggest that I am one so devious.

I think we all have a much better idea of where you are really coming from.

When you take up for your perhaps more modest beliefs in Jesus by saying that other's opinions can be respected and heard, without the devicive games of hate games being played, we all might see where your real sincerity lies.

Until then, Christians is a plural term that does not necessarily apply to every Christian in the world, especially if they respect my thoughts on what a true Christian belief is.

edit on 12-8-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Some like to twist meanings in devisive ways

Svipdagr

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 04:04 AM
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One thing important is that no one should let religion or any ideals that harm others to affect their lives. People take things like God and try to give it rules. Im not saying i believe or don't believe but I feel as though there are many christians that are good people. I truly believe jesus and the christian god give people hope. Sometimes people do need to grow up and not take everything so literally or to extreme.

OnionHead

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus

Wait, so what you are telling me is that Santa Claus inst real? Then how to **** do all my presents turn up every year on Christmas morning? Who brings them, the tooth fairy?

WhisperingWinds

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus

When you take up for your perhaps more modest beliefs in Jesus by saying that other's opinions can be respected and heard, without the devicive games of hate games being played, we all might see where your real sincerity lies.

I have stated many times before in other posts on other threads, that every one is free to search for their own truth, and I have no problem with people sincerely looking for answers outside of the bible. I have said that if there is a God, and He knows that a soul is sincerely looking for proof of Jesus actually being the Son of God , He will be the one to open the eyes and the heart to that truth, if he chooses to .

What I have a problem with is those souls who have looked for truth outside of the bible, trying to set us Christians "straight" on what truth is, and trying to "educate" us. It is Gods inner voice that brought me to what I see as truth, and only Gods voice would lead me away from it.

I am not trying to "convert" anyone to Christianity, and only ask that people do not try to "convert" me to their beliefs, as well as slam me for mine.

I have yet to see many members who seem to slam Christianity, such as you did in your OP, start a thread just stating their beliefs, without one derogatory statement about Christianity, or critical reference to it.

You have a different view point than Christianity, fine, tell us what you think and believe, but leave the hating on the Christians out of it.

Plus, it now appears you really want to jump into a tin foil hat level of paranoia that there are paid folks speaking on ATS, and want to suggest that I am one so devious.

More assumptions. There are more than a handful of members that have multiple ID's for their own manipulation and purposes without having to be a paid by someone else, and some will readily admit it.
edit on 13-8-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

Unity_99

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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Santa is a code for Saturn and Satan. And is the opposite of what Christ stands for.

The actual message has been distorted and coded by Rome, to allign with astrology and many things, but what he shows the way back home, or out of this lower frequency world.

I have a really hard time with it myself because until I wake up with my own full memories, not just glimpses under the veil, and know for certain its metaphor, I will not bear false testimony against him, for there is a historical case for him existing and there is a lot of evidence its a metaphor too.

But Spirit directed me to message as a pre-teen, felt Spirit within, and then made the mistake the whole bible and couldn't understand why this message was in a horrific book like that. With the opposite of God/Goodness/Love in it. For only the message of Christ do I recognize in the bible.

The rest is hellzone material and has different leaders, though sprinkled here and there is some passages like Isaiah, which seems right on if you understand the way the dark side run this world and the mystery schools, and the way they take council with false light and have their own gnositic religion and are very distorted in their beliefs, for Isaiah 28 is a warning directly to the PTB, and telling them they are talking with the dead not angels, and that all their contracts are Null and Void, (they have no authority to sell off human souls) That people are breaking under their rules books, and that their hidden places (aka dumbs) will not survive, water will rush through them. It goes on to address the way true Good/Loving so managers of a school would act, ie. good example, they would teach like Christ did, humble, equality, running a world that was fair, decent, equal, and not a corrupt torture chamber designed to FAIL EVERY STUDENT.

He asks, how many times do you plough a field to get off a crop? That is a direct reference to the insanity of a board of directors of a school/earth, working not to pass the students, quickly through, but fail them.

That is a very very good passage, if you have discernement and see the world and the wanna be elites, and can see it clearly. My spirit within guided me instantly on that one.

But the old testament is very difficult to read.

edit on 13-8-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

wildtimes

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds

There are more than a handful of members that have multiple ID's for their own manipulation and purposes without having to be a paid by someone else, and some will readily admit it.

And you know this, how?

It is against ATS T/C, and anyone with more than one membership in a household is contacted and questioned. My husband was on here for a while, and we had to communicate with the mods and admins repeatedly. They don't want people having multiple accounts.

I have ONE.

swan001

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus

All right, I get it, Magnum. You hate christians. 6 months has passed since I last saw you and you haven't change.
Let me ask you a question to your question:
Why do you care about what other believe in? We all bleed red, we all have a heart that beats, we all are on a journey to our death. Why waste time to insult christians by saying they believe in Santa Clause? Why don't you take that same time and actually live, before life runs out, seek out harmony and freedom?

WhisperingWinds

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

There are more than a handful of members that have multiple ID's for their own manipulation and purposes without having to be a paid by someone else, and some will readily admit it.

And you know this, how?

It is against ATS T/C, and anyone with more than one membership in a household is contacted and questioned. My husband was on here for a while, and we had to communicate with the mods and admins repeatedly. They don't want people having multiple accounts.

I have ONE.

It has been stated on several posts that it is ok to have multiple accounts, as long as you don't use them to converse with yourself, and star and flag your own stuff.

That is the info I am going by.

I too only have one...but I am suspect of others having multiples. (which is easily done if you have rotating IP addresses)

Personally I don't care if people have a dozen , just don't use them to manipulate your posts.
edit on 13-8-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

wildtimes

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by swan001

All right, I get it, Magnum. You hate christians.

Nope, you don't "get it." He just said he is a Christian! He just so happens to have investigated the faith and the history of it, and is using common sense and an open mind to grow it.

If anything, Mag hates "ignorance." Sheesh, you guys, it isn't all about bashing...no one is victimizing you. There are several of us who think along the same lines. That doesn't mean we are all the same person with multiple memberships, or even know each other.

There are plenty of "outside the box" thinkers, researchers, and scholars on here who have "unorthodox" opinions, and still follow the actual teachings of Jesus.

Why so defensive?

Unity_99

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:32 AM
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Now, having made it clear that I don't walk away from Christ as a real person, Immanuel, one of the Progressed Family, having come in to help, who was his Higher Self (I and my Father and One and the Same), and I do not support God/Thrones/Lord Lord/Master which make a slave on the other end. Any pyramid. And in fact its hard to leave here if you really support that kind of thing. Infinity is comprised of infinite parts, we're all infinite parts of infinity, though there are different grades, and so my word for God is the Highest Love and Goodness in Existence, or the Good Family of Pure Love. What is truly progressed. I don't every follow pyramids, invert them to infinite family in equality.

Now lets discuss the metaphor part of Christ. The entire bible that many are taking literally is a bunch of ancient myths, some very old, from various places, not just the Holy Land, some Sumar, and annanuki.

Buried in what is violent, and oppressive, oft times, is astrology, numerology, codes for cycles, science, math, and the journey, those who find the doors, or clues in the bible begin to read it differently, as a code, and they are considered to be seekers of the mysteries. But these mysteries should not be buried for the few, and used by the bloodlines for their advantages. In fact, by doing so, they are ensuring this:

Matthew 23:13

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

The short form of things is that Christ went to Egypt and learn Buddhist and Eastern training, for Christ's message is both Egyptian and Veda and Buddha, sort of combined. One could say he is a Buddha.

The messages or clues. The words in the bible themselves can be changed to 70 different words, as they were written in a language that didn't include the vowels, and the vowels made one of 70 different words occur. And they don't know all the translators dont' know. Also even at the time of Moses there was no Hebrew language.

So what is there is what TPTB want to be there. PERIOD.

There are a few default words that came from older languages such as RUACH, which is Sumar and not Spirit upon the waters's but for some object that makes winds on waters, and they have pictographs for it. I highly recommend Mauro Biglino's literal translation of the bible.

But a good passage or clue starts with Genesis 32 30 where the city was named where Jacob met God and its YOUR PINEAL.

What Christ is really about, is the keys to going home, or as the elite think, becoming gods.

Matt 6:22 (the Original Greek for the Translatioin)

Ho The

luchnos light

tou of the

soomatos body

estin is

ho the

ofthalmos. eye

Ean If

oun therefore

ee be

ho "

ofthalmos eye

sou thine

haplous SINGLE

holon whole

to

sooma body

sou thy

footeinon full of light

estai. shall be

To modern day translators, the single eye makes no sense unless you are a yogi and practice meditation.

I once asked a Greek scholar about the verse and he said it was a figurative expression like "knee-high to a grasshopper". He said the expression means "to be without folds." In other words, "If thine eye be without folds,…"

In Mejda, p.283, Paramahansa Yogananda’s brother, Sananda Lal Ghosh, writes of a discourse Yogananda made on the Kutastha, the Spiritual Eye:
"It is surrounded by luminous rays, and protected by two powerful forces, avarana (a veil-like power) and vikshepa (a scattering power). As the devotee tries to concentrate on this manifestation, it vanishes: vikshepa deflects his gaze and scatters his attention; and avarana casts a veil of delusion over his perception."

swan001

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes

Why so defensive? Because he used to insult my christian friend just for the fun of it.
Okay, I am gonna apologize to him now. Thanks.