US defense firms could push forward with sending layoff notices , page 3


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reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 09:21 AM by bigfatfurrytexan
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Originally posted by eLPresidente
reply to
post by OZtracized



Agreed strong defense is necessary, strong offense is not


What is it makes the best defence again....it's on the tip of my tongue...oh...yeah...the best defence is an offence.

Why would you only want to fight your wars in your own territory??



Because if you are not fighting a war to defend your own territory, you are fighting an unjust war.

I would rather see our nation spiral into madness and starvation than see our continued military presence killing people in our name.


reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 09:45 AM by marg6043
reply to post by rickymouse



Interesting that you bring a subject that was discussed very deep a while back in ATS when we were facing the economic downfall, US lost its productivity to the corporatism that has taken over the nations government under the false pretenses that we were innovators and thinkers so with this idea productivity was moved out to allow for inventions and technology to take over, and it did, but that didn't came from our nation but from oversea

So while America grow fat on credicard debt, loans and unattainable mortgages, we were the mass consumers of the world.

Our nations economy grew Dependant on this consumerism but at the cost of massive debt and trillions of dollars on deficit.

Now that America lost the capability to produce and soon to even afford what is imported what we have left is a nation that is now growing fat on government welfare and assistance now we are becoming a welfare nation.

But consumerism and corporatism most grow at any cost, now the government can tax us very soon for what we don't want thanks to the healthcare mandate soon to be tax.



reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 10:38 AM by HangTheTraitors
Originally posted by marg6043
reply to
post by CALGARIAN



Well is not going to happen is already happening my husband and many like him already got layoff from one of those two companies due to obama budget cuts.

It is easy to talk about," fixing the economy"," balancing the economy", but unless you are in the same shoes of people like my husband and others that are now unemployed you have not clue how things affect no only the lives of the people involved and the economy.

This lay off is only adding more bodies to the unemployment lines and welfare system

The income bracket that my husband was during his 30 years plus of employment first as a marine and then as a private contractor is the income bracket that feeds the economy so welfare and government services are available for those that never work or are in the welfare working class

When you are a productive worker you are paying into the pot with taxes, as you do not need government services or government help.

States loses too, as they will have to add more into paying for unemployment for this working group of once productive bodies.

How does that help the economy? you don't have to be a genius to figure that one out.

In 30 years of been a productive working body my husband never received unemployment, now he does.

Our retirement account is almost depleted, how that helps the economy? and our savings account almost gone, how that helps the economy?

Been Dependant on the government for help at the expenses of other hard working productive bodies is a burden and just increases the working poor welfare state in the nation, how that help the economy?

Obama seems to be the president that will be recognized for increasing to record numbers of the welfare state in the nation

And the economy will still be screw up. cutting jobs do not add anything to the economy, creating welfare class jobs do not improve working standards and living standards it jobs keep eroding the nations reminding productive tax payers.


The truth is that the country is spending WAY TOO MUCH on military spending and you and your husband should be thankful that he had 30 years of paychecks from the military industry.

To get this country back in shape, some folks are going to face difficult times. MANY have already faced these difficult times numerous times already. In the last 30 years that your husband had stable employment in that industry, do you know how many times the average worker had been forced to find another profession and start ALL OVER from the BOTTOM AGAIN?? MANY TIMES over and over again.

So, consider your husband EXTREMELY LUCKY. The military spending is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of control and things must change. Its LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG overdue.

People who are LUCKY enough to have enjoyed 30 years of employment in one profession or with one employer without losing their jobs need to face the reality of the rest of the country. Those folks need to learn to SUCK IT UP like MANY other Americans who were MUCH more unlucky over that length of time.

Folks who have gotten comfortable with having a stable employment fo 30 years have not faced the reality of the rest of us. They too will have to learn how to SUCK IT UP in all honesty. The rest of us have sucked it up MANY times in the last 30 years!

Thats just the truth. Your husband was VERY LUCKY!!!!!!!!! Very lucky that we have had WAR-MONGERS for leaders in modern times past.

Besides, there are MUCH better professions out there where you can feel PRIDE in doing rather than working in the WAR industry anyways.

Its for the better of the country as a WHOLE. Its LONG OVERDUE!!!!!
edit on 12-8-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 11:44 AM by ReallyNiceGuy
reply to post by Valhall




I personally believe this is the type of pain this country has endure to get back on track.

Aw, yes, go ask Greece how austerity measures worked out for them. lol


reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 02:26 PM by marg6043
reply to post by HangTheTraitors



Unless you has been working for the government you have no clue of what the government is doing, sadly I can not even start to post what everything is about. Military DOD, contractors and the so call military complex is not just about wars and so, is about domestic maintenance of the military personnel.

I will leave at that.

Now I can tell you that the so call budget cuts from the military will mostly hurt the active duty and our way to protect the nation, no the oversea over spending, waste and abuse.

The cuts are not to benefit anything as this cuts will be utilized for other areas of more waste and abuse.

So at the end is not money coming out and is just recycling the debt and growing.

When you have a nation that is killing their productive working force and increasing the welfare state is not such thing as progress.

At the end we all be at the mercy of government mandates and taxes to support those that can not afford to be mandated and taxed.


reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 02:32 PM by marg6043
reply to post by hawkiye



And that is where the problem lies, the government rather screw domestic national security than stop the money flow to oversea waste and abuse, while increasing spending on lavish bases and compounds in other nations.

And that is ok, while the nations suffer at home from this practices.

That is why I can not stop telling that our nation is run by a corporate dictatorship and they careless about what happen to the nation because is all about leaching the wealth and resources for corporate needs


reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 04:59 PM by rickymouse
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



Boy, you don't sound like the yellow chicken your avator portrays you as. Can't you give the chicken a gun or at least boxing gloves
edit on 12-8-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 05:24 PM by eLPresidente
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Why would you only want to fight your wars in your own territory??



Right, and look where trying to occupy the world got us.

The premise of this thread is built around the FACT that YOUR way doesn't work. Does it now?


it is not a matter of occupying the world - there is a difference between the offence and being an aggressive instigator of wars.

I suspect that instigating wars is what you have the problem with - not being able to fight the war on the other guy's turf when and/or if HE starts it.

Do you need to be sent back to pre-school to learn these principles?


Perhaps you could join me to learn some manners, and to understand teh difference between offense and aggression?
edit on 12-8-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)


Are you really trying to justify your false argument by saying that an offense doesn't necessarily mean aggression?

You're about to CHOKE on your own words.

Looking up offense shows all TEN definitions as proving yourself wrong. So you're trying to sit there and justify offensive manner as a non-aggression manner is completely FALSE. Or you can just admit that you're wrong.




of·fense   [uh-fens or, for 7–9, aw-fens, of-ens] Show IPA
noun
1.
a violation or breaking of a social or moral rule; transgression; sin.
2.
a transgression of the law; misdemeanor.
3.
a cause of transgression or wrong.
4.
something that offends or displeases.
5.
the act of offending or displeasing.
6.
the feeling of resentful displeasure caused: to give offense.
7.
the act of attacking; attack or assault: weapons of offense.
8.
a person, army, etc., that is attacking.
9.
Sports .
a.
the players or team unit responsible for attacking or scoring in a game.
b.
the players possessing or controlling the ball, puck, etc., or the aspects or period of a game when this obtains.
c.
a pattern or style of scoring attack: single-wing offense; fast-break offense.
d.
offensive effectiveness; ability to score: a total breakdown in offense.
10.
Archaic . injury, harm, or hurt.



edit on 12-8-2012 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-8-2012 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 05:43 PM by Aloysius the Gaul
Originally posted by eLPresidente

Are you really trying to justify your false argument by saying that an offense doesn't necessarily mean aggression?

You're about to CHOKE on your own words.

Looking up offense shows all TEN definitions as proving yourself wrong. So you're trying to sit there and justify offensive manner as a non-aggression manner is completely FALSE. Or you can just admit that you're wrong.

of·fense   [uh-fens or, for 7–9, aw-fens, of-ens] Show IPA
noun
1. a violation or breaking of a social or moral rule; transgression; sin.
2. a transgression of the law; misdemeanor.
3. a cause of transgression or wrong.
4. something that offends or displeases.
5. the act of offending or displeasing.
6. the feeling of resentful displeasure caused: to give offense.
7. the act of attacking; attack or assault: weapons of offense.
8. a person, army, etc., that is attacking.
9. Sports .
a. the players or team unit responsible for attacking or scoring in a game.
b. the players possessing or controlling the ball, puck, etc., or the aspects or period of a game when this obtains.
c. a pattern or style of scoring attack: single-wing offense; fast-break offense.
d. offensive effectiveness; ability to score: a total breakdown in offense.
10. Archaic . injury, harm, or hurt.



Sorry - did you think that somewhere in there was somethign that said that agression is the same as offence??

well I tried to be polite, to give you a way out of looking like an idiot - I am sorry you did not take it.

Here's an example: When Germany attacked Poland in 1939, it was both agressive and it took the offence. However when Poland counter attacked the Germans at
the Battle of Bzura the retreating Polish armies took the offensive......but they were not the agressor - Germany was the aggressor for invading Poland.

Or when USA invaded Okinawa - clearly the ISA launched an offensive - so was the USA the Aggressor?? Or was that Japan at Pearl Harbour?????

Let's take a case that I am sure yuo think is not agressive -lets say your country is invaded, god forbid. Now you counter attack the invader - clearly you are mounting an offensive. Does that make you the aggressor?

Even fighting a defensive war you have to be able to take the offensive occasionally.
edit on 12-8-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 12-8-2012 @ 05:47 PM by TrueAmerican
reply to post by CALGARIAN



Oh, is this where I am supposed to ball my eyes out because some parasitic germs claiming to "just be doing their jobs" get layed off- after being part of the money grubbing, MIC scum that have bankrupted us and perpetuated the loss of American lives for slimeball foreign policy? I hope they rot in the sewers, and I am being nice.
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