WIKILEAKS BOMBSHELL: Surveillance Cameras Around the Country Are Being Used In a Huge Spy Network Ca

Originally posted by Druscilla

I don't see how this is shocking or even a bother.

People of religious faiths are suppose to act like their choice of higher power is watching them at all times anyway.

When you're out and about, you shouldn't be up to naughty business anyway. If you do, well, expect to get caught out for it. Simple.

This is the problem. What you say is beside the point. The American Constitution, something I regard quite highly, limits what the government is allowed to do. And our Founding Fathers explained that there was a point that could be reached at which time the government owned the people. Unless everyone wakes up NOW, that time has come and gone. It is only possible with 75% + of the population of the USA, in my opinion.

What you apparently fail to understand is that your "argument" goes WAAAY beyond just cameras in public places. Why not enact all sorts of other invasive measures, since if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. It's absurd.

reply to post by ninjas4321


Guys,

As someone who works with Trapwire quite frequently, I can tell you with out a doubt this is completely bogus. This is a program used by major resorts and venues to assist with communication between those in the system with tracking suspicious activity. The only time Trapwire is even put in use is when an ongoing incident is being entered. The user must create a file and manully input all the data. The program does not even support video, just stills for subject/vehicle photos. The purpose of the program is to keep major resorts and fusion centers across the country in the loop of ongoing suspicious occurances.

This does not mean surveilance cameras aren't being monitored, but Trapwire has nothing to do with it. Trapwire is nothing more than a tool used so things like subjects surveying properties or subjects testing security response times are documented in order to prempt a major incident occuring on property. Things that would be entered into Trapwire would be like someone taking pictures of building support structures...we don't care what grocery store joe shmoe decided to shop at today, that has absolutely nothing to do with the purpouse of the program.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by 46ACE
And... Who watches" the watchers"?
hypothetically:
Say I'm "Joe gs-9" surveillance operator#7.
I find out lowlife dirtbag "fast Jack" is sleeping with my wife;drinking my beer; and kicking my dog while I'm at work. I can find out where lowlife "fast Jack" lives.
I know what the cameras can see and what they can't; So I wait until you ( "John Q public") walks into fast jacks building;I a slip in the back in a blind spot and commit a murder. When the police investigate they have you walking into jacks building.

Bad form. People should stand up against giving authorities even more access and power. Not shill FOR it.

edit on 12-8-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-8-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-8-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

Well again - it is still all perfectly legal, there's also nothing to stop me from putting up cameras aiming at the side walks and streets around my house .. recording what everyone is doing and storing it on my drive forever.. once you're in the public space, you have no privacy.. it doesn't concern me personally and I don't look at it as invading my privacy.. it would be another thing entirely to have the government require cameras in my home so they could keep tabs on me in my own house..

"Mr. complacent": You as a civilian; don't have the cameras collecting on one hand and an entire Irs/police /military/courts/ prison system on the other. You can't put me in a gulag for life with no charges or contact with a laywer."They" can. or have you been asleep for the last decade.????????

reply to post by Druscilla


hahaha I can't tell if you were serious or not, but that was the most ridiculous thing I've read on here in awhile. Thanks for that.


I suppose since Winston Smith had that one corner of his room to conduct his naughty business in 1984 wasn't really that bad after all and Orwell was just overreacting.

I wonder if this program is related to this article -

The Feds Violated the Constitution but the Administration Won't Say How - Jul 24 2012

For months, Senator Ron Wyden has been giving American citizens an extraordinary warning: The federal government is spying on us in ways that violate our privacy and would alarm us if we knew more, he insists, adding that he can't tell us any more because the details are classified.

Now Wyden has won a small victory. Thanks to his persistent efforts, he was granted permission to share with the public a small amount of previously classified information about the NSA's domestic spying. The most consequential revelation: "National Security Agency spy activities on at least one occasion have violated the Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure, according to a ruling by the U.S.'s secret national security court."

Put more succinctly, the federal government violated the constitution. How did the NSA transgress against our Fourth Amendment rights? Incredibly, that bit of information remains classified. Citizens aren't permitted to know the details of their government's confirmed misbehavior.

Click link for remainder of article...

Thoughts?

On 8/6 i wrote a thread arguing that in order for citizens to maintain liberty in a world where government has total access to surveillance, there should be a website that allows total access to citizens.

A website where any location on Earth can be viewed in real time.

I do not believe this principal wholeheartedly, but wanted to see what kind of reaction the idea got.

Equality in a Surveillance State

reply to post by Kino321


Cause it screams of big brother if it's true. If you're not doing anything wrong, why not consent to a search of your vehicle or why not let cops in your home? Cause the Constitution is the supreme law, it's the government and you have rights protected by it, that's why! It's not just a piece of paper. Don't be sheep.

reply to post by ninjas4321


If everyone started to wear masks, I wonder if you would get arrested for that. A mask would probably be illegal all of the sudden and Halloween would be no more fun. I can't stand Hitler...er, did I say Hitler? I meant Obama and International Bankers.

reply to post by ninjas4321


I always thought that's what they were doing.

You see a camera, assume it's recording.

This is sort of the only logical end point.

Originally posted by 46ACE
"Mr. complacent": You as a civilian; don't have the cameras collecting on one hand and an entire Irs/police /military/courts/ prison system on the other. You can't put me in a gulag for life with no charges or contact with a laywer."They" can. or have you been asleep for the last decade.????????

edit on 12-8-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

That seems a little extreme.. where did you get that from what I was saying? ... I'm simply stating a fact.. when you exit your house and enter the public space .. your privacy is already gone.. anyone can take pictures or video of you when you're in the public sphere... So it truly doesn't matter to me one way or the other if the government has video of me walking down the sidewalk picking my nose..

Again .. it's different if the government wants to start installing cameras IN my home like in 1984.. but they can put them all over outside as far as I'm concerned, makes no difference to me.. I'm not under any delusion that I have privacy when I walk outside.. it's a public space, I don't own it .. I'm just passing through it..

Your other points aren't exactly relevant to the root point I don't believe.. Government absolutely has too much power and they've abused it .. but when it comes to cameras outside.. I simply don't care because unless I am breaking the law then it won't impact me who has my ugly mug on a camera.

At the police department I work for we have our own camera system that points to all the main city buildings, police department and most of the parks....however it is always broke and we never have enough money to fix it...I would imagine it is the same around the country. So I wouldn't worry to much.

*Really this happened long ago with ATM machines. They all have cameras and are mostly pointing towards main roads...not that the quality is all that great but we have used them to solve crimes. There are cameras everywhere in all kinds of things. Even think about your phones....someone can put a phone to their ear as if they are talking but can be recording! So civilians have just as much recording power. It will never go away. So get used to being recorded if you are in public

Originally posted by Kino321
if youre not doing anything wrong, whats the problem?

Why do you have to be doing something wrong for there to be a problem?

If you are doing anything confidential, there is a problem. If you are doing anything secret, there is a problem. If you are doing anything private, there is a problem.

Not everyone's life is an open book, even when they never break the law.

Can you think of anyone that you wouldn't want to know 24/7 what you are doing? If you can then there is a problem with CCTV everywhere.

Even if you are simply shy, there is a problem.

cctv is doing alot more to keep you safe than anything else

CCTV can be useful but it can also be a multipurpose threat to society. Installing it is a step down the road to a total surveillance security state. When it is installed, even by well meaning leaders, it is just one more thing that malevolent leaders don't have to do when they decide to tighten the screws on a society.

In the Soviet Union and East Germany, under communism, there were spys and informants everywhere. In London, England, there are spies and informants (CCTV cameras) everywhere. This is true of most towns and cities in the industrialized world today.

Don't forget the business scam side of all of this too. This is also about, in Annie Machon's apt phrase, "jobs for the boys". This, along with the "war on terror", the false flag events, the increased spending in the military industrial complex sectors of the economy, is about the cannibalization of the economies of countries, the looting of treasuries, by a ruthless sector of the economy who are in effect, extorting money out of the public, in scams as nakedly dishonest as extortion operations run by organized crime.

Surveillance cameras have their uses though. Check out the footage in this video, showing some of the activities of a small, very small percentage of the people who will have access to CCTV footage, and ask yourself. Do I want people like these watching me 24/7? Who ensures quality control in the hiring of police officers?

Originally posted by soaringhawk
reply to post by Kino321

 

Cause it screams of big brother if it's true. If you're not doing anything wrong, why not consent to a search of your vehicle or why not let cops in your home? Cause the Constitution is the supreme law, it's the government and you have rights protected by it, that's why! It's not just a piece of paper.

Don't be sheep.

Surveillance is passive.. stopping me and searching my car is not .. I don't see how those two things can be compared.. It's one thing to have a camera that records me driving to McDonalds.. recording me does nothing to me, but stopping me and searching me puts a stop to my day and is an inconvenience..

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
This is the problem. What you say is beside the point. The American Constitution, something I regard quite highly, limits what the government is allowed to do. And our Founding Fathers explained that there was a point that could be reached at which time the government owned the people. Unless everyone wakes up NOW, that time has come and gone. It is only possible with 75% + of the population of the USA, in my opinion.

What you apparently fail to understand is that your "argument" goes WAAAY beyond just cameras in public places. Why not enact all sorts of other invasive measures, since if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. It's absurd.

The only thing I would say to this is that the constitution doesn't offer you any sort of privacy protection the moment you are in public .. the constitution does protect you from invasion of privacy when you're in private in your home.. so when uncle sam installs a camera in your living room then bringing up the constitutional angle becomes important.

I get the slippery slope angle but there's also a lot of paranoia that comes into play that might not be necessary.

you know it say in the bible that the anticrist would rule the air ways...i think that the whole system that we live in is the antichrist..if you look at the laws been passed....and the thing they are doing like using the video cams is all part of that...looking at all the video you can see how corupt the world reall is....

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by 46ACE
"Mr. complacent": You as a civilian; don't have the cameras collecting on one hand and an entire Irs/police /military/courts/ prison system on the other. You can't put me in a gulag for life with no charges or contact with a laywer."They" can. or have you been asleep for the last decade.????????

edit on 12-8-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

That seems a little extreme.. where did you get that from what I was saying? ... I'm simply stating a fact.. when you exit your house and enter the public space .. your privacy is already gone.. anyone can take pictures or video of you when you're in the public sphere... So it truly doesn't matter to me one way or the other if the government has video of me walking down the sidewalk picking my nose..

Again .. it's different if the government wants to start installing cameras IN my home like in 1984.. but they can put them all over outside as far as I'm concerned, makes no difference to me.. I'm not under any delusion that I have privacy when I walk outside.. it's a public space, I don't own it .. I'm just passing through it..

Your other points aren't exactly relevant to the root point I don't believe.. Government absolutely has too much power and they've abused it .. but when it comes to cameras outside.. I simply don't care because unless I am breaking the law then it won't impact me who has my ugly mug on a camera.

Obviously your mind is made up; as is mine. I do have a first hand knowledge of" expectation of privacy issues".
Okay, "You said: "It's not any different than if you recorded the goings on outside "your" own window": I disagreed; you cannot do too much with the intelligence to cause me irreversible harm. The govt.can.

What about when"I" cross your comings and goings with your cellphone conversations;google search history; banking records and purchases???????

"I" could probably conjure up enough "probable cause" for a self-written search warrant and the ensuing search and "black bag job"of your residence.( legal under the"patriot act"). ??????
Sinking in yet?
This is more "just getting camels nose under the tent" stuff. You may be okay with all that collection under this administration or the next ; but what about our kids lives 4 or 5 presidents down the line? what does their future look like at this pace?

"not breaking any law?" Are you sure? "citizen"?
"they'll" be the ones who decide who is a "domestic terrorist" and who isn't....

I've clarified my part. We have nothing to "debate":
You are perfectly welcome to go along; always smile when you look up or at any "security agent" . After all; you "asked" for it! (By not complaining). .

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Don't forget the business scam side of all of this too. This is also about, in Annie Machon's apt phrase, "jobs for the boys". This, along with the "war on terror", the false flag events, the increased spending in the military industrial complex sectors of the economy, is about the cannibalization of the economies of countries, the looting of treasuries, by a ruthless sector of the economy who are in effect, extorting money out of the public, in scams as nakedly dishonest as extortion operations run by organized crime.

Just following up a little on the quote, above.

It would be a big mistake to ignore this aspect, extortion, economic cannibalism, of the ramp up of the security state in our times.

In my opinion, this is the key issue in the debate about the prevailing social trends of our times. It is set against the backround of diminishing resources and a worldwide economic downturn. The military agression, war on terror, and ramp up of the security infrastructure are a pre-emptive strike by the oligarchy against the people they will have to control and attack as immense structural changes begin in the world economy in the wake of reduced oil production and increased demand for oil.

The oligarchy are putting all their eggs into the military option. They are panicking the herd (us) with false flag terrorism and phony organizations like Al Qaeda, in order to con us into purchasing the tools they will ultimately use to control and if need be, destroy our society and ourselves.

They are like a giant, paranoic death cult that has decided that the way to solve complex problems of industial readjustment, in the wake of reduced oil production, is to ignore creative solutions for these problems in favor of putting trillions of dollars into the defense establishment and security state apparatus, so that at all costs, even the cost of hundreds of millions of lives, job one, the maintenance of oligarchical supremacy, will be accomplished.

This is like the psychopath in the tipping canoe who chooses to save himself and the bottle of wine when everything, including the kids, goes into the drink.

There's a couple threads on this.

It reminds me of the show "Person of Interest".

Here's the company itself, TrapWire Inc...read all about it....

www.trapwire.com...

Who knows that commercial where they are talking about their software program that is helping local police cut down on crime by predicting where crimes are likely to happen?
At the end, they have the nice looking young cop pull in to a convenience store and then he goes out and is standing right by his car with a coffee right as the robber walks up, then he greets him, guy turns around, EOC.
It has a whole sinister meaning now!

M

PS - Someone find that commercial.