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Disillusioned and Angry – Where do I go from here?

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posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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Yet you're still voting, Ever wonder why the guys that are closest to our ideals like Paul and to a lessor extent Johnson can't get the time of day on a national level? It's because it is all rigged and a giant distraction to keep people thinking they actually have a say in what goes on in the oligarchy.

If you vote you can't complain because by voting you sanction the fraud that keeps screwing us despite who is placed in office. There might still be some power in voting on a local level but it still is just mob rules. Most things voted on have no business being put to a vote in the land of the supposed free.
edit on 11-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
 


Well thanks for the kind words but I’ve known for a long time that my beliefs didn’t align with either party; it’s always been a ‘lessor of two evils’ vote for me. I’ve NEVER had a presidential candidate that I was in lockstep with on the issues and I still don’t. There are things about RP and Johnson that I don’t like but I think we need drastic measures…we need to take a BIG step in the right direction rather than small steps (which is what Romney represents to me – small steps) and we need it NOW before things get even worse (maybe to a point of no return).


No problem...

Most people think like that though. Voting for the lesser of two evils... but voting for the lesser evil is still evil in the end. The US needs to make some drastic changes... changes that will be very painful but very needed.

We are also at the point of no return. We are 70+ trillion dollars in debt (not 16/17 like some are saying.) we have not had a balanced budget since 1998 (14 years ago) and we're in so many wars we cannot afford. This is what voting for the lesser of two evils has brought us (plus much much MUCH more that isnt listed here)

I remember an episode of Seinfeld where George was giving an example on how to rip a band-aid off with the least amount of pain as possible. You don't do it slowly like Romney wants to (with his small steps) you do it in one quick pull... right off! Doing it slowly is a lot more painful than ripping it off incrementally.



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by paxnatus
 



Here is Paul Ryan on his economic views. This thread is an excellent overview of how Ryan can and will turn this economy around. Please read this thread which was created by a member whom previously voted for Obama but now, will definitely vote for Romney because Ryan is on his team.

Thanks kindly,
Pax


I will check it out, Pax. Thanks!


I like Ryan and Romney’s economic views for the most part. I have a problem with the size of government and the usurpation of power (patriot act, NDAA, ACTA, SOPA, etc).

Besides a better economic policy and repealing obamacare can you point to one thing that makes you believe Romney/Ryan will do anything to reduce the power of government or repeal the intrusive big government neocon policies that Bush and Obama implemented (such as NDAA)?

I know we need a better economy but I don't see why Johnson couldn't accomplish that...he ran his state like a business. At the end of the day what good is a strong economy if the elites still pick winners and loser and the government can label any of us a "terrorist" and lock us up indefinitely?



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 



I gave you a star and flag for using the word Neocon in the proper context.

The way it gets tossed around by politically uneducated people as some sort of derogatory slur towards the right in general should be funny but its not.


The term is misused a lot, I agree.



I agree with your sentiment on Romney's pick for VP although I don't like the idea of throwing my vote away to an unelectable 3rd party in protest.

The GOP is going off the rails.


I feel the same way. I don’t want to throw away my vote on an unelectable candidate but what are the alternatives?

1) Vote for more of the same (Obama),
2) Vote for a slightly different (and slightly better) variation of the same (Romney),
3) Sit it out and watch one of those two get elected regardless, or
4) Vote for the longshot that best represents your views

If everyone voted their conscience we’d get a REAL outcome but too many are told that only a vote for the two parties will work. I believe that those who say that ARE RIGHT based on the fact that most people I’ve talked to believe it; the propaganda has been successful which is why we STILL have a two-party system.

I’m feeling like it’s time to take a stand, personally, and vote my conscience. I’m tired of allowing my vote to be manipulated and I’m tired of holding my nose when I vote.

Do you know what I mean?



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 



Yet you're still voting, Ever wonder why the guys that are closest to our ideals like Paul and to a lessor extent Johnson can't get the time of day on a national level? It's because it is all rigged and a giant distraction to keep people thinking they actually have a say in what goes on in the oligarchy.

If you vote you can't complain because by voting you sanction the fraud that keeps screwing us despite who is placed in office. There might still be some power in voting on a local level but it still is just mob rules. Most things voted on have no business being put to a vote in the land of the supposed free.


VOTING is one of the most patriotic things to do. We need not allow our votes or our voting system to be corrupted. The reason guys like Paul and Johnson don’t get traction is because we allow ourselves to buy into the notion that the system is rigged or that only a candidate with a “R” or “D” before his name has a chance.

If the people don’t vote then the people will be dictated to or ruled….that’s unacceptable IMO.



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 

Most people don't vote. Only half of those eligible do. And now the process has finally been converted to all electronic. Didn't both G.B. elections make your skin crawl? It will be Romney, regardless. And that will spell more wars abroad and controls at home. You thought things were going to change for the better by VOTING?


Well... okay. One more time...



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by seabag

So where do we go from here?

I’m thinking Johnson and Paul are vying for the same anti-Obama/Romney vote and that will lose.


There is still the convention in just over two weeks and it is not yet a done deal. The outcome may turn out as predicted but we can't take our eyes off the ball in these final moments of play of the first half.

If the people have half a chance to have their vote counted then there is still hope remaining. I expect by the beginning of September there will be a whole new strategy with a bright future if we play well enough to wake up the crowd.

edit on 11-8-2012 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by intrptr
 



Most people don't vote. Only half of those eligible do. And now the process has finally been converted to all electronic. Didn't both G.B. elections make your skin crawl? It will be Romney, regardless. And that will spell more wars abroad and controls at home. You thought things were going to change for the better by VOTING?


Well... okay. One more time...


You’re right – most people don’t vote and it’s a shame. I think those people who know the issues and have a position yet still chose to sit it out are hurting the country. I don’t look at it as “feeding a failed system” because if the overwhelming majority of voting Americans got behind a candidate (let’s say Gary Johnson) and Romney or Obama still won we will have effectively exposed the fraud and it would be time to take up arms and do something about it.

If you sit back on the couch and do nothing then obviously nothing will change and the same clowns will continue to win. More people should get involved in the voting process IMO. The system only works when people participate.



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 



There is still the convention in just over two weeks and it is not yet a done deal. The outcome may turn out as predicted but we can't take our eyes off the ball in these final moments of play of the first half.

If the people have half a chance to have their vote counted then there is still hope remaining. I expect by the beginning of September there will be a whole new strategy with a bright future if we play well enough to wake up the crowd.


I applaud your optimism!


What’s your take on the likelihood of Johnson and Paul joining forces to pick up the Anti-establishment vote?



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Truly have to love a person who looks at the world with enough conviction to see where they were wrong. Don't worry as you find out it only gets worse from where you are now. The most optimistic message I can bring you in this dismal world.




posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 


What’s your take on the likelihood of Johnson and Paul joining forces to pick up the Anti-establishment vote?



Tough call, we know Ron ran on the Libertarian ticket before - I voted for him in '88. People will be disappointed if he hangs it up after the Convention, since the secondary goal has always been to re-kindle the liberty fire in the hearts and minds of Americans and stop the marching shuffle off to the slaughterhouse for constitutional guarantees and American ideals. However, no one dares state another purpose now than to secure Ron Paul the Republican nomination.

I'm sure there must be a back-up plan on some drawing table somewhere but now is not the time to bring it to light.

edit on 11-8-2012 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 



Tough call, we know Ron ran on the Libertarian ticket before - I voted for him in '88. People will be disappointed if he hangs it up after the Convention, since the secondary goal has always been to re-kindle the liberty fire in the hearts and minds of Americans and stop the marching shuffle off to the slaughterhouse for constitutional guarantees and American ideals. However, no one dares state another purpose now than to secure Ron Paul the Republican nomination.

I'm sure there must be a back-up plan on some drawing table somewhere but now is not the time to bring it to light.


I can see why RP will hold on until the convention and he can finally admit that the republican nomination is over. The problem I have is that so many RP supporters (on ATS and elsewhere) have pledged to vote Obama if RP drops. I totally don’t understand this position. It appears that Johnson is absolutely the closest thing to RP….



I sure hope RP will change gears and join forces with Johnson after the convention otherwise we really won’t have a viable 3rd party candidate IMO. Those two together would be more powerful than Romney/Ryan or Obama/Biden with regard to galvanizing a solid base.

edit on 11-8-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 



Truly have to love a person who looks at the world with enough conviction to see where they were wrong.


Well….I wasn’t exactly WRONG I just wasn’t as RIGHT as I thought!



Don't worry as you find out it only gets worse from where you are now. The most optimistic message I can bring you in this dismal world.


That is an optimistic message!


I haven’t lost hope in my country. The level and depth of the corruption in our federal government and American politics is just SLIGHTLY deeper today than I believed it was last night when I went to bed.



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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This site has the complete list of his voting record....look at all the good stuff..please...put more thought in, he's a good guy...we have to stand together or we are doomed for 4 more years.

We only have 3 months, we can't change the country right now...baby steps, Seabag, that's all we have right now.....don't let that traitor ruin our country for 4 more years.

I really think Romney and Ryan can start the turn in a better direction, then we take it from there.

Look how long it took the Progressives to get here, it's going to take some time to deprogram their followers...



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by hawkiye
 



Yet you're still voting, Ever wonder why the guys that are closest to our ideals like Paul and to a lessor extent Johnson can't get the time of day on a national level? It's because it is all rigged and a giant distraction to keep people thinking they actually have a say in what goes on in the oligarchy.

If you vote you can't complain because by voting you sanction the fraud that keeps screwing us despite who is placed in office. There might still be some power in voting on a local level but it still is just mob rules. Most things voted on have no business being put to a vote in the land of the supposed free.


VOTING is one of the most patriotic things to do. We need not allow our votes or our voting system to be corrupted. The reason guys like Paul and Johnson don’t get traction is because we allow ourselves to buy into the notion that the system is rigged or that only a candidate with a “R” or “D” before his name has a chance.

If the people don’t vote then the people will be dictated to or ruled….that’s unacceptable IMO.



Blindly voting in an unverifiable obvious corrupt system is not patriotic! It is plain stupid! Yeah just site the cliches about how voting is patriotic but don't bother to make sure the vote is verifiable and just assume it is and call it patriotic. I see you still believe the idea the system is rigged is not true even thought vote fraud has been proven over and over.

R and D's are all that has ever been elected to the presidency since the 19 century not because people believe in vote fraud but because the game is rigged. There is a reason no 3rd party has ever had a shot at the presidency and very few have ever been elected on a local level.

That facts are the vote is nearly 100% unverifiable in this country and people have no idea if their vote is actually counted yet people blindly trust it and spout stupid cliches about being patriotic and act like if you don't vote blindly in the corrupt system your some kind of loon or something. Well its completely backward anyone who votes in an obviously corrupt system that is unverifiable is the loon.

I'd rather not vote for evil theft coercion murder and plunder etc. and give permission to some fast talking idiot politician I have no control over to make decisions for me. I prefer to make my own decision concerning me. But then all those idiots who blindly vote are voting for guys with guns to come to my house and force me to comply with their stupid votes or jail me or even kill me if I refuse.

Yeah and if I don't vote for that idiocy I am not patriotic...Wow...
edit on 11-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Please....I beg of you guys...if you truly love this country ...do not go third party now, it's too late to get enough votes!!!!


It will be a disaster for us.....4 more years of the traitor...we can't survive it!!!!!

Please....stand together!!!!



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


better than 8 years of traitorous Romney...

evil... begets evil...

remember that.



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I'm just gonna say that your post took guts and is commendable. Be glad you saw the signs before many other people, even though you could've supported RP from the beginning...not gonna hold it against you since it is all in the past now. What we need to do is look forward to victory in Tampa Bay.

Ron Paul is still eligible for nomination, his supporters all across the country are going to Tampa Bay, Combat Veterans and active-duty military will be there marching for him on the day of the nomination, the lawsuit to free all delegates is still underway. the RNC defense lawyers have admitted in court, on record to the judge that they indeed break their own rules. The judge has agreed that the Voting Rights Act does apply to national conventions. The stars could align in Tampa Bay...you never know.

Heck, Arizona delegates are working with FBI in an investigation of election fraud, the delegate received a phone call threatening their children...and I wish I were joking about that...
edit on 11-8-2012 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by ugie1028
 


There's nothing evil about Romney.......show proof.....not the Obama ad lies.


Obama is proven evil and a liar. We had 4 year to see what he is. No thanks. I didn't vote for him before, he never fooled me...wouldn't vote for him if my life depended on it......





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