Why do you believe in God?

As to why something can not come from "nothingness"

The use of the word 'nothing' has a very special meaning in this context, unlike our every day use of the word. It means here quite literally nothing, the complete absence of everything. By definition then nothing must be an infinite void. If nothing exists it would HAVE to be infinite. This is a result of it not being allowed any boundaries, as a boundary would place a limit on nothing's size and furthermore would also indicate that there was something existing on the 'other ' side of the boundary, apart from the boundary itself existing. This would be contrary to our definition of both infinite and of nothing. This also, it should be noted, excludes anything existing in any other dimension, or dimensions, as a dimension would then be a boundary. Nothing then, when described as an infinite void, excludes all possibility of anything else existing, anywhere.

SOURCE

Though for me, the necessity of a Creator was always self-evident. Exploring different schools of philosophical thought has helped me to quantify just why exactly a transcendent Creator was and is necessary.

As to how and why I believe in the Creator as revealed in Scripture - that's a very long answer. I'd happily provide more detail if you're interested.

reply to post by AQuestion


U right U dont get it... by saying >>> I don't get it, you are not looking for help; but, are upset that whatever God there may be does not help you or anyone....
i never say i am upset i am fine and happy with no god, i believe to my self and people around me... take care ok...

Originally posted by U4ea82

Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
My ideas of what God is or is not change almost daily because I love to ponder theories of existence but the one constant is the feeling of something greater and I guess you could say pondering what or who it is seems to make me happy.

That's exactly how I feel. Always questioning things...expanding on what I believe. I wasn't raised in a home that really discussed religion or God. We never attended any sort of church or temple. Maybe that's why I tend to question things so much. My exposure to faith really didn't start until after I left my parent's home and at that point it was all what I believed, not what I'd been taught.

I am in this category too. Some days I feel like I am a funny sort of Christian who allows for the acceptance and tolerance of.other faiths, and some days I feel like maybe Jesus wasnt a god, but just a great teacher, and I spend time asking myself if I will be punished for having that thought, and how silly it would be if I did, and yet still wondering "but what if?".

Other days I feel like maybe our god was just a being ID race of beings much older and wiser than we are. And some days I wonder if aliens are angels and fallen angels and demons. Maybe god will one day arrive in a space ship to start us on our next step of evolution?

Still other days I think maybe God is the universe itself... present in all the precisely tuned forces that literally create, and change our entire universe and everything in it. Some days I think God is inside all of us. Which is a cool thought, right? I'M GOD! But wait...so is everybody else... O.O And some days I wonder if god is just the supercomputer that runs this virtual simulation called life. An AI so advanced, it has more of a right to be called "living" and "real" than we do? Are we at least real in the sense that we are real beings who for whatever reason, or our own choice or not, are immersed in this simulated Truman Show-esque experience?

Some days I muster up the best of my logic and think to myself "the oldest religions must contain the most truth", and I go and study them, but then for the most part I am entirely confused. I find myself getting no further than I was before.

If you think about it, each person does have their own religion. Even in a church full of people sitting side by side, all proclaiming to be united in their faith, each person will have different degrees of adherence, and belief. Some won't even say a swear word, while other thing certain types of "stealing" is ok as long as you go about it in an indirect manner. Some will witness evil and look the other way, and some will do all they can to stop it. So, nobody is really the exact same...

I can't say if any of the ideas I mentioned are correct. Then again, maybe all of them are in some way.. But my faith can always be described in the same way, no matter how it changes: I will always aim to do the most amount of good, and the least amount of evil as possible during my lifetime.

reply to post by U4ea82


Reason.

I don't "believe" I know and have faith in. There's a big difference, where faith is not divorced from reason, and is the knowledge of experience, leading to what I call the humor of understanding.

Originally posted by ZakOlongapo
reply to post by borntowatch

 

ok... but U did not tell me how old Your religion is. and i have one more question... how long is human kind around? did Your religion have answer for it?
we know a lot about DNA today, there is a way how to track the age of any DNA... google it. and do U have knowledge about junk DNA of human kind?

I havnt told you a lot of things, most of what you ask is irrelevant.
How old is the earth. Were their giants
Did Adam and Eve exist.
We know clearly in this broken universe that judgement exists. We expect it.
All a person need to know is that in time we will all be judged by God for the damage we do to each other and Him.
And we deserve to be judged, nobody denies righteous judgement, we expect it.
My faith is based on the beginning, however long that was. My faith is based on the Gospel of Jesus and how He took the worlds sin, how His flesh and blood paid the price I should have paid.
Jesus was no normal man. Jesus in Marks Gospel was first a king who called men to his side and ministry authoritive teacher, then He cast out demons further on Jesus healed a disciples mother who was sick
Christ had authority over humanity, the spiritual realms and the natural. Jesus had authority over the teachings of the bible
Jesus was God, Jesus is how God wants the world to see Him. So much love that He died for us. What is the golden ticket, how can we access this redemption.
Just to believe


Junk DNA no, lets not derail this thread at the OPs request

Why shouldn't I believe in God?

The bible is illogical.

Okay, so what? Why does everything have to be backed by logic? If truth can only come from logic then that makes logic just another form of religion.

The Bible makes mistakes.

Okay, so what? Why does a work have to be absolutely perfect for it to be legitimate? Science doesn't work that way, why should religion? Isn't that a double standard?

The bible makes contradictions.

Okay, another big deal. Life is full of contradictions. A Korean Scotsman playing the bagpipes is a contradiction. Contradictions are not a bad and evil thing.

It's irrational.

So what. philosophy itself is irrational. It's all speculation, claims and argumentation.

So really, when it comes right down to it, the only real reason to not believe, is ebcause some stuffy old men don't want you to so they can force you to conform to their one true way.


Just like many other Christians that are out there.

so I really don't see any true difference.

Oh, sure, the words are different and you can nitpick all you want to.

But when you have a tennis shoe with Velcro versus one with laces, well guess what! THEY'RE BOTH TENNIS SHOES!

It's just lame to say that a laced tennis shoe is completely different than the Velcro one.

Originally posted by U4ea82
I've reached a point in my life where I've begun to question things, specifically, God and the nature of faith. I believe in a creator, though I'm not really sure who he (or she) is. I have a hard time looking at the world around me and attributing it's beauty to a mere cosmic accident. However, I don't feel like I have any personal experience with God, no grand epiphany that made me KNOW that he existed. I've just always felt it in my heart.

Which leads me to my question : Why do you believe in God? Do you believe in God in the traditional sense, or do you have a differing vision of him or her?


Now please remember, I'm asking those who DO believe in God. If you don't believe, that's a perfectly valid opinion to which you are certainly entitled but, please, don't derail the thread trying to convince those who do believe that there is no God. Please be respectful of others and their faith.

I tell you; your questioning of God (especially mentioning the pronoun, "she") is a HUGE step towards the right direction!!! My ATS scree name alone tells of my opinion as to whom God may actually be!? TO even mention, "she" as a possible God......I find that to be AMAZING!!!! I say U4ea82, you must have a very open mind!

Lastly, as to my opinion as to whom God may be: I've had way too many apparitions, locutions, some "visions" (as a child) with Jesus, "illusions", surreal dreams - with central themes I can connect my dreams to the locutions I've had relating to the Virgin Mary. It's up to you though whether you hold my beliefs to be true! But otherwise with all of these "supernatural" experiences I've had - it actually took me MANY years (and too many meetings with Mary's apparitions) to come to terms with myself: I had to accept that she just maybe the living God. Again, I leave my thread as an open discussion.....and my thread is nothing more that an opinion of mine.

Note: I would be more than willing to share my "experiences" (visions, locutions, apparitions, illusions, etc.) with you - to anyone interested. Whether to believe me or not: that's the beauty of voicing your opinions!

Hope to hear from you, U4ea82!

Oops...I forgot to mention (I am editing my "post" to correct my HUGE mistake): As taking responsibility for sharing my opinions...I will not express criticisms, period. "Truths", whether evident or not, are to be taking into consideration...because, in my opinion, there are SOOO MANY variables as to how individuals collect and express information, I have NO REASON at all to criticize.

the question is flawed. it should be "why do you believe in A god (s)"?

this opens the question to all persons theistic person.

reply to post by stormson


If I am understanding the context of your statement correctly, its agreeable (to me); (not intentionally contradicting my last post) your idea is a fascinating subject!

I've been thinking: God has many names; God has many "identities", and/or there is more than one God! And by identities, I'd say it can be either in name(s) or in persons (physical; bodily)!

reply to post by U4ea82


I beleive in god because i refuse to beleive we are as dull as beasts. I fully beleive in god because i don't fully beleive in my self(other wise i'd go through walls)yet. Most importantley i beleive in god because i don't beleive in you(man). I don't know you,yet i acknowledge your existance here on earth. The same, i beleive, goes for and with god. You can't block the sun with your hand. Only your eyes. Don't worry, your all the same(humans)

reply to post by U4ea82


That which is seeing and knowing is God. All that is seen is the Glory of God.
You are the seer and what is seen is your Glory.

The observer and the observed; is there anything else?

reply to post by U4ea82


I don't believe in any biblical god, but I don't rule out a creator. Odds are there isn't one, but it's too early to tell. If there IS a creator, he's more of a scientist that's interested in the whole universe and probably doesn't even know he created us.

I've commented on this before, so I'll make it brief. Mankind's knowledge is growing by leaps and bounds. I believe that one day we will figure out how to create life from scratch. Also, if given enough time we will learn how to create universes. We will become gods.

If this is our destiny, then the idea of a god creating our universe becomes much more plausible.

reply to post by jiggerj


If you are relying on time to reveal God you are lost to God.
There is only presence.
If you cannot know the presence (all there is) then you are lost in time.
The feeling that one gets from being lost in time is the human condition of suffering. You are suffering from mind made delusion. Mind made delusion is all that stops you from being one with the father.

The belief in 'other' is what causes the suffering. That is why God is said to have said 'have no 'other' Gods'.
Because this moment of presence is it and there is no 'other'.

Humans believe time is real and that in time will find God, or in time all will be revealed but presence is the revealing aspect. The word past and the word future all appear presently and all stories are made of words. Words cannot appear any 'time' but presently in presence as presence.
Out of this presence (which is not a thing) everything appears to be seen.

All seeing, all knowing and everpresent - presence..

God is the one thing that you do not have to believe in.
It is all the 'else' that is belief. Everything else is a belief, a story.
This moment - presence is it.
From this moment man draws imaginary lines - he defines, he separates. This moment, now - how big is it? Can this moment be cut?

Can you cut yourself away from this moment? Or are you always where now is? Now is all you will ever 'know'. Time (past/future) is 'another' God that does not exist but is worshipped by an ignorant mind.
Only 'this/presence' exists and that is why if you worship anything 'other' than this you will suffer. Only the truth shall set you free.

reply to post by jiggerj


The mind is the creator of all worlds.
When it is realized that 'the world' is no more than an idea in the mind - 'the world' will be destroyed.

Nothing will be left but presence. Out of presence 'worlds' are imagined.

Originally posted by followtheevidence
As to why something can not come from "nothingness"

The use of the word 'nothing' has a very special meaning in this context, unlike our every day use of the word. It means here quite literally nothing, the complete absence of everything. By definition then nothing must be an infinite void. If nothing exists it would HAVE to be infinite. This is a result of it not being allowed any boundaries, as a boundary would place a limit on nothing's size and furthermore would also indicate that there was something existing on the 'other ' side of the boundary, apart from the boundary itself existing. This would be contrary to our definition of both infinite and of nothing. This also, it should be noted, excludes anything existing in any other dimension, or dimensions, as a dimension would then be a boundary. Nothing then, when described as an infinite void, excludes all possibility of anything else existing, anywhere.

SOURCE

Though for me, the necessity of a Creator was always self-evident. Exploring different schools of philosophical thought has helped me to quantify just why exactly a transcendent Creator was and is necessary.

As to how and why I believe in the Creator as revealed in Scripture - that's a very long answer. I'd happily provide more detail if you're interested.

There cannot be something without nothing.
Before there was any thing, there had to be a place for it to be put. If it was pure thingness it would be full up already so there would be no room (space, no thingness) for it (thingness).
If there was just mass (thingness) how could there be movement?

The no thingness cannot be known because it is the no thingness that knows.
It is the knowthing that knows 'things'.

Without the knowing space of no thingness no things can appear to appear.
The picture on a tv cannot be seen if there is no screen. The screen is the empty no thing and the picture is the some thing. Take the screen away and there can be no picture.

The no thingness is always present. Emptiness is form.

I was once a Christian but after some time I did some research. I learned over time that the "God" who created mankind made a bunch of lies. That is why I don't worship him and why I am now an Atheist.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by U4ea82

 

[snip]

Genesis 1:27

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Do you recognize yourself yet?

The image is where you are. God created us INSIDE His image and also we are His image. He is the one in the mirror looking from both sides. You are the image only looking from within the mirror. You cannot see Him, yet he can see Himself and you as well.

I like your analogy there, however I may have mis-interpreted what you are typing, for what I understand to be my belief, is that 'god' is the only thing that exists, and will ever exist...period. Nothing outside of it, but can only be 'within' itself. Your 'God Created us INSIDE His image and also we are His image' reference to me backs up my pre-conceived notion that what I belief is accurate. However I disagree with the 'you cannot see him' aspect, because I belief I can, simply by knowing all about me - i know that part of it. Perhaps not in totality, that perhaps requires a 'christ consciousness' (perhaps what Jesus acquired), but that doesn't mean no one else can or cannot achieve this. I AM part of the greater part of what is to be called 'god', a facet of a diamond - but so are you.

Oh, does that mean i'm talking to myself, err... you.. me.. yikes what a brain fart

1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Wow, I think I just wrote that above yeah? To me that statement says GOD saying that I am a part of it, but through the illusion of time, i've not achieved the 'end path' through 'marty' yet to the know thyself fully as the ultimate creator... cool, something to look forward to.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Do you see yourself yet? God knows you, but you do not know him. You are fully known, yet he is partially know, as in a dimly lit mirror. [snip]

Yes. I see myself. God does know me, not because he's external, but because I am his INTERNAL. I do not know him fully - as I am only a part of him. I am fully known, because he's already lived my life, I suppose this is how he knows everything. I am a small part of his greater consciousness, focusing on 'marty' right now. You are GOD focusing on 'you' right now. Would love to know all of you - oh wait.....

God is infinite, so there can not be a finite number of infinite things. Just as God is infinite, we are finite, therefore, we will end. There cannot be an infinite amount of finite things. Time is the same. So is our reality. We are multiplicity out of unity. God is unity that gives us multiplicity of Himself in an image.

Possibly, but in 'martys' belief system, infinite GOD requires Infinite 'finite' things so that 'everything' (and that does mean everything) can be known and experienced. Time is not the same, time is only relevant to this point in existence, the past was a part of time that had previously been experienced and the future is time that has not occured yet, and time may only be part of this physical reality, perhaps there's a reality where time doesn't exist. That does denote 'everything' right?

[snip] How did he do it? He used WORD. Word is information.

Sorta lost me there..... WORD???

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Yes, I however don't think it refers to jesus though - or it could, i don't know as Marty - I perhaps know as Jesus though.. (Get your head around that one hehe)

I think this reference to creation of everything 'within' itself, nothing more - no externalisation of 'jesus' or anything ...

Jesus is the Son of God, the Living Word. God expressed Himself into the image as one of us to save us from the image.

just had a new idea as I was writing this thread, that the accumulated knowledge of 'humanity' as human beings on earth is 'christ consciousness' incarnated as 'jesus' 2000 years ago... Not denying it, but still need more meditating on that. Perhaps its all translation of the bible or OTHER sources that may be causing the problem.

I think the problem may be that people think that 'jesus' was an external person that needs to be accepted, but I have a greater belief that Jesus may be a level of re-incarnation I've not reached yet in the illusion of time

reply to post by U4ea82


Explanation: S&F!

Why do you believe in God?

It is an available option! I found that option the most acceptable answer to the questions I had been pondering!

Do you believe in God in the traditional sense, or do you have a differing vision of him or her?

No I don't [slightly unsure as to the OP's use of the unqualified term 'traditional' ] and yes my vision of God is different on and across many different levels and from many different points of view!

Personal Disclosure: I have answered the why's ... please feel free to inquire as to the how,what,where,when and or who, which I haven't yet detailed.

I am glad that I am not the only one who sits around pondering on this issue. I ride public transportation which leaves me with alot of time on my hands to observe and wonder. I think that using the force as an example is a good possible explanation of the god like intelligence that exists among us. My mother never attended church, although she sent me on occasion possibly for social interaction. I love my religious freedom, and would not change it for anything. As someone mentioned about conciousness existing after the body, I believe that some books by Dr. Bruce Goldburg can explain the possibilities of this. I know that some of his theories are out of wack, but the base theory of how it works is almost right on. It was so wierd, but after I denounced Christianity as my religion when I was 25, I was walking around in a 3 story Border's bookstore. What I found is amazing. I just reached in a random shelf and pulled out a book on spirit guides by Bruce Goldburg. I am legally blind and usually have to just use intuition to pull out something interesting, and this book matched exactly what I believed. I almost fell out of my chair after every page I read. It is amazing, and I would recommend it to anyone seeking logical explanations on why the intelligence expanded itself into prehistoric man and throughout the universe. I have it buried away and can't remember the exact title, but I can dig it up if anyone wants to know. I am telling you that if you feel like me and the OP, you will feel right at home with the theories present in this text. SF OP for assuring me that I am not alone.