If I were a Christian,

Originally posted by gentledissident
I would be ecstatic. I would know that all I have to do is believe Jesus is my savior and I’ll spend an eternity in Heaven. I know there are a bunch of other rules about stoning, genocide, and stuff I should follow, but it seems all I have to do is worship Jesus and believe that through this worship, I can get one of the spots in Heaven that he secured for us. The best I can tell is that Jesus wants me to be understanding, protective, and helpful. I’m not sure why this is necessary if all I have to do is believe that Jesus died for my sins so God would let me into Heaven. However, there seems to be something about doing no harm that Jesus is saying. He seems to be enforcing caring but nullifying stoning and genocide. It seems vague to me. So, to be sure I’m doing the right thing, I would take up a skill like medicine or carpentry and give away my services so that all may benefit. I would of course accept food and shelter. To not survive would be suicide. I know that I can’t kill myself and get into Heaven. I have to wait for God to kill me. I would spend every moment beaming with joy knowing of my eternal Heavenly reward. I would happily and enthusiastically tell all about Jesus, because salvation would be helping them. My life would consist of helping, preaching, and asking for forgiveness just in case I’ve offended God. I would suffer no pain, as pain would mean nothing to me. This life would be nothing to me but a door to my eternal bliss. I would have only a roof over my head and a Bible. I would know that any pleasure this life has to offer is a lie compared to the joyous truth of Heaven.

Is this how Christians act?

I don't. And what makes you think Christians do not believe in pleasure in this life? Perhaps it is the type of pleasure we disagree on. Hedonism is considered pleasure, but hedonism also leads to misery. Pain has no meaning? Show me where Christians have never suffered pain in their lives. Christianity is about faith in a better tomorrow, looking with hope beyond today from a world surrounded by pain.

Jesus is not merely offering a happy place, He is offering a better place and escape from those things that cause pain, physical, spiritual or mental. He is also offering us a way to understand how to stop doing things that cause us or others harm. His first message was "repent and believe the Gospel for the kingdom of God is at hand". Jesus wept. That shows His care for His friends and the pain they were in following the death of their brother that they loved.

Heaven is not just a happy place, it is a better place.

Ok, I seem to be in the wrong thinking that it takes a selfless life of helping others and worshiping God and or Jesus to be a Christian. What would I be missing that would block my passage to Heaven?

Originally posted by WarminIndy
what makes you think Christians do not believe in pleasure in this life?

I'm just saying that I wouldn't be concerned about pleasure. Like I said, this life would become but an insignificant blip to me. My real life that would never end would far overshadow this tiny existence. My pleasure would come from knowing that I'll be going to heaven when God calls me home. Also, if If I were to seek pleasure, I would have no real idea of what is not sin. There is much debate about this. Like I said, I would constantly ask for forgiveness just in case I am doing something wrong in the eyes of God or Jesus.

Originally posted by WarminIndy Pain has no meaning? Show me where Christians have never suffered pain in their lives.

Everyone experiences pain. I'm saying that I would easily suffer it knowing that the best thing that can happen if for me is to die at the hands of another as long as I have not angered the other. Pain, to me, seems like an inconvenience. If I knew were going to Heaven, nothing would inconvenience me as this life would mean nothing to me.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
Christianity is about faith in a better tomorrow, looking with hope beyond today from a world surrounded by pain.

As I understand it, there is no hope. There is only the divine knowledge that believing Jesus died for our sins, we will go to Heaven. The Bible states that humanity, as we know it, will ultimately end on Earth. The only thing we can do is alleviate pain and suffering that we are aware of. This may be related to preventing suicide and, by our inaction, murder. Jesus says this is a Christian thing to do, so it should be done. It seems up for debate if this is required to get to Heaven, but if Jesus said it, I get the feeling Christians need to do it or else go to Hell.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
Jesus is not merely offering a happy place, He is offering a better place and escape from those things that cause pain, physical, spiritual or mental. He is also offering us a way to understand how to stop doing things that cause us or others harm. His first message was "repent and believe the Gospel for the kingdom of God is at hand".

I think I've stated that this would be my mission on Earth

Originally posted by WarminIndy
Jesus wept. That shows His care for His friends and the pain they were in following the death of their brother that they loved.

Whether Christians feel or not for those they help, the helping seems to be the part that is required for passage into Heaven. However, that is up for debate as well. John seems to say that if we believe everything about Jesus and accept it, we will go to Heaven and not Hell.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
Heaven is not just a happy place, it is a better place.

I know, that's why I'd be so excited about spending an eternity there. This life would become merely a bus station where I wait for a ride to Heaven.

Dying into nonexistence is a thought which makes me chuckle nervously and then get to enjoying and creating everything I can. It makes me understanding of others' fears and rituals. It makes me empathetic. However, If I could be convinced that there is a Heaven, my life would change. I wouldn't even need the threat of Hell. All I would need is patience while I wait for God to kill me.

It has just occurred to me that this is the life my Granny led. She worked hospice until retirement. She then made quilts and gave them away. She had very little and lived in a shack. She spent her free time reading the Bible from cover to cover over and over and going to church.

My dad gave up on the church and enjoyed conspiracy study. He said it was just a hobby, as God's will will be done without his help. He said he was just passing time until he could go see Jesus. He said that seeing Jesus was what he wanted to do more than anything else. He fell over backwards one day. However, he may have committed suicide through his minimal unhealthy diet and cartons of generic menthol lights.

My mother was a hedonist hiding behind Christianity. If you couldn't disguise your hedonism, you were labeled a sinner by her. If you wouldn't submit to her will, you were useless to her. That's why she left my dad.

I assume that I haven't heard from any Christians who behave as I describe because ATS doesn't fit in with their lifestyle.

Originally posted by charles1952
May I suggest that you become one, learn and come back in oh, six months or a year, and report back?

You could go Catholic or Protestant. My suggestion would be Catholic as it is older and doesn't have all the denominations that Protestantism has, but it's up to you.

Why would I need to go to a church? They seem to disagree with one another. Some try to control their members. Most practice rituals. How would any of this assure my passage to Heaven? The Bible states that people of faith should be around each other. I would already be hanging around people who are doing good through my profession. I would assume that most of those people would be Christian in the USA. I would already be filled with joy knowing that I'm going to Heaven. I wouldn't need other believers preaching to me to validate my faith. If I were going to be a Christian, I would simply believe in God, Jesus, Heaven, and The Bible without a doubt. I would do good and live selflessly and minimally. I would pray to Jesus and God to confess my love for Jesus and God and to ask for forgiveness for any sin I may have committed. I would pray for Jesus and God to help me alleviate suffering and to awaken non-believers. Why would a Christian want more? What else is needed to get to Heaven?

Originally posted by gentledissidentI would happily and enthusiastically tell all about Jesus, because salvation would be helping them. My life would consist of helping, preaching, and asking for forgiveness just in case I’ve offended God. I would suffer no pain, as pain would mean nothing to me. This life would be nothing to me but a door to my eternal bliss. I would have only a roof over my head and a Bible. I would know that any pleasure this life has to offer is a lie compared to the joyous truth of Heaven.

Is this how Christians act?

NO. Salvation, eternal bliss, rewards in the afterlife etc is NOT the motivation of a true follower of Jesus. These are only promises.

Their motivation is simply they love God, they love what God loves. They will do anything to seek God and HIS Truth, they will even forfeit their life to fulfill the Truth.

YES everything in the world that is man-made, industrialization, cities, agriculture, houses, cars, careers, education, hobbies, recreation, relationships, etc. I wouldn't say they are lies, more like deception that they are good. They are not good, they are evil, all these things are built on the misery and oppression of billions of people and trillions of animals and plants. The mass media, your parents, your government leaders, you school, they tell you life is good, these things are good. But the deception has been so great, even they don't know they are 'preaching' deception themselves.

To be a Christian is to abandon everything you have in this world, hopes, dreams, careers, possession, not because you are masochist or you want to go to heaven. You do it because, you know those things are evil. You no longer want to partake of the system that helps to oppress and kill many.... You would want to help those that this system oppressed. You would do this because your eyes has been opened to the truth and you no longer want to promote injustice, unrighteousness, lawlessness.

In a nutshell (this is just an analogy, but hey, I'm going vegetarian in real life too!), you would no longer eat meat because the animals has been treated harshly, abused, and you no longer want to promote/help the meat industry which is nothing more than an institution of suffering, abuse, horrors for profit

So when you come to the Great White Throne of the heavenly Judge after you die you might hear either two of these:

To a True Christian:

- Well done my faithful servant, your courage to uphold justice, righteousness, and mercy, to tend to the needs of the least, those who had nothing to eat, your courage to stand for my animals who I loved and can't speak for themselves, that you would do this against all odds, in all your strength, even in your old age, that you would forfeit your life, you would abandon everything in this world for me. That you loved Me and the things that I love more than anything, more than any reward, even the true riches of heaven! I love you my Son! Welcome home!

To a Lukewarm Christian:

- Out of my sight you evil doer!! For you choose to partake in the world, and does not hate it for my sake. You would say, you did not know. But the word is there in my teachings, in your book called the Bible. You chose to obey your Pastors and to do what every 'Christian' and unbelievers out there because you are too coward to carry your cross, abandon everything in this world and follow my Son. Didn't your newspapers, TV, tell you that there is much suffering in this world. And there you are, pleasuring in food, in you nice house, nice car, entertainment system, while you turn a deaf ear to your starving brethren in other parts of the world.

By these you would have realized that there is much injustice in this world, but instead of seeking the Truth via your internet, library, from others, you waste your time, trying to advance in your career, fish in the lake, tend to your family in complete neglect for my Word and to me. I wouldn't count your Sunday church going because you only take pleasure in it, to unwind and refresh after a week's work of job and family.

You can't partake in my Heavenly Kingdom because you are a coward, you would rather preserve your life by partaking in your evil world system, in it's injustices than to love Me and to love the things I love, justice, righteousness, and mercy. To the fire you go!



These are the two sides. What if there is no reward at all, no heaven and hell. But you still get to meet the Judge before you disappear into nothingness-non existence. Which of the two you would rather hear??

How you would like to be remembered?? What if the Judge is a writer, He writes your life story to be read by future generations?? The ignorant coward who loves his/her life to care for the desperately needy or the one who gave everything up even their life for the sake of justice, righteousness, and mercy??

reply to post by ahnggk


I’m a vegetarian. Christians are quick to tell me that God wants me to eat the (other) animals.

I’m imagining a Tom and Jerry episode when I talk about this. At judgement, I think God would say to me, “You gave all you had to help others. You only claimed The Word of God for yourself. You were selfless and always careful to listen to me and love me. You tried to live as true to my will as you could, yet you realized you were a sinner anyway and repented. You have shown me and humanity great respect. You may pass.” How is this, what I have been describing, different than what you describe?

I cannot stop humanity’s lust for power no matter how many hearts I turn. I can only help the ones it wounds and, if I were a Christian, lift them with the promises of Heaven and the love of God.

BTW, I don’t do anything so that I can be remembered for it.

Originally posted by gentledissident
I would be ecstatic. I would know that all I have to do is believe Jesus is my savior and I’ll spend an eternity in Heaven. I know there are a bunch of other rules about stoning, genocide, and stuff I should follow, but it seems all I have to do is worship Jesus and believe that through this worship, I can get one of the spots in Heaven that he secured for us. The best I can tell is that Jesus wants me to be understanding, protective, and helpful. I’m not sure why this is necessary if all I have to do is believe that Jesus died for my sins so God would let me into Heaven. However, there seems to be something about doing no harm that Jesus is saying. He seems to be enforcing caring but nullifying stoning and genocide. It seems vague to me. So, to be sure I’m doing the right thing, I would take up a skill like medicine or carpentry and give away my services so that all may benefit. I would of course accept food and shelter. To not survive would be suicide. I know that I can’t kill myself and get into Heaven. I have to wait for God to kill me. I would spend every moment beaming with joy knowing of my eternal Heavenly reward. I would happily and enthusiastically tell all about Jesus, because salvation would be helping them. My life would consist of helping, preaching, and asking for forgiveness just in case I’ve offended God. I would suffer no pain, as pain would mean nothing to me. This life would be nothing to me but a door to my eternal bliss. I would have only a roof over my head and a Bible. I would know that any pleasure this life has to offer is a lie compared to the joyous truth of Heaven.

Is this how Christians act?

YOUR POST SHOWS HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE ABOUT CHRISTIANITY

reply to post by gentledissident


Jesus is God

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by gentledissident

 

Not Exactly.....
Works are not what it takes. Head knowledge is not what it takes.... doing good is okay but no guarantee of a seat at the table...

How about it's all about what is in your heart.. His forgiveness is based on true repentance and faith and belief. Not many people could live like you imagined. good try but it doesn't take what you have detailed.

Nope.

John.5
[24] Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Christians like you are always looking for ways to keep people out of heaven. But, according to Jesus, it's easy, no catch.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

reply to post by guitarplayer

Why the drive by? Why not enlighten me?

Why aren't those who are saying that my description is not of a Christian explaining what I got wrong and why? Why are they not laying out detailed steps to get to Heaven and what a Christian actually feels?

I must confess, when I was hypnotized into Christianity, this is how I felt after the special guest preacher "saved" me. I had made "friends" with a Methodist pastor who one day called in another preacher from a church of a different sect, World Harvest. The hypnotist showed up, put me under, brought me back, and left. I did learn that forgiveness is a powerful too that preachers have. Do yourself a favor, forgive yourself.

Why not explain to us what your life would be like if you were Jewish?

Just curious as to why it always the Christian that get taken to task for their actions,and often mocked and ridiculed in the process.

Would also be very curious what admin would do if there were as many threads bashing Jews as there are threads bashing or ridiculing Christians , even if it is done in a subtle manner, with hand in glove so to speak.

So please OP, tell us how you would live if you were a good Jew.

I have nothing against Judaism, so get that straight, because it is the founding roots of my beliefs.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds

Well, I don't know much about what Jews are supposed to do. I think I'm supposed to spend my time with a certain portion of the OT trying to determine its real meaning. That's what I've gathered from the little exposure I've had.

Originally posted by gentledissident
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

Well, I don't know much about what Jews are supposed to do. I think I'm supposed to spend my time with a certain portion of the OT trying to determine its real meaning. That's what I've gathered from the little exposure I've had.

really ..don't know?

Much of it is in the same book, as the Christians read...yet I fail to see anyone undermining the Jewish roots of the Christian faith...and if it is, it is always put on the backs of the Christians.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds
As Christians seemed to have dropped the genocide, stoning, and most of the strange laws in the OT, I think the Jews are supposed to interpret them. As a Christian, I would feel relieved not having to navigate that maze. I'd just believe in Jesus and God, do no harm, help others, ask for forgiveness, and go to Heaven when God kills me. I'd be so happy with the promise of Heaven, the rest would come naturally.

As an atheist, I spend time thinking of ways for us to live together harmoniously and effortlessly as a planet of animals. I spend time entertaining myself and collecting things for my enjoyment. As a Christian, I feel all my energy would be devoted to keeping people alive and fed within the existing economic models while we wait for our real lives in Heaven.

reply to post by gentledissident


oh..I see..you don't believe in God, but you are certainly willing to step up on a soap box and tell us all the great and wonderful things you would do if you did.

If I were an atheist, I would not concern myself about what I would do if I believed in God, and I certainly would NOT try to preach to those that do, using such subtle underhanded methods such as this thread.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by gentledissident

 

oh..I see..you don't believe in God, but you are certainly willing to step up on a soap box and tell us all the great and wonderful things you would do if you did.

If I were an atheist, I would not concern myself about what I would do if I believed in God, and I certainly would NOT try to preach to those that do, using such subtle underhanded methods such as this thread.

I don't know why you or anyone else is getting offended by me telling you what I think it would be like. People speculate on what Heaven would be like and they are not berated as I have been. Is there anyone here who can actually discuss this?

reply to post by gentledissident


you seem obviously frustrated. do you mind telling the biggest thing that frustrates you about jesus? not religion mind you, just jesus.

Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
reply to post by gentledissident

 

you seem obviously frustrated. do you mind telling the biggest thing that frustrates you about jesus? not religion mind you, just jesus.

Why do I seem frustrated to you about the Jesus character?

Any frustration coming across is due to those who wish to tell me I'm wrong and then not discuss why.