The True Cause of the Impending Collapse of the US Economy

Maybe I missed it. Three of the main reasons for our problem:
LIBOR
LIBOR
LIBOR

Our pensions, loan rates, etc. are based on LIBOR. The numbers were fixed by the bankers so they could make more money.

It is sad that so few people know about this farce.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

Now please justify the reasoning to take away SS and medical programs before we stop spending money on murder?

This was what sparked my passion for this in the first place!!!

I was researching world hunger and the causes...which I thought at the time was simply a reluctance to share and share alike...which is a factor...but I stumbled upon the bigger picture...

Basically, what I discovered is that the amount spent on war and military, by the US alone, is enough to not only alleviate world hunger permanently, both with food now and other means for the future self-sufficiency, but also provide good clean water for everyone lacking as well as modern toilets/sanitation for all who would desire such (not all cultures would welcome that but some would)...

And there would still be so much left over that we'd not know what to do with it!



We spend so much on DEATH and KILLING but almost nothing is invested in LIFE.

Originally posted by wwiilliiaamm
Maybe I missed it. Three of the main reasons for our problem:
LIBOR
LIBOR
LIBOR

Our pensions, loan rates, etc. are based on LIBOR. The numbers were fixed by the bankers so they could make more money.

It is sad that so few people know about this farce.

Actually, I've looked into that...it is also, as are all the other 'suspects' merely a symptom of the true ill...many of which are measures taken to try to finance this high price we are all paying to have a gargantuan military presence in comparison to the rest of the world, all combined!

U.S. Military Spending vs. The World

U.S. military spending – Dept. of Defense plus nuclear weapons (in $billions) – is equal to the military spending of the next 15 countries combined.

These numbers show military expenditures for each country. Some say that U.S. military spending will naturally be higher because it has the highest Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of any country. The United States accounts for 47 percent of the world’s total military spending, however the U.S.’s share of the world's GDP is about 21 percent. Also note that of the top 15 countries shown, at least 12 are considered allies of the U.S. The U.S. outspends Iran and North Korea by a ratio of 72 to one.

Source: Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, old.armscontrolcenter.org...; our graph uses a more comparable figure of $515 from actual 2006 U.S. military spending

( both from www.warresisters.org... )

Interest rates and loans are mechanisms used to bolster the failing economy...which is failing because of...you guessed it...WAR.

LIBOR is not the root...it is just one of many branches. We can see the branches without making any effort besides looking in the right direction...but we must dig in order to see the root.

Originally posted by jtma508
Wars, except in the case where we are defending our homeland, we can mostly do without. Research wars going back to at least Vietnam and you will quickly find that the pretexts for just about every one was either fabricated in the worst or based on bad judgement and equally bad information in the best case. Beyond the actual out-of-pocket spendding related to the wars you also have to account for the debt service created to finance these cluster-fracks. On the other hand, some of these 'entitlements' that you speak of are humanitarian necessities --- unless of course you are prepared to just allow people to die on the streets.

Yes, and right about the time of the Vietnam war was when the economy started heading south toward where we are now....but the last decade was the most disastrous.

No true and legitimate cause for wars that cost far more than we can afford.

www.washingtonpost.com...

All those people like mad off, or should i say, MADE OFF with YO money. Prime rib example of a greeder PIG,people in greed. Some are so full of it, they have the ardasity to put and advertise on licience plates. Example: ripoff, robu77,clnout,madlos,smkupu,86uass and so on. Pathetic. Put them behind bars with the regular populous. America might be able to heal itself if we got rid of the uprooting pigs in the backyard.

reply to post by queenannie38

Queenannie, that is probably one of the finest and most well written and well sourced OPs I've ever had the honor of reading on ATS - and we all know there's been some great ones (and I lurked a loooooooooooong time before I joined).

It's rather hard to take it all in. It's staggering. And I've a feeling you've only found the tip of the iceberg.

One thing that I think is important but that I don't see mentioned is that the U.S. did have something of a catalyst for entering WWI that they could use to get the public behind the idea and that was the Brit's interception of the 'Zimmerman Note,' wherein Germany was asking Mexico to declare war on the U.S. if the U.S. went to war against Germany, with Germany promising Mexico they'd make sure Mexico got back Arizona, Texas and New Mexico. So, Wilson, who implemented the Fed in 1913, managed to turn that intercepted note into a "real" threat against the U.S. and gain public support for getting the U.S. out of neutrality and fully into international war ~ and it hasn't stopped since.

I don't see how anyone can effectively argue your logic with the sources you've provided. That said, I find it all too coincidental that we became a war mongering Nation so shortly after the inception of the Fed - as in the very first potential opportunity after the inception of the Fed. I say 'potential' because, after all, it was ONLY a note and I've never found any historical evidence that supports Mexico would have done as Germany asked. So, I view it as the first false flag used for public support against a threat far more imagined and blown out of proportion for public support rather than a real, significant "threat."

The information you've provided is SO timely and so critical as we come into the November elections. WHO believes we need to shut down U.S. bases around the world? WHO believes we should keep our military at home to defend against invasion here and stop policing the world? Only one potential candidate that I know of.

If more people could get this information and fully understand it, I think they would consider voting for someone other than the two virtually interchangeable ("presumptive") candidates we're now being offered.

You are so right: if We, the People don't stop it, it will never stop. If we can take all this in and then add it to the 100mil now on welfare, the theft from the Social Security and the resultant debt to same, the debt to China and other Countries, the unfunded liabilities, etc. to infinity ... it's easy to see we will NEVER get out of this mess unless WE do something.

Absolutely fantastic, well-timed, informative and much needed thread. Thank you!

Originally posted by camaro68ss
Yeah the war budget has some affect on the overall yearly deficit but it’s not as big as your portray here. Estimates I hear for the two wars are in is 1 trillion dollars spent total in the last 10 years.

What the major problems are entitlements! Let me ask you a question. How is Greece going bankrupt and they having little to no army? How is Spain going bankrupt with little to no army? How is Italy going bankrupt with little to no army? It’s because of the entitlement spending.

Social security is a Ponzi scheme, Medicare is a ponzi scheme and Obama care will be the same. All these entitlements are paid by the young and use by the old. When Social security started it was 38 people paid into it for every 1 person receiving benefits. Now it’s 3 to 1! Its said there is now more money being withdrawn then deposited into social security. By the year 2030 Social Security will have NO MONEY LEFT!!!

Unfinded liabilities are in the total of 118 TRILLION dollars!!! If you include the governments GAAP accounting with the unfunded liabilities, in 2011 the USA spent 11TRILLION dollars!!!!

www.usdebtclock.org...

edit on 10-8-2012 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

Personally, I agree with most of what you said. I also believe that, if one reads all the links, the OP has done a wonderful job of showing us yet another example of how the numbers are twisted and semantics employed to make us THINK entitlement programs are the primary source of of our spending when, in fact, while they are unnecessarily large figures, they are used more to keep us at one anothers' throats so that we don't pay attention to the pretty much irrefutable facts the OP has provided.

Did you read all of her links? I truly think it's only the tip. I believe if everyone helped her dig deeper, we'd find even more.

Originally posted by jtma508

Sounds like typical right-wing talking points. I suggest you go here, download the data and play around with it for a bit. The whole 'entitlements' issue is brought to you by a group of people whose friends are mostly plugged into the military industrial complex.

Wars, except in the case where we are defending our homeland, we can mostly do without. Research wars going back to at least Vietnam and you will quickly find that the pretexts for just about every one was either fabricated in the worst or based on bad judgement and equally bad information in the best case. Beyond the actual out-of-pocket spendding related to the wars you also have to account for the debt service created to finance these cluster-fracks. On the other hand, some of these 'entitlements' that you speak of are humanitarian necessities --- unless of course you are prepared to just allow people to die on the streets.

Thank you for the chart; very helpful! If I may gently suggest something? It's nothing but my opinion; however, I believe if we keep politics out of it (following the OPs example), we might find that we get more people interested in learning the facts and less people arguing Party and derailing the thread.

We all know that conversations evolve but it seems really important to keep this thread right on track - the public needs to be informed. So, maybe if we leave politics completely out of it and focus on finding all the facts that we can ~ such as the one you provided ~ this could be monumental in that it has the potential to supersede political differences and bring us together on at least ONE thing that affects all of us, regardless of political affiliation.

Just a request from someone really interested in this information.

Originally posted by queenannie38
That is the only danger to our freedom that truly exists…our inability to remain sovereign due to insurmountable growing debt is the only thing that will destroy this country...

Actually, debt is not a problem.

It's just fictional and imaginary.

As long as the people of the land have skills, knowledge, talents, they will always be rich.

You can always eliminate the debt by a simple legislation, restoring the playing field for the people to function once again. But, you can't restore the skills, knowledge, talents, etc..by legislation.

In the old days, all debts were wiped out every 7 years. People started again. They could, because the real wealth was in what they could do, not who and how much they owed.

The trick is to eliminate all debt by legislation, before there is an exodus of skills, knowledge, and talents, to other countries.

If the legislators wait too long, people will move to more prosperous lands.

That's partly how America got rich, in the first place. All the worlds talents and skills "drained" into America from all over the world.

There has been a "reverse brain drain" in some sectors of American society. Like educated Indians rushing back to India to set up businesses there and place their stake in the new wild wild west, or I should say wild wild east. Something like 60,000 Indians per year with advance degrees from American Institutions were returning to India at one point. I don't know what the statistics are today. But, that's the only real problem America has.

Exodus of the trained and skilled, and excess immigration from the undocumented unskilled, causing the ratio of skilled to unskilled to move in the unfavorable direction.

taxes. and too much waste.

america claims not to be a socialist state but taxes are funding a lot of peoples salaries, health coverage and to many corporations to count.

so much so that if you where to alter course, millions of people, including the "elite" would be standing in the soup line the next day.

We will be much better off once we realize that we are ALL in this together.

i have no gripe with the people of Iran nor any other nation for that matter, they have never done a thing to infringe upon my freedom or happiness, nor i their's. i wish them ALL nothing but the best.

My 'leaders' have not represented my interests for quite some time, if ever in my thirty one years . Once WE all realize that the real power lies with US we can begin to reshape this world.

S&F for the well thought out thread.

Wars are definitely bringing down the economy...


Along with the depreciating fiat money backing them and those who provide it and ultimately profit from the wars.

It's not money we're dropping on/shooting at the "enemies."

That might explain a few countries but what about the rest? Your title says US but what about the other countries. Just curious. Also, doesn't explain welfare, TANF grants, food stamps, medicare, medicaid, social security. And what about the bailouts? Were those bank's failures due to wars? If only the USA then what about the billions given to other countries? And what about this? www.corbettreport.com...

I also agree, OP did a heck of a job.

It would be nice to blame one thing, but it's a combination of very bad spending choices.

reply to post by Gridrebel


I personally can't bring myself to b*tch about most welfare. If it weren't for medicaid coverage during my wife's pregnancies, my kids might not around. If it weren't for food stamps and TANF, my teen sister and her kid would probably go hungry more often than not, not to mention TANF helping collect child support from dead-beat fathers. SS and medicare I've not reached the age to deal with personally, but I think the more important issue is the amount of the trust funds for those programs being put towards debt securities. Sure they collect interest, but from the Treasury, which means ultimately from the taxpayer, whose money buys those bonds only to have to pay them back (did I mention with interest?)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for able bodied adults taking advantage of welfare programs, but I've personally experienced them helping those who really need it. I'd rather my money go towards welfare than war any day.

War, itself, is not the reason. Remember that WWII gave the US all the power it had, it got rich from war as have many other countries.

It's the "declaring a war on an adjective" that is the reason ... there are no goals, nothing that will be gained, or accomplished through this war. It's insanity, of a moron with an intellect of a rat.

Basically speaking.

Take NASA as an example. Where are the dreams? Where are the Einsteins, the von Brauns, the people who have visions?

Where did they all go to?

What happened to them?

There is no vision, no dream ... there is no goal ... no stars to reach.

That's the problem ... you gave the jobs to monkeys, and sent the visionaries home.

War on terror? is that a joke?

War on drugs? what?

Operation: Sustain freedom
Operation: Sustain comfort
Operation: Desert strike
Operation: Desert fox

Seriously ... it has to be argued, that there is a serious lack of visionaries?

reply to post by camaro68ss


Actually the belief that SS is in the red is a misconception it's only because the federal government borrowed from this fund to pay for other stuff!

When program revenues exceed payments (i.e., the program is in surplus) the extra funds are borrowed and used by the government for other purposes, but a legal obligation to program recipients is created to the extent this occurs. These surpluses add to the Trust Fund. At the end of 2011, the Trust Fund contained (or alternatively, was owed) $2.7 trillion, up $69 billion from 2010.[1] The fund is required by law to be invested in non-marketable securities issued and guaranteed by the "full faith and credit" of the federal government.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
reply to post by queenannie38

 

Technically there separate accounts but there really not. Remember the hole debt ceiling debacle last year? Remember when Obama said he could not guarantee SS checks would go out if we reached the ceiling. I know, you’re asking yourself that question now, how can that be possible if there two different accounts??? Well your government raided the SS trust fund to pay for their war and pet projects now.

theres no money left. Im paying into a ponzi scheme by force. A ponzi scheme that i will never get to see a cent out of.

So u already know they raided the SS fund and so does that make it right to cut SS when there should be 2.7 trillion dollars in there! Let them cut the military budgets and all the other federal jobs that have no right being there that do nothing but drain the economy! I don't want to hear how this military spending creats jobs because it does at who's cost and benefit? While taking real jobs that should be spent on repairing state and federal infastructure or other federal projects that could really benifit our country to create something tangible instead of destruction!

Trustees of the programs said Tuesday that Social Security will start paying out more in benefits than it collects in taxes in 2016, one year sooner than projected last year, and the giant trust fund will be depleted by 2037, four years sooner.


www.usatoday.com...

reply to post by queenannie38


Expect another big jolt right after the US Presidential elections; it's pretty darn obvious.

SS trust funds required to purchase gov bonds. Medicare trust funds required to purchase gov bonds. USPS retirement funds required to purchase gov bonds. etc. etc.

And when the treasury's shtf, the Fed will be there to say, "We got your back!!!... No, really, turn around and bend over. Don't worry, we'll 'quantitatively' ease it in. Besides, if any damage does occur, you've got that mandated health insurance..."