sacrifice it all for it all? can you die so we live?

So I was thinking. I cant help but wonder if our idea of keeping everyone around, happy, well fed, and at peace the way we have been is in fact too much to ask. I keep thinking that maybe we are reaching a point that we cant keep this around the way it is. The world. Maybe our numbers are too great and our ideals too costly. Maybe our liberty is not realistic. Perhaps we waste too much and do not take advantage of our people, of everyones capabilities because they are lost in a sea of people too large to navigate and fish from it all the talent wasted changing tires or bussing tables.


What if for us to survive as s species we need to slow our rate of reproduction and tighten our belts a bit in terms of our aspirations and goals. If everyone wanted just a hot meal warm bed and the security to love our people we might not have the high risk conflicts we see.

So the question. If your species was faced with the cold reality that some of us had to go, would you sacrifice yourself so they could?

Lets put it into context. If you are on a boat and there is not enough food for everyone to complete the journey, would you throw YOURSELF over board so the others could survive?

I think I would have to say yes. I would. Not from a moral point of view or an ethical perspective. They would help me get through it and might be why I think to do so, but I would have to since logic dictates that the needs of the many are more important than the needs of the few. I would sacrifice myself for our survival.

I would like for my wife and child to survive me. If it was an all or nothing situation. Where our species had to reduce its numbers for the survival of it at all, I think we all would just lay down and try to die with what grace and dignity we lived. If my bloodline had to die out for our people to live, I would do what had to be done. I would try for my child to live some of her little life and see the beauty of this world as best She could before it had to end.

A hard choice to make but if it was necessary for any of us to make it, I would think of our species and bitterly decide for a greater good.

I hope we never face that situation, but if we did I would see our people off with love and gods speed.

What say you. Would you sacrifice all you are and all you ever were for us all. Even if it meant seeing your little ones and your loved ones end with you?

You dont have to answer as it is that thinking about it can bring tears to your eyes. I do want us to think about it. I have no alterior motives. I just want us to contemplate a greater good over our own personal truth.

Maybe we are the sum of us in a bad situation. Maybe we can put things into perspective in a good situation.

Are you yourself your family or your species...EDIT: and are those to be defended above all and at the cost of it all
???...things that are good to know.

Thoughts?

Just to be clear. I am not asking if you think it would be justified to get rid of other people so we can survive. I am asking if YOU could get yourself out of humanities way if it came down to it.

No choosing for others. Just yourself.

Self-sacrifice is a way of life in the army, especially in a combat arms MOS like I was in. I could definitely sacrifice myself if it meant others could live on happily. However, I think you have sort of a pessimistic view on our population. Our world really isn't that overpopulated. Sure we gorge ourselves on thinks we don't need and so wasteful spending, but its not like we have to continue doing that to survive as a species. We just don't take care of the people who need to be taken care of. We could easily reduce our nation's food supply and force Americans to cut back while we send help to struggling nations. Also there is plenty of unoccupied land left on the Earth, I'd think that it would be more humane to relocate people to other parts of the world (along with providing them a means to get restarted in their new location) then start euthanizing the population.

There are many problems with the world, killing large parts of the population so we can continue to live like slobs isn't an answer to them though.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I wasnt saying kill off people. I was asking IF you realized that we could not survive if at some point we grow too big for our own good could we come to terms with a hard choice. And to what degree of SELF sacrifice could we deal with.

I agree with the rest of your post though. We are not at that point and would have options before we did reach that point.

Thanks by the way.

Originally posted by BIHOTZ

Lets put it into context. If you are on a boat and there is not enough food for everyone to complete the journey, would you throw YOURSELF over board so the others could survive?

And just throw out perfectly good meat?
Eat the weak.


I'm sure most of us have seen at least 1 movie, regarding that scenario. It definitely wouldn't be easy, but if it came down to it, I feel that I could do it. 'Tastes just like chicken'


As a direct answer to your question:
Since most people suck, I'm gonna say "Hell no!!"


By choice, I have neither a wife, nor kids. If I did have, then my answer may have been different.

Originally posted by BIHOTZ

I wasnt saying kill off people. I was asking IF you realized that we could not survive if at some point we grow too big for our own good could we come to terms with a hard choice. And to what degree of SELF sacrifice could we deal with.

There is one possibility that you may not have thought of yet:

One method with which to kill off a large portion of the population, could be through the use of chicanery.

I'm not saying this is likely at this time, but possibly far into the future. Convince most people that their loved one's will soon die, and that the entire Human Race will become extinct, unless people start 'offing' themselves.



Genocide creates fear, and anger. Give the people hope for the future of their loved ones, and maybe, just maybe, you can trick them into doing it themselves.

You know, not to sound like a sad sack but I've thought this many times. I would happily remove myself from the equation if it would provide better balance to the situation. I'm always the first to go in a dangerous situation, I've put my life on the line twice to help others. Once with a burning car, the other jumping off the pier next the waves crashing into rocks to fetch a child, got cut up good on the barnacles and muscles on the piers posts too.

I wouldn't think twice about it really. If there was a situation, where I'm one too many I would volunteer to go. Preferably with the least amount of suffering, but if it meant saving others from said suffering with out a doubt.

THe problem isn't overpopulation. The problem is we don't know ourselves....and when we do, we shall learn that many things we think we need today, we don't need at all.

Check out these DVDs/videos to start --

Discovery Channel: Boy with Divine Powers
Eat the Sun

...tip of a huge unseen iceberg about ourselves.

But because a "Phoenix only rises from ashes,"....there needs to be more "ashes" around...until that happens...nothing will change because there are too many external distractions.
Who's paying attention to the folk stoking the fire?

The question is not suitable for me since I have been thru experiances that give me proof of something more, so I have abseloutly no fear of death and dying is not such a big thing in my mind and not really a big sacrifice. But I would like to sleep in when I die because I have a feeling the instant might hurt very much when the body gives up.

Perhaps everything mentioned in the OP is an artificial deck of cards that is not the way earth is, which is abundant and we need to get this poison of our ISMS out of the way of the billions who need food shelter and homes, energy, and have the right to have land and resources without $$$$ signs attached, as we all co-own everything, and really nothing for its our great great great great grandchildren who we should consider owners, and tap it light.

Maybe the only problem with birthrate is that in countries that are heaviliy controlled by Fascism and Theocracies and being exploited by TPTB and the corporations, such as the middle east and africa are growing in numbers, according to the agenda of the PTB, and they need a good healhty dose of democracy, freedom and equality.

They need land, homes, resources.

I have it all in my thread here.

ISMS, opinions.

You know something, if we already had this, living free, choosing what we wanted to work at, if at all, farming and doing no harm to anyone or anything, there would be this group of massive haters who think Lazy useless eaters having fun, we need slaves, how dare they think they should be free and happy, unless they benefit us or we can control them they are useless, quick push the reset button, humans are pathetic!

Because a group of people that can't stand other people simply living and loving and having decent free lives if it doesnt benefit them or fit under their controlling thumbs.

Plenty of land, aquaponics on 3 acres can grow 1 million pounds of food and 10 000 fish.

There are alternative energy solutions for all.

Just have to equalize.

Savvy?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We can already do all of this an more!

Why the hell aren't we? I've been ready to stand up and not sit down in crowds of billions demanding this all my life and speaking out to my family about it and anyone I could since I was in my 20's. I don't understand how anyone anywhere cannot get with it and right the freaking wrongs! I'm still waiting and stricken by all the pain and suffering caused by ISMS, an artificial deck of cards.

i could make the sacrifice , but only if every person in the world would start caring for each other.
2nd

reply to post by BIHOTZ

So the question. If your species was faced with the cold reality that some of us had to go, would you sacrifice yourself so they could?

Lets put it into context. If you are on a boat and there is not enough food for everyone to complete the journey, would you throw YOURSELF over board so the others could survive?

ALL OR NOTHING!

The real problem is a bunch of snotty nosed, selfish greedy immature slimy toads run this world and they have control, and before they would give up that in free energy and homes for all and abundance and freedom and equalize they would rather kill everyone.

I could say, to not be judgmental, those who act like a bunch of snotty nosed, selfish greedy and immature slimy toads and happen to be our leaders and those propping them up, by I prefer the short cut. I have unconditional love for them, but its still the truth of their behavior and will fight for freedom if necessary if every other means doesnt work. Karma free.

NO MORE SACRIFICES ALLOWED. THE COSMOS IS SICKENED BY IT.

ALL OR NOTHING!

Shouting because this is for real, and the most important issue going during this time in history. PERIOD.

Also, think on this, I got it when I was quite young. 1 dying unfairly = billions dying unfairly. 1 wronged = billions wronged. Its all highly subjective, we all experience one by one.

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
Lets put it into context. If you are on a boat and there is not enough food for everyone to complete the journey, would you throw YOURSELF over board so the others could survive?

Only if the other people in the boat were my kids and only if there was someone else stronger/healthier to watch over them.

What say you. Would you sacrifice all you are and all you ever were for us all. Even if it meant seeing your little ones and your loved ones end with you?

No, not if my children also died. I would definitely sacrifice myself if it meant my children's assured survival. Otherwise, not a chance. Because, I want them to survive at any cost, even if that means being a cutthroat Mama Bear in a survival situation.

I could die so my children could live. That's the whole point of genetic reproduction, and that instinct is very strong in me.

I may or may not sacrifice myself for random strangers. It would pretty much depend on the makeup of the group of individuals I was dying to save.

They say chivalry is dead, and I do actually believe this. So, frankly, I would not sacrifice myself to save a bunch of overweight middle-aged men who would rather throw children overboard than have the guts to do so themselves. Likewise, I would not do so if the other people were unhealthy, elderly, or all of one gender.

I would refuse to sacrifice myself if the remaining people were all children, though. This is because they would have a much greater chance of survival with an accompanying adult to procure food and shelter.

Interesting to think about...

Originally posted by Unity_99
The real problem is a bunch of snotty nosed, selfish greedy immature slimy toads run this world and they have control, and before they would give up that in free energy and homes for all and abundance and freedom and equalize they would rather kill everyone.

I could say, to not be judgmental, those who act like a bunch of snotty nosed, selfish greedy and immature slimy toads and happen to be our leaders and those propping them up, by I prefer the short cut. I have unconditional love for them, but its still the truth of their behavior and will fight for freedom if necessary if every other means doesnt work. Karma free.

NO MORE SACRIFICES ALLOWED. THE COSMOS IS SICKENED BY IT.

ALL OR NOTHING!

Shouting because this is for real, and the most important issue going during this time in history. PERIOD.

Also, think on this, I got it when I was quite young. 1 dying unfairly = billions dying unfairly. 1 wronged = billions wronged. Its all highly subjective, we all experience one by one.

edit on 10-8-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

I hope we get it but unfotunatly I do not see any other way of doing it but by a harvest/reseed scenario but my mind is only human and do not have all the informations so I can be totaly wrong. We can love them unconditionally however much we want, but if we cannot break through the sickness that is the ego insanety then that love will never reach where it is needed. I can only figure out 2 solutions when the person will not see reason at all: death or total loss of free will until they get it (maybe by outside source trapping them in onenessbliss). You cannot help people who do not want to listen/understand and are caught up in selfhurting ego behaviour. Poor smallminded people that are in power. They will lose so much for so little because of their actions and it does not matter how much they belive they will not pay the price. If one single soul in the universe demands justice, justice will be served by All to All. What you do to one you do in a way to all, including yourself.

But however much I disslike earth (humanity as a whole) for it's lack of really evolving fast and being extreamly ignorant and smallminded, I still cannot say that this place do not do what it is supposed to do. But I would like this place to be a University and not a Daycare center but is that really for me to decide. I think we might land somewhere in between where it will at least not only be a daycare center for spiritual toddlers. Both daycare centers and Universities are needed in this universe.

reply to post by BIHOTZ


This is a reply to the OP. I have not read many of the replies as I am tired and am probably going to try to sleep after this. The problem with self-sacrifice is the fact that the people with the closest sense of altruism (although altruism does not really exist in my opinion, because even what we consider the most altruistic act is spurred by motives such as just feeling good, or not having to live with the guilt that someone else died for you to live) those with the closest sense of altruism quickly die out, and those who are more selfish survive, leaving the planet infested with people who would not do such a thing, and left in the position that they could no longer be defied by those with a higher sense of integrity who would do so in the interest of the greater good. It is good to be a benevolent person, IMO. It is good to be peaceful. But not so peaceful that you become an easier target as prey for the predators. There is a balance for everything. I am faced with a similar dilemma. It has been proposed to me that if I ever ascended from this world before humanity was prepared, the repercussions could be dire. It has been a real struggle to stay, I must admit, but like I have said before in a song I have not yet fully finished or published "I wont leave you behind, in order to find, some selfish state of transcendence. I wont leave you behind, I'll carry you inside, the open space in the back of my mind." I would rather find some means to give more through living, and would only lay down my life if I not only knew it was necessary, but if I loved the person(s) I was dying for and knew I was not dying so the greedy could prevail...

reply to post by BIHOTZ


of course...and i wouldn't want to be honored for it.

Yes its a great attribute, and yes its a beautiful thing to be honored for sacrificing your life, but i don't like the idea of being praised for something i would done naturally in the first place.

Its a beautiful thing for people who show they care without even knowing the people they are saving. That is the true meaning of humility in my book.

If all of us had this philosophy on life, and were able to respect life for what it actually is, this world would be a much greater place.

Do not lower yourself to the mass. They think loving someone means receiving money from them and all of your possessions, your love and making you void. They don't see, see. Wanting to make you think gooood, about them. That way they manage to get along with whatever they please. It's is no problem, cause one thinks I am good, and he will tell everyone else that I am good, they think. I can do whatever I like that way, they 'think'. No understanding, just yes and no. They always laugh at you. Ever seen a wise man laugh?

Hell No! This world sucks. There's no point to die for Communism.

Does anybody know the morale of the parable of the sand on the beach?

It always rests at the sea.