Hebrew Alphabet is based on the Star of David..

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Americanist

 

Did you know that based on one of your above post, when you take the tetragrammaton of Yehovah, and stack the letters on top of each other, it also forms what looks like the Kabbalah with the capstone missing?

H
V
H
Y

He's right. You really do have an eye for symbolic connections. I've studied kabbalah for years (thought admittedly not quite as seriously as some) and never quite picked up on that one.

Without going and comparing to the Hebrew alphabet (*not fluent), it wouldn't surprise me in the least if their language is predicated on something as silly as a symbol of a fictitious belief system.

I mean... LINK

I'd like to add, pre-emptively, btw....


I know some might point out that the tree of life as most modern kabbalists know it existed far before the tree was well known in the english-speaking world.

First, the figure known as "the tree of life" has actually taken on a number of forms over the years-- one of the earliest being 10 concentric circles.

Regardless, the formation illustrated is presently the most widely known and used. Some might say it dates before even the english language, though some will tell you it's more likely to be a 12th to 14th century invention. (During this time there were a great many kabbalists studying in europe.)


Anyway.. it is possible, theoretically, that people speaking a language based on "english" characters (english, spanish, latin, french, etc) might have worked the letters of their own sacred name into the image of the tree. This would almost make sense, considering kabbalists love multi-layered symbolism. On the other hand, as I pointed out earlier today-- I am not so sure I really believe in "coincidence" any more, as most people would understand the word. I think reality is far weirder than that.

Originally posted by Sablicious
Without going and comparing to the Hebrew alphabet (*not fluent), it wouldn't surprise me in the least if their language is predicated on something as silly as a symbol of a fictitious belief system.

I mean... LINK

Your post makes it obvious that you know little to nothing of the symbol in question. The OP nicely describes earlier in the thread, some of the other places the hexagram known commonly as the "star of david" originates... or at the least pre-dates the jews. This is established. So I believe you are calling a religion that you literally know nothing about (because this was not, initially, a symbol of the jewish religion) "fictitious?"

The only way you could safely do this is if you are a flat-out and unswayable atheist. In which case, you are likely to be as highly prejudiced and dogamtic in your beliefs as any theist I've known. Sorry for making assumptions... but many atheists I've encountered seem to have this same "virus of faith." In fairness, I did use terms like "likely to be" and "if".... I don't make statements of fact, though you have indicated this may be true with the tone of your post.


Finally, I know that your link was meant to illustrate how stupid religion is. (For those who didn't click, it is about how some orthodox jews are wearing blurry glasses so they do not have to be tempted by lasciviously dressed women). And to those of us who don't have massive hang ups about sex.... yes, that sure does seem a bit extreme and silly. But as far as I am concerned, that is a very healthy, clever, and most importantly, TOLERANT way to handle the issue of a discrepancey over sexual morality in a given society.

Many religions would say that is the "immoral" women who should change their ways and not tempt men with their sinful bodies. These guys? "Oh, well, maybe if I put on blurry glasses, I can avoid leading myself into temptation."

Sounds like a winning philosophy to me.

Your standards for a "good" religion must be pretty high.

Or do you just automatically hate all religion out of prejudice?

reply to post by iwilliam


Thank you, I have no idea how my eyes caught only those fragments, and my brain filled in what it did. However, I am glad that such a thing happened, because I do indeed agree with my first response after reviewing the Tree again....Only thing is; Is YHVH broken? His tree would have 9 spheres, while most have 10. What if there is a missing piece to his name that fills in the void of the 10th sphere?

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


uh, can you, um, provide the English comparison to the Hebrew alphabet so that I know what is what?

Thanks for the post though, great reading!

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by theabsolutetruth

 

Solomon was not a person. The story is an allegory, which I thought I explained with the SOL-OM-ON, being three names of the Sun. How can the use be considered dated after the language, when the Seal, was never used as such. I'm my assertion is that the Seal of SOL-OM-ON, is where there letters were derived from, because the Seal is the creation of everything. This gets deeper into Occult knowledge, like Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and etc.

/E: I noticed my tone in the beginning sounded a bit ill; I'm not, I'm merely commenting and inquiring. I don't understand how you could still come to the conclusion that you did. Although I always welcome and respect alternate opinions.

The Star is not so much a symbol but what it also represents. The meaning behind the star is older than the Hebrew language. I think that's a good statement to end on to clear the confusion on my part, and actually understand where I am going with this.

edit on 11-8-2012 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

I never mentioned SOLOMAN.

Anyhow it appears you don't understand the Hebrew alphabet was formed from the Phoenician alphabet, it did not derive from a hexagram no matter how much you want it to.

Additionally I have studied on high levels many esoteric wisdoms for more than 20 years, including Judaism, Khabalah, Numerology, Tarot etc as well as various sciences. I do know the things of which I speak.

It appears that you do not know much of these things at any in depth level, you may want to, but I get the impression you are very young and are trying presenting knowledge but without the information relevant to your supposed ideas which are actually just things on the internet which are already disproven.

Taking ideas like OP and the hebrew letters corresponding to Tetragrammaton is not your idea, you aren't fooling anyone.

If you actually want to learn then spouting nonsense on ATS isn't the way.

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

 

uh, can you, um, provide the English comparison to the Hebrew alphabet so that I know what is what?

Thanks for the post though, great reading!

I posted these and the Phoenician origins of the Hebrew alphabet on page 2 of this thread.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


Making a thread about a hoax that has been about for years, and pretending it was your own idea really doesn't lend any credibility at all.

Nor does posting things like

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=14747859#pid14747859

It's a shame the Star of David, was never the Star of David, and predates the use as such...

and

And you tell him to drop the elitist attitude.....Shut up hypocrite, Jesus would be ashamed of you...

The Hebrew alphabet ISN'T based on a hexagram, it evolved from Phoenician, therefore the title and content of the OP on this thread is FALSE.

then you started saying you meant evolution from a hexagram making it even more ''occult''.

Seriously, admitting the basic facts first would be a good idea. Then if you wanted to discuss the ''Star of David'' it should be on another thread. There are plenty of informative websites on that as well, maybe read them before posting stuff claiming some ''flash of wisdom'' insight.

Additionally, you should post the link to where you got the pictures in the OP as they aren't your own.

So which website did you get them from?

Was it from this website?

heavenawaits.wordpress.com...

I posted this link already but here it is again, an actual scholar of these 'mysteries' debunking the OP's claim just a few weeks ago....

ETA some of the replies on this thread look like you are replying to yourself, troll thread much?

www.nccg.org...

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

 

Making a thread about a hoax that has been about for years, and pretending it was your own idea really doesn't lend any credibility at all.

....

The Hebrew alphabet ISN'T based on a hexagram, it evolved from Phoenician, therefore the title and content of the OP on this thread is FALSE.

...

I posted this link already but here it is again, an actual scholar of these 'mysteries' debunking the OP's claim just a few weeks ago....

www.nccg.org...

IF OP stole source material without attributing it, that's not cool. If they claim this was a flash of insight, but later found it to be independently verified somewhere else, I think that should be mentioned.

If by "about a hoax" you mean the premise, specifically (about the aleph bet) and not just poster's claims of originality, I think that language is a little strong.

While you are absolutely correct that there are clear and established links between hebrew and earlier languages of the region, (and as the author in the link you posted points out-- modern hebrew is not exactly the same, pictographically, as when it was created)-- however, I think this refutation ignores a number of factors. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, hebrew letters contain multiple layers of meaning. This can be seen in the language as well (more so in the ancient world). Also please remember you're talking about a religion that believes its god puts his mark on all things, so to speak.... it could easily be argued that this was one of those strange "meaningful coincidences."


Some people believe that god used an equidistant skip sequence to encode information into their holy book. While this is, admittedly, a bit less of a dramatic and weird coincidence, I don't think you can give credence to the one idea (or at least not label it a hoax) but scoff and never bother to consider the possibility of the other.

Also take note that the scholar you quote has this to say, on the page you link:

3. The Seal of Solomon is in reality a pagan symbol known as the Star of Remphan or Moloch whose only inspiration is from the 'dark side' - see my article, Deadly Star: The Mystery of Solomon's Seal Revealed

While at least 10 words of this statement are based in verifiable fact, I would say that his opinion is not reflective of either mainstream judaism, or most schools of "jewish mysticism," and I was rather surprised, as I see this kind of opinion far more in fundamental christianity than judaism.


It is also worthy to note: To say that the original pictographic forms look NOTHING like their modern equivalents is disingenuous, IMO. Some look similar. Some are strikingly different at first... but if you look at them from a symbological standpoint, and their evolution from primitive to more finalized forms, you will see that each of the modern letters, even where some do not look exactly the same, contain elements of the original.

Originally posted by iwilliam

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

 

Making a thread about a hoax that has been about for years, and pretending it was your own idea really doesn't lend any credibility at all.

....

The Hebrew alphabet ISN'T based on a hexagram, it evolved from Phoenician, therefore the title and content of the OP on this thread is FALSE.

...

I posted this link already but here it is again, an actual scholar of these 'mysteries' debunking the OP's claim just a few weeks ago....

www.nccg.org...

IF OP stole source material without attributing it, that's not cool. If they claim this was a flash of insight, but later found it to be independently verified somewhere else, I think that should be mentioned.

If by "about a hoax" you mean the premise, specifically (about the aleph bet) and not just poster's claims of originality, I think that language is a little strong.

While you are absolutely correct that there are clear and established links between hebrew and earlier languages of the region, (and as the author in the link you posted points out-- modern hebrew is not exactly the same, pictographically, as when it was created)-- however, I think this refutation ignores a number of factors. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, hebrew letters contain multiple layers of meaning. This can be seen in the language as well (more so in the ancient world). Also please remember you're talking about a religion that believes its god puts his mark on all things, so to speak.... it could easily be argued that this was one of those strange "meaningful coincidences."


Some people believe that god used an equidistant skip sequence to encode information into their holy book. While this is, admittedly, a bit less of a dramatic and weird coincidence, I don't think you can give credence to the one idea (or at least not label it a hoax) but scoff and never bother to consider the possibility of the other.

edit on 12-8-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)

I am well aware that there is a possibility of multiple meanings to the Hebrew alphabet and to 'GOD' being in everything....HOWEVER, the facts are that the Hebrew alphabet was derived from Phoenician, please see images previously posted on page 2 for these images. Therefore the OP is wrong. The Hebrew alphabet WASN'T based on a hexagram.

If OP wanted to talk about the general multiplicity of the Hebrew alphabet then that is another thread, same for Seal of Soloman.

The Seal of Solomon has more significance to other religious traditions than Judaism but again that is another thread.

ETA looks like OP maybe got those images from
heavenawaits.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by iwilliam
Also take note that the scholar you quote has this to say, on the page you link:

3. The Seal of Solomon is in reality a pagan symbol known as the Star of Remphan or Moloch whose only inspiration is from the 'dark side' - see my article, Deadly Star: The Mystery of Solomon's Seal Revealed

While at least 10 words of this statement are based in verifiable fact, I would say that his opinion is not reflective of either mainstream judaism, or most schools of "jewish mysticism," and I was rather surprised, as I see this kind of opinion far more in fundamental christianity than judaism.

It is also worthy to note: To say that the original pictographic forms look NOTHING like their modern equivalents is disingenuous, IMO. Some look similar. Some are strikingly different at first... but if you look at them from a symbological standpoint, and their evolution from primitive to more finalized forms, you will see that each of the modern letters, even where some do not look exactly the same, contain elements of the original.

Actually true scholars of Judaism don't associate much to the Seal of Soloman, especially seeing as it was only associated to Jews in the 17th century in Germany by Isaac Luria, who was a Khabbalist.

I will post these FYI but these are really for another thread.
www.despatch.cth.com.au...





www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Between 1300 and 1700 the two terms, shield of David and seal of Solomon, are used indiscriminately, predominantly in magical texts, but slowly the former gained ascendancy. It was also used, from 1492, as a printers' sign, especially in books printed in Prague in the first half of the 16th century and in the books printed by the Foa family in Italy and Holland, who incorporated it in their coat of arms. Several Italian Jewish families followed their example between 1660 and 1770. All these usages had as yet no general Jewish connotation. The official use of the shield of David can be traced to Prague, from where it spread in the 17th and 18th centuries through Moravia and Austria and later to southern Germany and Holland. In 1354, Charles IV granted the Prague community the privilege of bearing its own flag – later called in documents "King David's flag" – on which the hexagram was depicted. It therefore became an official emblem, probably chosen because of its significance as a symbol of the days of old when King David, as it were, wore it on his shield. This explains its wide use in Prague, in synagogues, on the official seal of the community, on printed books, and on other objects. Here it was always called magen David. Its use on the tombstone (1613) of David Gans, the astronomer and historian, was still exceptional, obviously in reference to the title of his last work Magen David. Except for one tombstone in Bordeaux (c. 1726), no other example of its being used on tombstones is known before the end of the 18th century. A curious parallel to the development in Prague is the one case of a representation of the Synagogue as an allegorical figure, holding a flag bearing the magen David in a 14th-century Catalan manuscript of the Breviar d'amor by Matfre d'Ermengaud (Ms. of Yates Thompson 31 in the British Museum).

The prime motive behind the wide diffusion of the sign in the 19th century was the desire to imitate Christianity. The Jews looked for a striking and simple sign which would "symbolize" Judaism in the same way as the cross symbolizes Christianity. This led to the ascendancy of the magen David in official use, on ritual objects and in many other ways. From central and Western Europe it made its way to Eastern Europe and to Oriental Jewry. Almost every synagogue bore it; innumerable communities, and private and charitable organizations stamped it on their seals and letterheads. Whereas during the 18th century its use on ritual objects was still very restricted – a good specimen is a plate for maẓẓot (1770), reproduced on the title page of Monumenta Judaica, catalog of a Jewish exposition in Cologne, 1963 – it now became most popular. By 1799 it had already appeared as a specific Jewish sign in a satirical antisemitic engraving (A. Rubens, Jewish Iconography, no. 1611); in 1822 it was used on the Rothschild family coat of arms when they were raised to the nobility by the Austrian emperor; and from 1840 Heinrich Heine signed his correspondence from Paris in the Augsburger Allgemeine Zeitung with a magen David instead of his name, a remarkable indication of his Jewish identification in spite of his conversion. From such general use it was taken over by the Zionist movement. The very first issue of Die Welt, Herzl's Zionist journal, bore it as its emblem. The magen David became the symbol of new hopes and a new future for the Jewish people, and Franz Rosenzweig also interpreted it in Der Stern der Erloesung (1921) as summing up his philosophical ideas about the meaning of Judaism and the relationships between God, men, and the world. When the Nazis used it as a badge of shame which was to accompany millions on their way to death it took on a new dimension of depth, uniting suffering and hope. While the State of Israel, in its search for Jewish authenticity, chose as its emblem the menorah, a much older Jewish symbol, the magen David was maintained on the national (formerly Zionist) flag, and is widely used in Jewish life. BIBLIOGRAPHY:

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


While the OP was something I read elsewhere, the idea about the tetragrammaton was in fact mine. I didn't find out until afterwards that it was true. This is not the first time my brain has told me something like this.

*Applaud* You can read my profile and see that I'm only 20. Age is just a number, if you believe in the esoteric, you will know all about old souls. As a matter of fact, Manly P. Hall published his work The Secret Teachings of All Ages, when he was only 27. That's about 7 years from now... I'll be 27, and it's my goal to write a book about what I have learned. John Dee and Kelly expanded on the Seal of Solomon, and were court advisors for astrology, to Queen Elizabeth I, I believe?

Evidence can be gleaned from many texts of the occult, that the 'Star of David' or 'Seal of Solomon', Hexagram, etc, has been around for a ridiculously long time. Much longer than it's use as either the Star or Solomon, and maybe even Phoenician. I'm only saying this because of other research that I've done that suggest many or possibly all major cultures: Chinese, Indians(real ones), Egyptians, Mayans, Native Americans, Sumerians etc.. Recognized the significance of balancing the opposites.. The Seal/Star is a symbol that represents a meaning; that meaning has been around longer than even Phoenician....

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Actually it was neither of those, and I never claimed it was my idea (Star of David). In fact, I believe earlier in the thread I said I read it somewhere else, I was simply wanting to share it with the community and see what their thoughts and opinions were. Whether or not other people had figured out the YHVH thing before me, I did not know at the time I thought of it. It was something that happened as william put it 'a flash of insight'.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by theabsolutetruth

 

While the OP was something I read elsewhere, the idea about the tetragrammaton was in fact mine. I didn't find out until afterwards that it was true. This is not the first time my brain has told me something like this.

*Applaud* You can read my profile and see that I'm only 20. Age is just a number, if you believe in the esoteric, you will know all about old souls. As a matter of fact, Manly P. Hall published his work The Secret Teachings of All Ages, when he was only 27. That's about 7 years from now... I'll be 27, and it's my goal to write a book about what I have learned. John Dee and Kelly expanded on the Seal of Solomon, and were court advisors for astrology, to Queen Elizabeth I, I believe?

Evidence can be gleaned from many texts of the occult, that the 'Star of David' or 'Seal of Solomon', Hexagram, etc, has been around for a ridiculously long time. Much longer than it's use as either the Star or Solomon, and maybe even Phoenician. I'm only saying this because of other research that I've done that suggest many or possibly all major cultures: Chinese, Indians(real ones), Egyptians, Mayans, Native Americans, Sumerians etc.. Recognized the significance of balancing the opposites.. The Seal/Star is a symbol that represents a meaning; that meaning has been around longer than even Phoenician....

You are supposed to add a link to the website you are posting the pictures and idea from.

Anyone doing basic TOL research will find the information as to the shape representation so I doubt if you were just sitting there and the idea occurred to you.

I never mentioned the origins of the Seal of Soloman, I posted the quotes about it in reference to it's use in Judaism.

I do actually know plenty of it's origins, perhaps if you wanted to know about them too then actually read things properly. I said the Hebrew alphabet evolved from Phoenician, so do try to read things instead of guessing then criticizing.

ETA I didn't look at your profile, your posting style, lack of insight, the way you talked to people and mix up of symbols in your avatar kind of gave it away that you aren't mature. However this isn't nastiness, just if you go posting stuff as fact, see to it that you research first and make sure you reference the information. Things like this have been posted on ATS for years and if it wasn't me debunking it, it would be somebody else, and probably far less kind than me.

The first page of this thread another poster said

Wow, that is no joke! It reminds me of other ways some alphabets are made. Super-kudos to you sir. Yet another reason I love ATS. How did you come up with that?

you replied

Read my custom title. Wisdom and knowledge is my true love in this world.

Perhaps saying ''I got it from here...'' would have been a better idea.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


I should note on to this, that I do not follow the 'wolf pack' mentality like everyone else does. I have been a loner since the beginning. I have always had my way of different thinking, because why do I care about someone else telling me what to believe. I'm supposed to take his word for it and others that for all I know could be paid to say what they do. I mean come on anytime somebody like David Wilcock or something wants to sell a book people freak out, and say what money-chasers, and hoax artist. Yet nobody says a word about the other ridiculous stuff, like the pharmaceutical companies.

So I don't particularly listen to the Mainstream, I'll decide for myself what to believe. I mean people do it all the time with religions, do they not?

I will agree to disagree with you.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


But when you create a new language that is going to be at the foundation of this religion; if you were 'God's Angel's' and had this knowledge would you not share it with the world? I think it's possible that the language was designed with the Seal in mind, and that it wasn't picked up until much later. I understand that Hebrew evolved from Phoenician. However, when you create that new sect or evolve, you change the letters. I don't find it outside the realm of possibility, that the new sect was designed around something that was very old and had significant meaning to them.

The only reason I don't post links because of the incessant amount of people who complain and nitpick them. Unless they stamp 'TPTB approve' on it; they won't touch it. So they have their own free will to decide what they want to believe; let them find it through their own search. I'm not here to try and spoon feed people in a sense. Not in a arrogant sense; I'm just here to share my views. You can agree or disagree; that is entirely your decision. I can't presume to make that for you.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


I posted links on the Phoenician origins of the Hebrew alphabet, please read them.

I posted links of the origins of Solomons' Seal, please read them,HINT it wasn't used in Judaism and was mostly frowned upon as an occult symbol when the Hebrew alphabet was devised.

Regardless of whether you WANT to post links to the website you got this information from incase it was ''nitpicked'' you are supposed to, the rules say so.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


You don't understand me. By wisdom and knowledge is my true love,I mean everyday and second that I'm not sleeping or working to survive, I'm reading and learning and expanding my knowledge and beliefs. I feel as if I only have such a short period of time until it's up, and I need to know everything that I possibly can. I'm sorry that you disagree with me, but somehow you get the impression I am a harsh or evil person. I'm not. It didn't have to necessarily mean you did read my profile; but anybody can. I'm not hiding who I am.