Christians, I would like your opinion on these verses.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by mojo2012

 

But Moses' path had already been completed before this ever happened.

That's like a teacher giving you a test in school even though she knows she's going to give you an A beforehand. What's the point of the test if you were always going to get an A in the first place?

edit on 10-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

The path doesn't end. You are given free will. That means you have a choice. Think of your choices/actions as answers to questions(tests). You get tested everyday whether you are aware or not. Moses was no different. Just because you are on the right path doesn't mean you will not get tested.

Just because you know the outcome doesn't mean things don't need to be fulfilled.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

God made Moses believe he was going to kill the Hebrews when he never really was, because god knew he wasn't going to kill them beforehand because he is omniscient. You can try to deny it, but that is exactly what he did according to the bible.

I thought god never deceived?

Did God really deceive? Let's look at just the words of God:

Exodus 32:9-10

9 And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

If you'll notice, it looks as though God is giving Moses an option to choose whether or not to let him show his wrath that "may" wax hot against them or "may" consume them. Obviously, God knew how Moses would choose. Possibly in an effort to get Moses to understand patience, tolerance and mercy himself for his own people.

Sometimes it takes reading the verses over and over again to get a better understanding of God's words or intentions, even for myself.

reply to post by Deetermined


Or sometimes, your book is really freaking vague.

It would explain the lack of mental discipline in the followers of your faith. And that, in turn, would explain the swift zombification of any who are dragged into your ranks.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


What can I say? The Bible doesn't state the importance of faith for nothing!

Christians get "dragged" into the ranks by the Holy Spirit. Plain and simple.

reply to post by Deetermined


I can understand that, but it still goes on to say god repented, something god is not able to do because he is omniscient.

As I have said before, since god always knew he would never kill the Hebrews, it is impossible for him to repent saying it. So why does it say he did?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Maybe God only repented for that moment.

For God's will to be completed, as outlined in the Bible, 2/3 of Israel has to be "cut off" and then he puts the other 1/3 through a "refining fire" before he brings them all out of their graves, cleanses them, and combines them into one united nation again as outlined in Ezekiel 37.

reply to post by mojo2012


I can understand where you're coming from.

If we have free will then how does god control everything we do and vice versa? The fact he is omniscient goes to show free will cannot exist, yet it does.

reply to post by Deetermined


If he only repented for that moment he still repented, which an omniscient entity does not have the ability to do.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Maybe we should look at some other verses and their contexts.

Genesis 6:6

And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

2 Samuel 24:16

And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

In the case of Genesis 6:6, I think it means "regretful".

In the case of 2 Samuel 24:16, I think it means "stopped".

More importantly, I think the entire original post can be summed up with:

Isaiah 55:8

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

reply to post by Deetermined


Since those verses say he has the ability to repent that means it must be true? That's circular logic.

If god knew he would repent about creating man before he created us, why would he still go through with it? He had the choice of never creating us before he did.

An omniscient being does not have the ability to repent. You keep ignoring that fact for some reason.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Does the Bible say anything, anywhere, about "selective omniscience"? Maybe that's what we're missing...

reply to post by Deetermined

Maybe we should look at some other verses and their contexts.

Genesis 6:6

And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

"Son...your mother wanted to abort you."

^^^ Modern translation.

Any way you care to slice this, the basic premise is obvious: our so-called "Father" actually did harbor regret towards his crowning creation....a sentient, independent species made "in his own image".

Wow, and I'm supposed to like the Bible? I'm suppose to respect it, base my life on it? Knowing that line is in it? Tough luck. I don't respect people who regret associating with me. And anyone who does, has no self-esteem.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

An omniscient being does not have the ability to repent. You keep ignoring that fact for some reason.

I'm not ignoring that fact. I'm taking into consideration that we may not know what the original meaning of the word is in order to interpret it accurately.

Just like I don't think that God really regretted making man, as it appears to read. There absolutely could be some circular logic involved in that verse and the short of it ended up coming out that way in Genesis 6:6. Maybe God's thoughts included a much lengthier explanation such as....

"I regret that man sins based on their knowledge of good and evil, that I originally created in order that they might know the difference, but has also created a stumbling block for them."

Not that God regrets man. Not that God regrets knowledge. Not that God regrets good. Not that God regrets evil. Maybe God just regrets the result being sin when you throw them all together, but individually, they all serve the greater purpose of God.

This is why I think it is hard for our thoughts and interpretations to always match up with God's.

reply to post by Deetermined

I'm not ignoring that fact. I'm taking into consideration that we may not know what the original meaning of the word is in order to interpret it accurately.

Just like I don't think that God really regretted making man, as it appears to read.

So suddenly you now have the ability to say, "Oh, it didn't mean that, I think it meant this," and completely rewrite a sentence based on your own personal impressions and beliefs?

I should mention that you are clearly biased on the subject. That alone completely invalidates any authority or license for you to influence the scriptures, regardless of their accuracy.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

So suddenly you now have the ability to say, "Oh, it didn't mean that, I think it meant this," and completely rewrite a sentence based on your own personal impressions and beliefs?

I should mention that you are clearly biased on the subject. That alone completely invalidates any authority or license for you to influence the scriptures, regardless of their accuracy.

edit on 10-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I'm saying that I don't know what it means and that my thoughts aren't God's thoughts. I'm just throwing out some possibilities as to what it might mean.

Afterinfinity, you know well that not even Christians interpret all scriptures the same. This only goes to prove that our faith is best put in the hands of someone/something higher, that knows more than ourselves.

Yes, I am clearly biased through faith. Just as you are clearly biased by non-faith.

reply to post by Deetermined


So how can you claim to know how he thinks or how he operates? The bible was written by man, not god, so it is prone to fallibility throughout its entire length.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Since those verses say he has the ability to repent that means it must be true? That's circular logic.

If god knew he would repent about creating man before he created us, why would he still go through with it? He had the choice of never creating us before he did.

An omniscient being does not have the ability to repent. You keep ignoring that fact for some reason.

edit on 10-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

What part of omniscient did you have trouble understanding? I posted the definition from Dictionary.com and you conveniently reject that definition to keep redefining it on your own terms.

Within the definition of omniscient it is clear the God is omniscient.

I even posted the definition of repentance from Dictionary.com and you tried the same tired argument because you refuse to address those definitions.

OK, let's go about it this way: If A=B and B=C, then A=C.

If God is omniscient, omniscient = knowledge and knowledge = repentance, therefore, omniscient=repentance.
God could not have repented if He were not aware of the purpose and need for repentance. God repented on the foreknowledge, just because it happened after simply means this, unless there was a need at the time to repent, God knew the time and the place of repentance. Nothing in the definitions of either word indicates God is not omniscient.

I will post the definitions again and work from there, OK. Tell me, do you reject the accepted, secular meanings of the words?

I have seen you try to cleverly redefine the definitions by discluding certain facets of both definitions.

reply to post by WarminIndy

om·nis·cient (m-nshnt)
adj.
Having total knowledge; knowing everything: an omniscient deity; the omniscient narrator.
n.
1. One having total knowledge.
2. Omniscient God. Used with the.

re·pent 1 (r-pnt)
v. re·pent·ed, re·pent·ing, re·pents
v.intr.
1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.
2. To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
3. To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.
v.tr.
1. To feel regret or self-reproach for: repent one's sins.
2. To cause to feel remorse or regret.

I have not one time changed the definitions of those two words, not once. I don't know where you are getting that from, I think you are just imagining it.

Something with full knowledge of everything (omniscient) cannot repent (feel deep sorrow and regret) for something he knew he would NEVER do. What do you not understand about that? It is so damn simple, yet you cannot seem to grasp it. What's the deal here? Are you seriously this delusional?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Since those verses say he has the ability to repent that means it must be true? That's circular logic.

If god knew he would repent about creating man before he created us, why would he still go through with it? He had the choice of never creating us before he did.

An omniscient being does not have the ability to repent. You keep ignoring that fact for some reason.

edit on 10-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Are you dismayed at the choice God made to create you anyway? Even though He knew you would be in existence to dispute Him and speak against Him and not believe in Him, He went ahead and made the choice for you to be here. Choices, that's the wonderful thing about God because He allows us to make choices. Seems to me you are more upset about being created.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Let's put it this way, an author writes a book, in this book he hints that one of the main characters may be killed off, later in the book, it turns out that the main character doesn't end up dying.

The author cannot repent (feel deep sorrow) about hinting at the possible death of that character because he knew the character wouldn't die all along, the 'hint' always served a purpose, just as everything your god does serves a purpose.

Hopefully this analogy will help you better understand, but I doubt it.