Christians, I would like your opinion on these verses.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Observationalist

 

I think it's odd that no one seems to notice that Gods people are below breaking every commandment, as God is writing them. Even after all they had just witnessed.

Bingo, the Covenant made at Sinai was broken before Moses even came down off Mt. Sinai. What came after was a religion made by men. A tradition of fleshly works wasn't good enough because it didn't touch their spirits, so a better Covenant had to be made.

reply to post by Deetermined


That's not what it says. That's your interpretation.

Are we relying on your interpretation, instead of what it actually says? No wonder I'm not Christian...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


If I were to look at the world around me, I'd say no covenant will ever be good enough.

It's time for a new strategy.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


That's what the Millennium is for.

Read Hebrews 8.

Originally posted by calstorm
Back when I was still a Christian, I asked those in the position of authority in my church about this. It left them flabbergasted and without response. One person called me a liar and refused to even read the passage. However it had me very troubled.
Even though I no longer believe, I still would like to hear what Christians think of this this.
This is not an attack, just an attempt to deal with something that has been bugging me for several years.

Exodus 32: 9-14

9 And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. 11 And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, Lord, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? 12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. 14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

At this point in time Elohim hadn't come in human form for the second covenant. Israel broke the first covenant before Moses ever left the Mountain. God was testing Moses from the very beginning to see if he was ready to take over leadership of Israel and be their intermediary and Moses proved himself true. He relented for his own sake so that his name wouldn't be tarnished to the gentiles he sought to prove in Egypt that he is the Soverign Elohim. Each one of the 10 plagues was designed to mock one of the Egyptians gods, ending with the 10th plague engineered to mock Osiris who couldn't resurrect the dead he slaughtered.

Exodus 32:7

7 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go, get down! For your people whom you brought out of the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves.

Here above Elohim had been ready to disown Israel and turn them over to Moses.

Ezekiel 20:21-24

21 “Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness. 22 Nevertheless I withdrew My hand and acted for My name’s sake, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 23 Also I raised My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the Gentiles and disperse them throughout the countries, 24 because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers’ idols.


Exodus 32:33-34

33 And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. 34 Now therefore, go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you. Behold, My Angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit for punishment, I will visit punishment upon them for their sin.”

This is the day Jesus showed up and said :

John 9:39-41

39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”

40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”

41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

Throughout the entire Tenach we see that there are always 2 camps of people, the idolatrous people, and the faithful. The idolatars were reapeatedly sent into exile while the faithful always stayed in the land of their inheritance. Christianity mirrored Israel the same way, even to this day. When Jesus arrived in Jerusalem he found Israel in the Laodician lukewarm state, there were some who were faithful but more were not and when he returns he will find the current church in the same state but the exile will be final, the second death, the last exile.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Deetermined

 

That's not what it says. That's your interpretation.

Are we relying on your interpretation, instead of what it actually says? No wonder I'm not Christian...

You don't have an interpretation because you've never read the book. So, you're not relying on anything but the opinions of others. You're not a christian because you are unjustly biased against something you know nothing about.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

If I were to look at the world around me, I'd say no covenant will ever be good enough.

It's time for a new strategy.

Looking at the world around me I would say it is the result of people who do not walk right, who reject and deny the laws of God and disrespect the humanity around them. That is not God's fault, that is the error of human beings that reject the laws of God, even those who say they believe in God. Believing in God and walking rightly are not always the same thing.

If you truly, and I mean truly, say you believe in God, then your life should be an example of that in how you talk and walk and conduct yourself. What you have seen is the rejection of God's laws.

reply to post by WarminIndy


To repent is to feel really bad about something and taking it back. How is it possible god felt bad about something he knew he would never do in the first place?

That's like me saying I'm going to play a really great game of golf when I know I'm not and then I feel really bad about saying it after having a terrible game. It's not logical.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


The Hebrews that were saved from Egypt, excuse me for not specifying.

From the link you so desperately defend:

We will maintain that God does not change His mind, nor is there ever a reason for God to “repent”

So do you defend that god cannot repent or not? If the verse is an anthropomorphication, what makes you think nothing else in the bible is? An anthropomorphication implies fallibility.

reply to post by WarminIndy


You keep implying I am somehow using a straw man when I am not. I was clearly taking your point of view to make a point, if you could not distinguish that obvious notion, it is your fault, not mine.

The fact you are saying I was using a straw man when I wasn't (I was saying your god is omniscient which you agree with) means you are the one using the straw man.

My interpretation is that this verse is a fallible one, made by man.

reply to post by Deetermined


If god did not repent then he must have deceived Moses in order to get him or whoever else was watching to learn a lesson.

de·ceive
/diˈsēv/
Verb
(of a person) Cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage.
(of a thing) Give a mistaken impression: "the area may seem to offer nothing of interest, but don't be deceived".

God made Moses believe he was going to kill the Hebrews when he never really was, because god knew he wasn't going to kill them beforehand because he is omniscient. You can try to deny it, but that is exactly what he did according to the bible.

I thought god never deceived?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

From the link it says that god didn't change his mind, only Moses convinced him to change his mind. That doesn't make any sense because if Moses convinced him to change his mind, then that means he changed his mind. There's no way around it using that logic.

It also says that god did it to teach Moses a lesson, which is bunch of bologna because god instilled in him righteousness, which means there is no reason for god to teach Moses because he already knew the lesson.

Linking to a clearly biased site is not helping your case out either.

Also, the verse clearly states that god 'repented'. If god did not repent then why does the bible clearly use the word?

edit on 9-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

You get tested whether or not you are on the correct path.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Why would god need to test Moses to see if he was ready if he knew he would be an infinite amount of time beforehand? Implying god was testing him implies god did not know whether he was ready or not.

That would mean god is not omniscient because he had to test him to make sure he was ready. Isn't god sure about everything before it happens?

reply to post by mojo2012


But Moses' path had already been completed before this ever happened.

That's like a teacher giving you a test in school even though she knows she's going to give you an A beforehand. What's the point of the test if you were always going to get an A in the first place?

reply to post by calstorm

. . . while your argument may be valid, I was taught growing up the the King James version was the only acceptable version . . .

It should be obvious that this view on Bible versions is the source of the flabergastion of the elders since it is an untenable position and an unjustifiable aberration, not representing Christianity as a whole.
I would wish for you to take another look at Christ in view of this revelation you have experienced, and find fault in the false doctrines of idolatry (worshiping "pet" texts), and not in Jesus.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


It's no use discussing this with someone whose mind is already made up.

You may as well build a brick wall using clay that's already been made into a pot.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You're not a christian because you are unjustly biased against something you know nothing about.

Bingo !

reply to post by randyvs


I'll refer you to a website your friend NOTurTypical is fond of.

Circumstantial ad hominem

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Yeah, I know they will never see but I enjoy the discussion.

reply to post by Deetermined

I'm sure God was using it as a reminder of what He could do, if He chose to.

Or maybe it was something written down centuries later, after the supposed event, and was the writer's interpretation of what he thought The Lord might have said.
You seem to have an extreme form of fundamentalism quite unnecessary for believing in Jesus, which I would take as the more important thing, rather than an imaginary conversation between a legendary man, Moses, and an unnamed angel claiming to be representing a member of the Shaddayyin.