Gun Ownership should they be a restriction or ban on semi or full auto weapons

reply to post by Wiz4769


Youre wrong about handguns bro. There are no federal restrictions on them beyond that of long guns, except that you have to be 21 to buy one from a federally licensed dealer. However.....in michigan you can own one atb18.....just cant buy from a dealer..

Feds never know you bought one. Just that you attempted to. Form 4473 remains at the dealer.

I dont even have to get a background check at a dealer, since i have a ccw. But the state requires pistol registration here...

reply to post by doobydoll


Wow those gun crime figures make sobering reading.I just cannot comprehend how anybody could think gun ownership for the general public is a good idea

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by doobydoll

 

really ??

It's safer to live in a country where guns are illegal.

show me any country that participates in a gun ban or extreme restrictions (like the UK) that has less violent crime in general (not just gun crime) than the Swiss, please ??

they have mandatory gun ownership and a whole lot less crime than the UK or any other country that has gun restrictions/bans in place.
www.swissinfo.ch...

Citizens owning guns isn't reducing gun crime in the US though is it? I bet it's increasing if anything.

Because our laws make it difficult to obtain guns, it is far safer to live in the UK than the US.

Originally posted by gavlar1974
reply to post by doobydoll

 

Yes finally a person who see sense.A world wide ban, but then what would big companies like Colt do!!Go out of Business or make stun weapons!!! Hell im a genius...lol..End of the day certain elements of world population want pistols, carbines,rifles,high powered sniper rifles auto-semi auto weapons..(Just ask yourself a question would you like a relative hurt or killed by some"Maniac or so called Domestic Terrorist???????#food for thought ...

So why are you trying to get in another country's chili? If you're perfectly okay playing with your airgun and depending on cops with billy sticks (that is until the criminals with the guns come out and then I guess you just hide behind a trash can while the armed "special forces" deploy from wherever the hell they're hiding), then go about your own business and leave us alone.

Who the hell do you think you are trying to get this accomplished in a country you have no right of say in?

Some people.

Originally posted by doobydoll

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by doobydoll

 

really ??

It's safer to live in a country where guns are illegal.

show me any country that participates in a gun ban or extreme restrictions (like the UK) that has less violent crime in general (not just gun crime) than the Swiss, please ??

they have mandatory gun ownership and a whole lot less crime than the UK or any other country that has gun restrictions/bans in place.
www.swissinfo.ch...

Citizens owning guns isn't reducing gun crime in the US though is it? I bet it's increasing if anything.

Because our laws make it difficult to obtain guns, it is far safer to live in the UK than the US.

I really and truly want you to stay there as well. See how easy it is for us to all get along?

scaredy-cat

reply to post by CosmicCitizen


Switzerland is a bit of a one off it is one of the most affluent countries in the world the higher the per capita income a country has the less crime it tends to have
Over the majority of western europe gun crime rates are roughly a quarter than that of the usa

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by doobydoll

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by doobydoll

 

really ??

It's safer to live in a country where guns are illegal.

show me any country that participates in a gun ban or extreme restrictions (like the UK) that has less violent crime in general (not just gun crime) than the Swiss, please ??

they have mandatory gun ownership and a whole lot less crime than the UK or any other country that has gun restrictions/bans in place.
www.swissinfo.ch...

Citizens owning guns isn't reducing gun crime in the US though is it? I bet it's increasing if anything.

Because our laws make it difficult to obtain guns, it is far safer to live in the UK than the US.

I really and truly want you to stay there as well. See how easy it is for us to all get along?

scaredy-cat

Hmmm, and here's me thinking we were having a mature discussion here.

I prefer to stay here, believe me, .....
www.gun-control-network.org...
www.guardian.co.uk...

This whole post is and the OP in question is symbolic of the lack of knowledge about US gun laws. I am sure the BBC makes it seem like you can walk in and pick up a TOW missile at the local Wal Mart. In fact, I see most of these posts/rants originate from our friends across the pond in the UK. I like Brits, but I don't know what it is you don't get about this. Americans like their guns...our country was primarily founded on the ability of the individual to own a firearm. Maybe it's historically stuck in your collective memory that our little personally owned firearms kicked out your large professional world beating (at the time) army. Or maybe you are just pissed because we can have guns and you can't. Or maybe it just isn't engrained in the culture like it was here. THE gun kicked the British Army out....twice....the gun freed the slaves, the gun helped us win the west, the gun kept Yamamoto from invading after the Pacific Fleet was on the bottom of Pearl Harbor(rifle behind every blade of grass). Al Quida material recovered has specifically said not to operate inside the US in areas that have high gun ownwership. The gun has, and still for many rural and lower income citizens, puts food on the table. I don't know what it is...... BUT GET OVER IT...my dear UK friends.

BUT.......

Let's go through a few basic steps on firearms purchases.

If you want to purchase a firearm in the US, you go to the gun or sporting goods store. Which of course must have a Federral Firearms License to sell the weapon. In most cases 18 for a rifle or shotgun, 21 for a pistol.

You show proper ID for that state. You fill out the federal background check which is sent in to the FBI and you are checked for any felony convictions and for certain adjuticated records of mental instability (there have been some questions on how deep or thorough this actually is, especially the mental health part and will likely be improved upon)..

If you pass, your fill out the transfer form 4473, which is held by the dealer and must be surrendered to law enforcement upon request. It shows the gun was tranfered from the FFL to you. Seriel numbers and all. Lying on the form or any of the questioneers is also illegal and punishable by fines and imprisonment.

You are typically walked by the FFL to the outside of the store, with them in control of the weapon until you get to the door or your vehicle. And you go home. (this I beleive is actually a state requirement not Federal). This is also ( a relatively weak) prevention on straw sales, which are also illegal.

NOW, those are just the FEDERAL laws; many states and cities have additional requirements. Some require a owners or purchasing license you must show, which shows a certain level of training and/or deeper background checks. Some have waiting or cool off periods. Some have various laws on registering your weapon with the local city or state. Many states or cities have certain bans or additional restrictions on some weapons or accessories, magazine fed semi auto rifles and/or magazine capacity tend to be the most common. You won't find these weapons in stores, nor can they be shipped there. Many states have additional taxes, fees, and other loopholes one must jump through. In some states your firearms are collected upon your death, and cannot be handed down to family in a will (which is ascinine).

The only thing that is "easy" is there is no FEDERAL law against a private individual selling a firearm to another private individual directly. Many states restrict this, but the Feds do not. It's been looked at (the so called "gunshow loophole"), but it heads down the slippery slope of requiring private property to be registered or tracked as sold privately.

So it isn't nessecarily "easy" to buy a firearm in the US, or at least in many places in the US. I beleive there are 60,000 active gun laws in the US. We have enough gun laws.

To repeat what many have said:

Full Auto weapons are essentially banned. I say essentially, because you can own a full auto, but you have a deeper background check, registration, 200$ tax stamp, a slew of paperwork and virtually all full auto production for civillian use is illegal. The full auto to be purchased must be a weapon maufactured prior to 1986. So the few out there are usually held on to buy the owners and go fro several thousands or tens of thousands of dollars. They tend to be looked at more as financial investments then anything else (gun values typically go up, especially if it's a type that's restriced), I know some people that have FFL's just to buy, sell, and trade firearms as collector's items in large quantity.

I keep saying psots, ban this, restrict that, check this, and most of the time, WE ALREADY HAVE. other then outright bans.....which will not happen.

Again...get over it. You don't live here, so really why do you care?

Originally posted by doobydoll
Take a look at this ...
gun facts
What do you say about that then?

Facts? Facts?

If statistical data that has been twisted, contorted, and selectively cherry picked beyond all context qualifies as facts… They you could call it facts.

The first two quoted texts on that article have nothing to do with the data quoted below them. If those quoted text are based on the data listed below them, then the people that made those statements are twisting the truth.

They state murder and suicide rates, but the data is “GUN related deaths” and GUN related suicides”.

Word to the wise. “suicides” does not equal “gun related suicides”.

Here is how you twist the fact by using one, and not the other.
US gun related suicides is around 5.9 per 100k.
US suicide rate is around 11.8 per 100k
Japan gun related suicides is around. 0.04 per 100k.
Japan suicide rate is around …….. 23.8 per 100K!!!!!!!!!!!!

Japan’s suicide rate is over double ours, but the article makes people think they are a suicide free paradise. People still kill themselves in Japan, at over double the US rate, they just find other ways of doing it.

I think if the bad guys can get a hold of them then the good guys should have them too.

All or none that means the gov't too.

If they wanna take my guns then they shouldn't have them either.

This debate about guns is old and stale. Our forefarthers gave us the right to bear arms no matter the form. They did so to protect the interests of the people.

With every right given to us thier is RISK but that risk out weighs the tyrrany that can come about without those rights in place.

Originally posted by Mr Tranny

Originally posted by doobydoll
Take a look at this ...
gun facts
What do you say about that then?

Facts? Facts?

If statistical data that has been twisted, contorted, and selectively cherry picked beyond all context qualifies as facts… They you could call it facts.

The first two quoted texts on that article have nothing to do with the data quoted below them. If those quoted text are based on the data listed below them, then the people that made those statements are twisting the truth.

They state murder and suicide rates, but the data is “GUN related deaths” and GUN related suicides”.

Word to the wise. “suicides” does not equal “gun related suicides”.

Here is how you twist the fact by using one, and not the other.
US gun related suicides is around 5.9 per 100k.
US suicide rate is around 11.8 per 100k
Japan gun related suicides is around. 0.04 per 100k.
Japan suicide rate is around …….. 23.8 per 100K!!!!!!!!!!!!

Japan’s suicide rate is over double ours, but the article makes people think they are a suicide free paradise. People still kill themselves in Japan, at over double the US rate, they just find other ways of doing it.

Good catch...

I wonder what the suicide rate in japan is by Katana Sword?!?!?!?!?!?

Right, you see these guys seem to think it will knock us down a peg or something since they cant have it, neither should we types. Stay in your country you feel so safe in and dont even look in our direction is the best thing for you to do. Its not like your worried about my safety really, you just dont want us to have something you cant and never had. Biased websites of coarse can show how bad anything can be, there are no limits what you can prove if you pick the right set of numbers and leave others out of the equation.

You want to look at stats, take the cars away as they kill more people than guns ever thought about killing. Oh right you guys pretty much gave that up as well.

The bottom line is, it will not happen in my lifetime for sure, the people will have to want to give them up for this to happen and for those that want to, go for it, its your right to choose at least in my country it is. Enjoy your socialist controlled life, but at least your safe, or thats what they tell you anyways. Ill stick with my freedom and take my chances thanks.

Originally posted by doobydoll
Hmmm, and here's me thinking we were having a mature discussion here.

I prefer to stay here, believe me, .....
www.gun-control-network.org...
www.guardian.co.uk...

No, actually I don't feel that you were ever having a mature discussion. I see your posts as coming from an uninformed scared person who has a totally different view of the society you want to live in compared to the target group you are trying to push your will on.

That's not very mature.

If we reorganize the list based upon the real suicide rate, then it will look a bit different.

Japan 23.8
Switzerland 18
Finland 17.6
France 16.2
USA 11.8
Canada 11.3
Australia 9.7
UK 6.9
Italy 6.3

Looks a bit different doesn’t it?

Don’t even get me started on the homicide rate. There is 100+ countries that far exceed the US homicide rate. And most of those countries have strict gun control.

And something occurred to me while I was looking up the suicide statistics. If a country was able to pass enough laws that they was able to eliminate any means for it’s citizens to kill themselves……. It would be a disturbing country to live in.

To know that a sizable portion of your neighbors and fellow countrymen are just going about their daily life because they are unable to kill themselves.

It would be unnerving to say the least

Im against banning semi automatic weapons.

However, I don't want to get involved in the whole debate of whether the US is crazy to allow guns to be in the possession of its citizens. There are many good reasons the US has such a large part of its culture revolving around guns. All that aside heres what I wanted to share.

Having had the opportunity to travel around the world I've met quite a few europeans. We make friends and when they visit the states they often visit me too. So I have a good amount of europeans hanging out with me sometimes. I've taken at least 2/3rds of the shooting. Its on all of their to do lists while hanging out with me.

So I take them out, they shoot. They have a great time. they loose their fear of guns, and even go home telling their friends how much fun it was to go shooting. THe general feelings expressed afterwards is that they have been missing out. They also remark that at first when we drive up to the range they are shocked at the amount and level of weaponry these civilians are bringing out for some sunday fun. By the time they leave they are shocked that every single person they met there was a normal sane person and that even the kids were comfortable around and shooting firearms. they left feeling that firearm possession in the US is not that big a deal.

So come visit the states. experience some of the gun communities hospitality. Believe me they can be a pretty friendly bunch. You might even leave experiencing a traditional american BBQ too. Guns and BBQs tend to go well together.

THe whole point is that the europeans seem to be afraid of guns. Get a little familiar with guns and you will loose the fear and your perspectives will have changed.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


Star. I can't recall ever taking a European shooting, but I have heard stories similar to yours repeatedly.

I have take Californians's shooting, and the result is usually the same. I have heard it is the same for New Yorkers and Chicagoan's too

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
Don’t even get me started on the homicide rate. There is 100+ countries that far exceed the US homicide rate. And most of those countries have strict gun control.

For the heck of it... here is a list of the countries...

 Honduras 91.6
 El Salvador 69.2
 Côte d'Ivoire 56.9
 Jamaica 52.2
 Venezuela 45.1
 Belize 41.4
 U.S. Virgin Islands 39.2
 Guatemala 38.5
 Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2
 Zambia 38
 Uganda 36.3
 Malawi 36
 Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
 Lesotho 35.2
 Colombia 33.4
 South Africa 31.8
 Congo 30.8
 Central African Republic 29.3
 Bahamas 27.4
 Puerto Rico 26.2
 Saint Lucia 25.2
 Dominican Republic 25
 Tanzania 24.5
 Sudan 24.2
 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
 Mexico 22.7
 Guinea 22.5
 Ethiopia 22.5
 Dominica 22.1
 Burundi 21.7
 Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
 Panama 21.6
 Brazil 21
 Equatorial Guinea 20.7
 Guinea-Bissau 20.2
 Kyrgyzstan 20.1
 Kenya 20.1
 Cameroon 19.7
 Montserrat 19.7
 Greenland 19.2
 Angola 19
 Guyana 18.6
 Burkina Faso 18
 Eritrea 17.8
 Namibia 17.2
 Rwanda 17.1
 Chad 15.8
 Ghana 15.7
 North Korea 15.2
 Ecuador 15.2
 Benin 15.1
 Sierra Leone 14.9
 Mauritania 14.7
 Botswana 14.5
 Zimbabwe 14.3
 Gabon 13.8
 Nicaragua 13.6
 French Guiana 13.3
 Papua New Guinea 13
 Swaziland 12.9
 Bermuda 12.3
 Comoros 12.2
 Nigeria 12.2
 Cape Verde 11.6
 Grenada 11.5
 Paraguay 11.5
 Barbados 11.3
 Costa Rica 11.3
 Togo 10.9
 Gambia 10.8
 Peru 10.3
 Myanmar 10.2
 Russia 10.2
 Liberia 10.1
 Nauru 9.8
 Bolivia 8.9
 Kazakhstan 8.8
 Mozambique 8.8
 Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
 Senegal 8.7
 Mongolia 8.7
 British Virgin Islands 8.6
 Cayman Islands 8.4
 Seychelles 8.3
 Madagascar 8.1
 Indonesia 8.1
 Mali 8
 Pakistan 7.8
 Moldova 7.5
 Kiribati 7.3
 Guadeloupe 7
 Timor-Leste 6.9
 Haiti 6.9
 Anguilla 6.8
 Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
 Lithuania 6.6
 Uruguay 5.9
 Philippines 5.4
 Ukraine 5.2
 Estonia 5.2
 Cuba 5
 Belarus 4.9
 Thailand 4.8
 Suriname 4.6
 Laos 4.6
 Georgia 4.3
 Martinique 4.2
 Yemen 4.2
 Turkmenistan 4.2
 United States 4.2

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by doobydoll
Hmmm, and here's me thinking we were having a mature discussion here.

I prefer to stay here, believe me, .....
www.gun-control-network.org...
www.guardian.co.uk...

No, actually I don't feel that you were ever having a mature discussion. I see your posts as coming from an uninformed scared person who has a totally different view of the society you want to live in compared to the target group you are trying to push your will on.

That's not very mature.

Haha, and 'scaredy-cat' is mature?

I'm not trying to push my will on anyone lol.

My point of view comes from living in a country where the risk of being shot by a criminal or cop (be it accidental or intentional), is minimal to non-existent. Why do you think that is? In my opinion it is because our gun laws are so rigid.

How about banning the US governments level 4 biological weapons that are being stupidly stored in laval 2 labs?

How about banning the US governments cluster bombs?

How about banning the US governments uranium projectiles that have polluted Iraq for the next 4.5 BILLION YEARS?!

Originally posted by gavlar1974
Im uk citizen and i own nothing more than a high powered Airgun.Yes because in UK you have to go to a head shrink just for .22 rifle.Me personally i just think i could defend my house from a robber with it no need for gun ownership in any country we have to think of our kids and famlies across the world.Time for a worldwide ban and arms destruction.Yeah fat chance of that happening but in UK its happened. And yeah we have an underground trade and blank weapons drilled out to fire live ammo..thoughts peeps..

edit on 9-8-2012 by gavlar1974 because: Spelling mistakes ha ha

OP.. I hadn't read the thread here yet. I don't know if your stand is making you a hero or a heretic. Depends on the time of day being posted for which side of the Atlantic is awake many times, it seems. I want to add my opinion though and this comes with my late stepfather-in-law having come here from Scotland just a couple years ago. I got to live with the culture shock of a man from a land of NO guns..even cops don't carry them..to our house, where..Lets say the neighborhood likely wouldn't be wanting for tools needed in defense of the area. lol.....


You point out you could defend your home from a robber, and you're probably right. If you're a strong fellow and determined against someone who isn't strong or just lacks have the guts they thought they had, a homeowner could handle that fine and I agree with you, in England. In the United States, it's 50/50 or better odds the burglar of an occupied residence is not only armed, but already decided how you'll be handled if you wake up or discover them. They didn't ask you, of course....and you won't have anything to say about it. You sure won't like it, I have no doubt there.

You'll have no say because they are armed, you are not and in America, that is a very likely state of affairs. The stats indicate a current 'best guess' of 270 million firearms distributed among 120 million Americans. Government of all kinds and all levels adds another 4 million, give or take.... Banning or outlawing will simply NEVER happen in our lifetimes, and for America, it's really getting to be a dead horse.

In a land like England or MOST of the worst, for that matter, where gun ownership has never been known in modern times as a privileged, let alone a right, the gun banning debate is a radically different thing and seems logical beyond question. In a land like ours where a time WITHOUT common and wide gun ownership has simply never existed at all, the debate is night and day different. There really..isn't much debate.