Gay Marriage and Raising Children: The Elephant in the Room

Listen....

First, if you don't have kids, you probably shouldn't be posting on their behalf. What basis in reality do you really have?

Second, I can cite way more examples of s****y heterosexual parents than gay parents. All I have to do is check cnn.com to find a new case of "traditional" parenting gone awry. EVERY DAY.

Third, there are better controls in place if you're a same sex couple wanting to raise a child vs. a straight couple. Pardon my french but people are "up your ass" if you try a same sex adoption or surrogacy. Unlike all of the "whoops! I'm pregnant!" straight people out there. Straight people get to ruin someone's life without impunity.

Bottom line is: any asshole can have a baby - if they have the right equipment. At least gay people are subjected to a screening process. Which makes them better parents.

(I'm a straight person and I approved this message.)

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I'm sorry, but I don't believe I stated anything about homosexuals wanting to bring in rights for pedophiles. That would be twisting of my words, like if I was to say that you are racist because you used the analogy of an interracial relationship, see how that works?

What I have stated is that by being homosexual they can not naturally conceive children. It's a pretty simple fact that everyone seems to want to ignore. No matter how you spin it or how often you accuse me of saying things that I have not, two men can not procreate, neither can two women.

I don't have to agree with their way of life either, just as they don't have to agree with mine.

reply to post by otherpotato


Very good points

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe I stated anything about homosexuals wanting to bring in rights for pedophiles. That would be twisting of my words, like if I was to say that you are racist because you used the analogy of an interracial relationship, see how that works?

What I have stated is that by being homosexual they can not naturally conceive children. It's a pretty simple fact that everyone seems to want to ignore. No matter how you spin it or how often you accuse me of saying things that I have not, two men can not procreate, neither can two women.

I don't have to agree with their way of life either, just as they don't have to agree with mine.

I don't think anyone is really 'ignoring the 'simple fact' that gays can't physically 'naturally conceive' children.

I think the problem is more than likely that some of you out there
are really Obsessed with this tidbit of information.

We got that.

Originally posted by FranciPants1228

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by FranciPants1228

 

A psychological illness yes, but they are born that way. Does this mean that anyone born with a difference in brain chemistry has a psychological illness? You can see where I'm going with this right?

You can't compare pedophiles to gays. Its ridiculous. One is about about being violated againt your will and one is consentual.

Where did I compare them when making this statement? I'm talking about brain chemistry and pschiological illness.There are many types of illness, I don't compare any of them to being pedophiles.

Remember that I said my uncle is gay? Raised two kids? He used to babysit me, change my nappies. I love him! I don't compare him to a pedophile. The thing is, he had children within a heterosexual relationship, a situation condusive to procreation.

Satanism - Key rule is "Do as thou wilt"
Christianity - "has rules"

Which closer describes a better way to raise your kids and within what constructs?

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe I stated anything about homosexuals wanting to bring in rights for pedophiles. That would be twisting of my words

Agree to disagree. You gave one analogy for your point and it was child molesters. I don't feel I am twisting.

What I have stated is that by being homosexual they can not naturally conceive children. It's a pretty simple fact that everyone seems to want to ignore.

I am not ignoring it. I have already even given thoughts on it in this very thread. In fact I don't think it's generally ignored at all...

o matter how you spin it or how often you accuse me of saying things that I have not, two men can not procreate, neither can two women.

But they can still have biological children through technology.
If you considering it 'spinning' that's you spinning the facts.

I don't have to agree with their way of life either

Well yeah I imagine that's the underlying point behind someone being against their right to parent.

just as they don't have to agree with mine.

You might be surprised then to discover the LGBT movement isn't going after heterosexuality.

reply to post by DaesDaemar


It's also a pretty simple fact that many straight people cannot conceive children on their own. Should they be allowed to take advantage of science to procreate? And if they can why should that stop anyone else?

Originally posted by r2d246
Satanism - Key rule is "Do as thou wilt"
Christianity - "has rules"

Which closer describes a better way to raise your kids and within what constructs?

What are you smoking?

And can I have some?

When did satanism enter the room? Blaming satan = convenient excuse to not think. But if that's what you need...

reply to post by r2d246


Explanation: The former quote is better ... here quoted in full + more ...

Aleister Crowley [wikiquote.org]

I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union.
I:29

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I:40 This famous statement derives from several historic precedents, including that of François Rabelais in describing the rule of his Abbey of Thélème in Gargantua and Pantagruel: Fait ce que vouldras (Do what thou wilt), which was later used by the Hellfire Club established by Sir Francis Dashwood. It is also similar to the pagan proverb: An ye harm none, do what thou wilt; but the oldest known statement of a similar assertion is that of St. Augustine of Hippo: Love, and do what thou wilt.

Love is the law, love under will.
I:57

Cherry picking to the extent it becomes out of context is probably poor form.

As for Christianity ... they need to go back and reread the torah to know that all the New Testament is a falsehood.

Have All 3 Abrahamic Faiths Conspired to Defraud the Torah? (by OmegaLogos posted on 11-1-2009 @ 10:46 PM) [ATS]

Primary Proof for the OP's Primary Argument: Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Secondary Proof for the OP's Primary Argument: Deut 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Personal Disclosure: I am a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I endorse homosexuality between consenting adults. I am sexual and I don't need any prefix or suffix added to that definition ok.

reply to post by DaesDaemar


But there are lots of straight couples who can't conceive either. Nature told them they cannot be parents yet we have science to help them, despite nature's verdict. Are you on the side of nature or science? One could argue that straight couples who can't conceive have been barred from procreation as well. What makes them so special that they should bend the rules?

reply to post by otherpotato


And if science can find a way to make sure you don't have gay children, are you then still on the side of science? It's a never ending circle.

I'll start fighting "homophobia" when I can disagree with homosexuality, disapprove of sodomy and not have them use the word "hate" at me. Disagreeing does not mean hate. Somehow they don't get that. But you can REALLY demonize someone when you say they hate if you simpley disagree.

Perhaps they need to work on their Christianphobia and have tolerance to others beliefs.

What a world we now live in. Traditional families now have to defend themselves, and we have a president who has put his stamp of approval on sodomy.

My youth pastor told me 33 years ago that Christians would be persecuted in this country. Darned if he wasn't right. Just watch the news.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I like how you skipped over the bit about your racist analogy

I'll just agree to disagree. That's the great thing about humanity, we all have opinions.

reply to post by DaesDaemar


I made no racist analogy.

I skipped because it didn't make sense. You skipped multiple things anyways so I don't see what your driving at.

Anyways. This is obviously going no where.

Originally posted by davjan4
Traditional families now have to defend themselves,

HA HA HA HA HA HA

That is so stupid. There is zero reason for Traditional Family to defend themselves. What exactly are they defending themselves against"

Who exactly is the opposing force of Traditional Family that they feel so threatened?

Originally posted by FranciPants1228

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by FranciPants1228

 

A psychological illness yes, but they are born that way. Does this mean that anyone born with a difference in brain chemistry has a psychological illness? You can see where I'm going with this right?

You can't compare pedophiles to gays. Its ridiculous. One is about about being violated againt your will and one is consentual.

True, but there are homosexual pedophiles, too. Grown men that go after little boys are, by definition, homosexual. No, not any worse than any other pedophile, but they exist as well.

However, if one believes that homosexuality is a mental problem, and that pedophilia is also a mental problem, then they might compare them, in that regard. One would not have a victim, and the other would, but they could be compared on a mental basis.

As for brain chemistry, if a person is a psychopath because of brain differences (though there isn't solid proof one way or the other yet on that issue, and yeah, I have had college study on that), does that mean the person isn't still doing something wrong? No, not calling homosexuals psychopaths, either. Just saying that brain issues don't necessarily mean heredity, or normal.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Grown men that go after little boys are, by definition, homosexual.

Grown men that go after little girls are, by definition, heterosexual.

I take offense to both those statements. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation in of itself isn't it

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by FranciPants1228

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
reply to post by FranciPants1228

 

A psychological illness yes, but they are born that way. Does this mean that anyone born with a difference in brain chemistry has a psychological illness? You can see where I'm going with this right?

You can't compare pedophiles to gays. Its ridiculous. One is about about being violated againt your will and one is consentual.

True, but there are homosexual pedophiles, too. Grown men that go after little boys are, by definition, homosexual. No, not any worse than any other pedophile, but they exist as well.

However, if one believes that homosexuality is a mental problem, and that pedophilia is also a mental problem, then they might compare them, in that regard. One would not have a victim, and the other would, but they could be compared on a mental basis.

As for brain chemistry, if a person is a psychopath because of brain differences (though there isn't solid proof one way or the other yet on that issue, and yeah, I have had college study on that), does that mean the person isn't still doing something wrong? No, not calling homosexuals psychopaths, either. Just saying that brain issues don't necessarily mean heredity, or normal.

Homosexuality and Pedophilia are two completely different things. Apples & Oranges.


FailedProphet:

My point is this: To date, most if not all serious discussion of gay marriage has revolved around the rights of gay people. There has been very little talk about how it might impact children. It may turn out that it would not impact them at all. But before we go tinkering with the fundamental structure of the family, its a question that needs to be asked, and a debate that needs to be had. The glaring silence on this issue is the proverbial "elephant in the room."

There are millions of criminals out there who come from a family of both a Mother and a Father. Doesn't really seem like if you have parents who are of opposite genders are much better at raising kids then parents who are same gender.

Either way what it all comes down to is Nature & Nurture. Sometimes it won't matter if the kid had a Mother and a Father or Two Fathers, he'll still grow up to be a murderer.

reply to post by FailedProphet


With the bang-up job the heterosexual parents have done raising their kids over the past couple of generations, we should pass a law insisting that only gays should raise kids.

You know the kids I'm talking about. Their the kids who engage in flash mobs, terrorizing innocent people, the ones who drop out of school, are iliterate, goin gangs, get pregnant when they're teen agers, take naked photos and videos of themselves and shoot them out on the internet. Those fantastic contributions to society raised in all of these wonderful, one man\one woman families some folks seem obsessed in celebrating. If these folks are the "bed rock" of society, it's beyond time to be frightened because they're just making more of the same.