Gay Marriage and Raising Children: The Elephant in the Room

reply to post by Sinny

Scary strange people!
aha.

Scary and strange in this context is probably not a sound argument for why transgenders shouldn't be parents

and in regards to the child and the hetro couple, if it was born to them, its got no choice, if it was test tube, or adopted, it should have a choice

Maybe you meant nothing by it but......

Referring to babies as "its" in a thread about parenting is unsettling

I really am trying to understand here. I am. But I don't. Why is it not important for a biological baby/child to have a choice but it is for the baby/child of adoption, surrogate?? And is this all sexual orientations? Is this concern for heterosexual adoption as well?...

All the children my family adopted came from situations that were horrible for them. The idea of choosing the family wasn't on their mind...they were happy to be in a good family. *although technically they did consent as we were not able to adopt until many years and were older*

As for the idea of 5 year olds choosing this. I don't think I undermine kids but wow I think you are granting them some impressive intellectual faculty!

Sometimes the parents know best, make the decisions for them, and that's just a part of being a parent.

Again I am interested more in your position but I can't help but feel underlying this isn't a concern about what the child wants but the belief LGBT are not fit for parenting. Apologies if I am off mark.

Originally posted by pajoly
OP, your parents (your heterosexual parents) failed you. They raise you as the most dangerous of person -- a soft bigot with a moral superiority complex inherent in an evangelical.

No matter how many disclaimers, no matter how carefully I attempt to set up a nuanced question, there is always one (or more likely, a dozen) of these types in every thread on this topic. So I'm a "soft bigot" merely for asking questions? Nowhere have I said "gays should not be parents." I also explicitly stated I'm not at all religious. Nevertheless merely for daring to raise these questions I'm suddenly a "soft bigot" and an "evangelical." I'm not even going to touch the disgusting comments about my parents. Shame on you.

Let's assume (inaccuraraty) for the sake of argument that everything you have said about me is true. Heck, throw in "closeted self-hating gay" for chuckles (I notice you missed that one in your straw-man ad hom parade). Even if all that is true about me personally, how does tha change the questions I raised? Those questions remain. Bullying by name-calling doesn't make them evaporate magically.

If you can only respond to probing inquiry with hysteria and name-calling, you do your cause far more harm than good.

This is just the atypical circle jerking Nature vs. Nurture thread. Not even worth discussing because the only people who are going to see eye to eye are those who already agree with eachother. So that being said. I find no sufficient reason to grace this thread with my presence other than to say. Not taking the bait.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


It seems to me like there is at least some good discussion and information in this thread. With your attitude I agree it's probably best not to partake

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
This is just the atypical circle jerking Nature vs. Nurture thread. Not even worth discussing because the only people who are going to see eye to eye are those who already agree with eachother. So that being said. I find no sufficient reason to grace this thread with my presence other than to say. Not taking the

bait.

And yet here you are...

This question is of crucial import for many children and deserves to be asked. It's not flame bait at all. On the contrary, flames are what I desperately want to avoid. Nuance is what I'm reaching for. Nuance and answers, not name-calling and hysteria.

A Christian could never author this thread as they would be crucified by the supporters of homosexuality.

It is a concern, the kids will be emotionally brutalised in social circles in most cases.
The whole argument is based on the selfishness of people.

Also, what is up with the mother ALWAYS getting custody in divorce cases? Isn't this sexist?

reply to post by darkbake


Sexist indeed, society claims to have equality between the sexes what a joke, but this will pass, not because of reason though it's all about money.

Kids come first ? do they hell just follow the money.

reply to post by borntowatch

It is a concern, the kids will be emotionally brutalised in social circles in most cases.

Only if people think that way,
Remember the good old days when you could burn a Negro for so much as looking at a white woman ?

Originally posted by borntowatch
A Christian could never author this thread as they would be crucified by the supporters of homosexuality.

It is a concern, the kids will be emotionally brutalised in social circles in most cases. (like christian bull#)
The whole argument is based on the selfishness of people.

edit on 9-8-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

Or the stupidity and ignorance of the wierd religious folk?

It is a sensitive subject...but why? I don't see anything wrong with any of it.

I have lots of gay friends. They are awesome...just like my straight friends.

My ex-husband is gay and we have a son together. He is the best Father I have ever known. He loves our son more than life itself and his son loves him just as much. Our son always comes first no matter what. I am remarried and my ex-husband and my husband get along great and are friends. My ex has a partner also. So my Son has has 2 step Dads. So what. He is loved.

We split up when my Son was very young and it was never really talked about with him because it was all he ever knew. Its not like we sat and had a "Daddy is gay" talk. He is 10 years old and actually just recently asked my ex point blank "are you gay?" Of course my ex said "yes" and my Son just looked at him and said "I love you" and that was it. He has asked a few questions since but nothing of substantial. He has told me that he loves his Daddy even more for telling him the truth.

My Son is an awesome little boy. He is well rounded, does great in school and has the biggest heart. I think he is who he is because he is loved and raised by a group of wonderful people who love him very much...nuff said

Originally posted by ChristianJihad
reply to post by borntowatch

 

It is a concern, the kids will be emotionally brutalised in social circles in most cases.

Only if people think that way,
Remember the good old days when you could burn a Negro for so much as looking at a white woman ?

You are absolutely right, and the argument so far has centred on Christians. Its not just Christians with problems.

As a non christian kid growing up, if there was a student in school who had gay parents, I would have been a real tormentor of that child, as would all my friends.
Nothing to do with religion.
Look at the post 1 above, its pure hate. Same as that used on gays, just here used at Christians.
You are all no better, just a heard mentality.

Originally posted by borntowatch

It is a concern, the kids will be emotionally brutalised in social circles in most cases.

And why would they be emotional brutalized in society? Where does that come from according to your view?

The whole argument is based on the selfishness of people

That's a very bold and narrow belief. Care to present your argument?

My girlfriend and soon to be fiance comes from a gay family. She was even done in vitro, her mother is nothing short of wonderful as well as her partner. She is well adjusted, kind, highly intelligent and loves the c*ck.

The sex of parents means nothing, a intelligent, well adjusted, and kind parent will give these things to their child irrespective of the partnership they are in. I know for certain that it also has no bearing on the sexuality that child develops when they have a good parent.

Instead of finding new ways to discriminate and hate perhaps the populous at large should ask itself why so many of them are absolute crap at parenting and how the majority and not the exception created the society they so loathe.

That would require introspection and a conscience unfortunately, and if America has taught me anything it's that most people only have souls when you attach fairy tales and rewards to it. Even then the ones that sold out still feel free to make life living hell for those they deride.

Originally posted by LaughingatHumanity
My girlfriend and soon to be fiance comes from a gay family. She was even done in vitro, her mother is nothing short of wonderful as well as her partner. She is well adjusted, kind, highly intelligent and loves the c*ck.

The sex of parents means nothing, a intelligent, well adjusted, and kind parent will give these things to their child irrespective of the partnership they are in. I know for certain that it also has no bearing on the sexuality that child develops when they have a good parent.

Instead of finding new ways to discriminate and hate perhaps the populous at large should ask itself why so many of them are absolute crap at parenting and how the majority and not the exception created the society they so loathe.

That would require introspection and a conscience unfortunately, and if America has taught me anything it's that most people only have souls when you attach fairy tales and rewards to it. Even then the ones that sold out still feel free to make life living hell for those they deride.

Exactly! The sex of the parents does not mean anything. Your girlfriend came from a loving home and it shows. These people that think growing up in a home with same sex parents will somehow hurt the children is NUTS!!! Besides, anyone can screw up a child whether they are gay or straight. To think otherwise is just insane.

Also, on the subject of the sex of the parents not meaning anything...I have a friend that has straight parents and he has 3 brothers and 1 sister and every single one of them are gay....go figure. It is what it is.

I don't get the point of this thread.

Is it saying that single mothers shouldn't be able to raise kids?

I'll just state my opinion. I don't think homosexuals should be allowed to raise children while in a homosexual relationship. By being in a homosexual relationship, they can not naturally conceive children. Now, I understand that it isn't a choice to be gay, they are born that way. Doesn't this mean that they are born to not procreate? Yes, we have the means for them to have children these days, women can use IVF but men have no way of doing this without a woman carrying the child, but does that mean that they should?

Now, before everyone labels me as hating gays, my uncle is gay and I love him the same as I did before he 'came out', but I don't agree with his way of life which he accepts as my right to an opinion. He has two children from a previous marriage to a woman and those children were teens when they found out their father was gay. They handled it very well, and have no ill feelings toward their father though they also do not agree with his way of life.

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
I'll just state my opinion. I don't think homosexuals should be allowed to raise children while in a homosexual relationship. By being in a homosexual relationship, they can not naturally conceive children. Now, I understand that it isn't a choice to be gay, they are born that way. Doesn't this mean that they are born to not procreate? Yes, we have the means for them to have children these days, women can use IVF but men have no way of doing this without a woman carrying the child, but does that mean that they should?

Now, before everyone labels me as hating gays, my uncle is gay and I love him the same as I did before he 'came out', but I don't agree with his way of life which he accepts as my right to an opinion. He has two children from a previous marriage to a woman and those children were teens when they found out their father was gay. They handled it very well, and have no ill feelings toward their father though they also do not agree with his way of life.

If straight people can rely on a turkey baster and in vitro as well as a surrogate then gay people can as well.

Originally posted by LaughingatHumanity

Originally posted by DaesDaemar
I'll just state my opinion. I don't think homosexuals should be allowed to raise children while in a homosexual relationship. By being in a homosexual relationship, they can not naturally conceive children. Now, I understand that it isn't a choice to be gay, they are born that way. Doesn't this mean that they are born to not procreate? Yes, we have the means for them to have children these days, women can use IVF but men have no way of doing this without a woman carrying the child, but does that mean that they should?

Now, before everyone labels me as hating gays, my uncle is gay and I love him the same as I did before he 'came out', but I don't agree with his way of life which he accepts as my right to an opinion. He has two children from a previous marriage to a woman and those children were teens when they found out their father was gay. They handled it very well, and have no ill feelings toward their father though they also do not agree with his way of life.

If straight people can rely on a turkey baster and in vitro as well as a surrogate then gay people can as well.

I was thinking the same thing. So, that is like saying that if a woman is not able to naturally conceive then that means that she should not be allowed to try other ways to have a child?

reply to post by FranciPants1228


Just my opinion

The way I see it is that if that woman is in a heterosexual relationship, then yes, the technology should be available to them as they are in a relationship that lends itself to procreation, homosexuals are not. That is fact however you want to spin it.

If it is about everyone having the right to children, and I know this is a bad analogy but it makes the point, then what about child molesters? They are also born that way if we are to believe science, should they also be allowed to have children? Once we become tolerant to one thing, we open ourselves to ever increasing levels of tolerance. Just a thought...

reply to post by DaesDaemar


Ignoring the IVF aspect for now, why do you think a same-sex couple should not be allowed to adopt? We have a surplus of orphans/abandoned children/wards of the state/etc. out there. Do you really think these children are better off moving from foster home to foster home? Or worse, living in a group home? The studies show that same-sex couples are just as capable of raising mentally, physically, and socially healthy children as different-sex couples. So why shouldn't they be allowed to adopt children whose, in most cases, only alternative is to be thrust into environments that have been shown to hinder their development?