Shocking! When States Expand Their Medicare Coverage, Less People Die

There are groups of doctors that support a single payer system.

Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP), is an advocacy organization of some 18,000 American physicians, medical students, and health professionals founded by Quentin Young who support a single-payer system of national health insurance

The group is best known for its influential proposals for national health insurance, which have been published in the New England Journal of Medicine[1] and the Journal of the American Medical Association[2].

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

Dear Blackmarketeer,

We seem to keep running into each other, I like that. Thanks for commenting.

It's the "they'll ration health care" scare tactic at work. Did they ration auto insurance when that became mandatory?

Good eyes! That's exactly my point. As you make clear, auto insurance wasn't rationed. How could it be? All you need for that is a pen and some forms. But, "They'll ration health care" is the scary thing. Someone has to provide the care, and each provider has a certain limit on the number of patients he or she can work with, they have to sleep sometime.

Here, consider the baby boom generation, they're a big group of people. They're retiring, getting older and will make more visits to the doctor, increasing the demand for care. But, remember, there are large number of doctors who also come from the baby boom generation. They'll be retiring as well, thereby reducing the supply. Further reducing the supply are the number of doctors leaving because they don't want to deal with the ever increasing requirements for paperwork and the multiplying regulations. Economics tells us that in a case like that you can achieve equilibrium by raising the price or instituting rationing.

We're trying to increase the supply of doctors, but I've been told it takes 10 years plus to create a competent one. The ACA with it's cuts in medicare spending will reduce the money sent to medical schools by $1 billion over the next ten years.

We're also trying to reduce the demand for doctors by using nurses and preventive medicine. It will help, but enough?

Hey, I'm not trying to go after either candidate, or party, or really attack anything. My worry is that some might believe that if everyone gets cheap government health insurance, we will have taken care of our health care problems. I think there's a lot more to it than that.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

Good eyes! That's exactly my point. As you make clear, auto insurance wasn't rationed. How could it be? All you need for that is a pen and some forms. But, "They'll ration health care" is the scary thing. Someone has to provide the care, and each provider has a certain limit on the number of patients he or she can work with, they have to sleep sometime.

If i can interject in your all's convo - auto insurance is a lot like health care insurance. It requires a bond and funds, and a system of administration. obamocare is not provide health care itself, it's providing health care insurance.

You can't ration insurance, like you say. When they pass mandatory auto insurance, did auto repair get rationed? See? That didn't happen. So when they pass universal health care insurance, will they ration health care? I don't think so. with increase demand come increase supply.

reply to post by RancorXXX

Dear RancorXXX,

It will always be a pleasure to have you come in and discuss.

If i can interject in your all's convo - auto insurance is a lot like health care insurance. It requires a bond and funds, and a system of administration. obamocare is not provide health care itself, it's providing health care insurance.

You can't ration insurance, like you say.

I'm absolutely with you here, no problem at all.

So when they pass universal health care insurance, will they ration health care? I don't think so. with increase demand come increase supply.

You may be right, but I'm not as confident as you are. We've had a little discussion on that point on the previous page. Supply can be brought up by enrolling more doctors and using nurses.

But there are downward pressures as well. It takes at least ten years to train a doctor, as opposed to an auto mechanic. Claasroom space and instructors are very limited. Many doctors are retiring, and many see it as a less desirable career due to government regulations, forms, and limits on doctor compensation.

Having long wait times to see a doctor is a form of rationing. They have that in Canada, I expect they'll have it here. I just hope it isn't severe. (And I don't even want to get into the government board that will decide which procedures will be paid for based on economic and medical efficiency, not what your doctor or you wants.)

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Well according to you either way there is going to be a doctor shortage so what would it matter?

reply to post by RealSpoke

Dear RealSpoke,

Thank you, that's a good point.

It seems that we have some control over the size of the shortage. Just to take a current example, the drought is hitting the US in a really big way. Corn crops are being destroyed left and right, food is becoming more scarce and expensive. Other countries are worried that we won't be able to ship them enough food. In the middle of this, the government is still insisting that 40% of the corn crop be used to make ethanol for our vehicles.

For the doctors' situation, I'd like to see movement on three fronts. 1) Expand the capacity of medical colleges, and make med school less expensive and more attractive. 2) Retain existing doctors by make the practice more enjoyable. A frequent complaint is government and insurance company red tape and regulations. 3) Reduce the demand on doctors' services. We know about some people using the emergency room for a cold. We also know that doctors over-test, and practice defensive medicine, so that they can defend themselves if they get sued.

How we do all those things would open an intense debate. But I think progress in those areas would reduce the size of the shortage.

With respect,
Charles1952