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A Question For Liberal Progressives Regarding Social Security.... Please Respond

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posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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I am against it as many know

Too many liberals have been brainwashed into thinking that it's not only okay to have social security but also allowing a corrupt entity to redistribute.

And now guess what the update is:


Social Security Now Takes More Than it Gives


Social Security is an undervalued asset. Spouses benefit even if they never worked for pay

But it is now official: Social Security is a lousy investment for the average worker. People retiring today will be among the first generation of workers to pay more in Social Security taxes than they receive in benefits over the course of their lives

moneyland.time.com...

What does this mean?
It means if you are for social security you basically do not like your future unborn grandkids and have some form of animosity towards them.
I don't know why you would dislike them as they aren't born yet but they are getting a very bad deal due to today's people having a horrible understanding of basic arithmetic.

Yes I know i'm being a little harsh but aren't you being harsher on the future?




posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I was just watching about this on FSTV and reading about it in various articles throughout the last few days.

I have to say.... I do not appreciate this in any way.

I think I identify with Progressives, but not on everything. It's easier than saying I'm a Conservative or Liberal. That being said.....

I loathe the idea of Social Security in it's current capacity. It was a good deal, now it's beyond perverted. So what do we do? Do we demand it's deletion? This would leave the elderly without a lifeline.... I would do what I could to take care of mine, but could everybody? We owe them our lives and our respect... How can that be voided because of political interference?

Nothing is as simple as we would like it to be. Those who came before us are not a drain on society...

Hope i didn't miss the point.



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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A similar thread was posted yesterday, and my comment is the same....

I can tell you for sure that I have paid way more into Social Security than I will ever get out!
Social Security is a TAX, just like OBAMACARE is.

Freedom and choice are actually just an illusion.
The real truth is that we are a Communist nation now.

America has died.



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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Everyone knows how agianst SS I am seriously pay for 40 years have to wait for them to "give your money" back to you.

Then only collect the stipend for around 10 years.

The simple fact is Ira's pay more but those same liberal progressives put contribution limits on them they are the same ones who came up wth the death tax etc.

The same people who created the Federal Reserve who sets the rates for every financial investment vehicle in this country to where a savings account and a money market accounts pays squat.

And the examples can endlessly go on.

Why the pretense for a program that does nothing to lift people out of poverty considering for millions of Americans the average SS check is $1000 a month.

IItdoesn't keep up with inflation, that money is worth less by the time you start collecting and the cost of living and food ,and gas ,and real estate and everything else a person needs to live.

For some reason that many know is that Wall street is evil and yet Wall Street is what millions of Americans used to get out of middle class and have a higher standard of living that SS will never give them.

The only thing i can come up with is power and control liberal progressive can't stand anyone who doesn't need them someone where they can hold social programs over their heads for their votes to keep them in power.

That is what I think
edit on 8-8-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



What does this mean?
It means if you are for social security you basically do not like your future unborn grandkids and have some form of animosity towards them.


Really...is that what it means???

Well with such a rational and logical starting point like that...how can we not have a meaningful discussion of the topic



Here is an outlandish idea...i don't pay into Social Security with the thoughts that I am making an invest in myself and my future...I pay into it thinking I'm making an investment into my SOCIETY. Call me crazy...but I kind of like being able to walk down the street and not see the elderly dying on the side of the road.

Here is your problem...you are selfish...and I feel sorry for your future children and grandchildren...because they are going to have a selfish parent that is only concerned about what is in it for themselves.




posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Here is an outlandish idea...i don't pay into Social Security with the thoughts that I am making an invest in myself and my future...I pay into it thinking I'm making an investment into my SOCIETY. .

How does math care what you are thinking?


Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Call me crazy...but I kind of like being able to walk down the street and not see the elderly dying on the side of the road.

Nobody likes seeing that
It doesn't mean you find an impractical way of "supporting" them
Elderly people are dying today

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Here is your problem...you are selfish...and I feel sorry for your future children and grandchildren...because they are going to have a selfish parent that is only concerned about what is in it for themselves.

Having an elementary understanding of arithmetic is not being selfish, it's being realistic
You can live in dreamland all you want while judging others, but it's not helping your case



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



Having an elementary understanding of arithmetic is not being selfish, it's being realistic
You can live in dreamland all you want while judging others, but it's not helping your case


Oh...I love Math.

Now...show me the Math that shows you aren't being selfish...I'll wait.



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Check the link in the OP

i'm here to help anytime


Oh ya there's not only math there's also basic logic
Which is don't let the murderous hungry wolf guard the henhouse



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


You are obviously inexperienced in these matters....



Here is an outlandish idea...i don't pay into Social Security with the thoughts that I am making an invest in myself and my future...I pay into it thinking I'm making an investment into my SOCIETY. Call me crazy...but I kind of like being able to walk down the street and not see the elderly dying on the side of the road.


Wake up dude! They aren't walking down the street because they can't afford shoes! Social Security doesn't hardly even pay enough for food, much less rent, or transportation.



Here is your problem...you are selfish...and I feel sorry for your future children and grandchildren...because they are going to have a selfish parent that is only concerned about what is in it for themselves.


Selfish? You tell that to my Grandparents, Great Grandparents, and now even my own mom. They paid thousands upon thousands into this Communist program, only to be left broke and totally dependant on the government TIT for survival!
They were told the same lie that you somehow believe will magically come true.

If you want to buy into that BS then I say your ignorance is typical of the rest of Amerika.
Welcome aboard commrade!



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



See, Id argue that previous generations have already done this. You know who the biggest holder of US debt is? It isnt a foreign country. Its social security.

It isnt about liberals, either. Reagan started this domino affect. He is the reason that Social Security became a piggy bank to borrow from. He is the reason our children's future was mortgaged.



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


You're a very giving soul. Your children will certainly appreciate you giving to strangers what you could have given to them.

/TOA



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



See, Id argue that previous generations have already done this. You know who the biggest holder of US debt is? It isnt a foreign country. Its social security.

It isnt about liberals, either. Reagan started this domino affect. He is the reason that Social Security became a piggy bank to borrow from. He is the reason our children's future was mortgaged.


The SS fund has been a piggy bank since it's creation. How do you think FDR funded the war effort?

/TOA



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



See, Id argue that previous generations have already done this. You know who the biggest holder of US debt is? It isnt a foreign country. Its social security.

It isnt about liberals, either. Reagan started this domino affect. He is the reason that Social Security became a piggy bank to borrow from. He is the reason our children's future was mortgaged.


The SS fund has been a piggy bank since it's creation. How do you think FDR funded the war effort?

/TOA


You're correct in that, however, Reagan is the one who started the current trend of taking with no means to pay back.

Dont get me wrong, Im not trying to turn this into a "reagan was bad" thread. Im just saying that if you are only looking at this as a new problem, you have missed the point.



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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As for me, I collect my social security disability on the 4th Wednesday of every month.
I paid the maximum in for over 3 decades of work (it took part of the first decade to earn enough to pay the max).
I've just about "gotten back" everything I put in after only 5 years of receiving benefits.
Fortunately, I kept my pants zipped and never graced the world with offspring.

Too many people I know "maxed out" on SSA payments in the first quarter of the year because they made way more than the "FICA Max". If Social Security tax were paid on the entire salary instead of just a portion, the system would be sustainable - if you make a million you only pay FICA on the first $120K or so, last time I checked.

ganjoa



posted on Aug, 9 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by ganjoa
As for me, I collect my social security disability on the 4th Wednesday of every month.
I paid the maximum in for over 3 decades of work (it took part of the first decade to earn enough to pay the max).
I've just about "gotten back" everything I put in after only 5 years of receiving benefits.
Fortunately, I kept my pants zipped and never graced the world with offspring.

Too many people I know "maxed out" on SSA payments in the first quarter of the year because they made way more than the "FICA Max". If Social Security tax were paid on the entire salary instead of just a portion, the system would be sustainable - if you make a million you only pay FICA on the first $120K or so, last time I checked.

ganjoa


If by sustainable you mean the rich would be funding retirement for the rest of the country without benefiting from it then yes. If by sustainable you mean they would fund and recieve the same percentage as everyone else then no. So what you are advocating is wealth redistribution and forcing the wealthy to pay for everyone elses retirement? Interesting, you want to pay for mine?



posted on Aug, 9 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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Social Security began life as a program to protect working people from rampant corporate greed during a period when labor laws either didn't exist or favored corporate interests. It was an integral part of rebuilding our nation after a horrific econimic period.

It is currently a mismanaged system - but at least it's making money now... I can't count how many debates I've had in the past on ATS because Social Security was losing money... but whatever.

The notion behind it is sound. You pay in and if you, God forbid, get hurt or sick, you've got a slight security net to fall back into. Nobody honest is getting rich off of their SSD or SSI payments. There has to be a safety net for certain people who endure unfortunate circumstances. And I will admit, before it's brought up - the system is exploited by a fair number of folks who are just too sorry to work and who act sick to get paid. But I don't think the sins of those few should be used to punish those who really need the help.

I also know that conservatives will say that these people who got sick or injured should have prepared for their own "rainy day". Well, let me tell you as a person who did just that... savings go fast when you're paying sky high medical bills, and your standard bills, - all while unable to work.

Oh, and another common misconception that gets tossed around... SSD and SSI are easy to get. I'm two years and four months into my claims and have yet to see a penny. One of my friends, with full blown MS actually died before she ever was approved for her benefits.

So, to answer your question. I am happy to see that Social Security is finally being run a bit better and is becoming a bit more sound - especially since they are currently overwhelmed with cases from soldiers returning home for war zones. I'd like for the people of the future to have the same safety nets I'd expect all of us to have today.

I am also for revamping the system with the caveat that we don't privatize it and put it into the control of some Wall Street bank... I've lost all faith in those folks - and I only had a grain or two of faith with them to begin with.

~Heff


edit on 8/9/12 by Hefficide because: It just wouldn't be a Heff post without a plethora of typos

edit on 8/9/12 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2012 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Well thought out reply. Here is one change I would like to seen made, the option for a person to choose to not pay in and instead pay into a private system. It should be our choice, as it is our retirement. I have no doubt I could get a much better return if I was allowed to manage my own money, unfortunately I barely make enough to pay my cost of living expenses so I have no money to invest where I know I could make money. When I finish nursing school I will put my theories to the test, and I bet I will have a 500% return over my social security payments.



posted on Aug, 9 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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I've paid the full bill for a BSN in nursing school and all the living expenses and books that go with it.
Fortunately it was the best investment I ever made because with my disability, my spouse-nurse provides the primary support for the family.
I'll be glad to take the other side of your bet because you'll probably never make enough as a nurse to max out on FICA these days, hospitals don't provide "pension plans" any longer and your 401K investment options won't provide the returns you expect.

ganjoa



posted on Aug, 10 2012 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by ganjoa
I've paid the full bill for a BSN in nursing school and all the living expenses and books that go with it.
Fortunately it was the best investment I ever made because with my disability, my spouse-nurse provides the primary support for the family.
I'll be glad to take the other side of your bet because you'll probably never make enough as a nurse to max out on FICA these days, hospitals don't provide "pension plans" any longer and your 401K investment options won't provide the returns you expect.

ganjoa



Who said 401k is what I was doing? The hospital I work at currently does do a pension plan. Also I graduated Cum Laude with a 3.9GPA in my current degree and plan on going for CRNA which makes starting $130k in the crappy state I live in. (only added my GPA since CRNA is very competitive, so showing it's not a pipe dream for me, I was not trying to brag and in no way think it makes me cool or better than anyone else)

With that said I am happy you are happy with your decision, and hope my results are as good as yours
Nursing is a tough job.



posted on Aug, 10 2012 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by tvtexan
I can tell you for sure that I have paid way more into Social Security than I will ever get out!
Social Security is a TAX,



Not only is it a tax, but we're also taxed on the tax itself. I don't really know if it has always been this way and I just noticed it last year, or if something was quietly changed, but the money automatically taken from each paycheck towards Social Security and Medicare counts against your total income and is taxed. We are paying the government for the "blessing" of paying the government!

My generation has come to grips with the FACT that Social Security is simply another tax we'll never see returned to us. It will be dead long before we late Generation Xers retire. The money having been pissed away by shoddy management and misappropriation of funds thanks to policies such as throwing fistfulls of our money to people who never paid a cent into the system. I'd just like to see my kids' generation get a shot at opting out entirely, cut the government off from at least one citizen funded teat, if you will.



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