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Theosophy and Christianity

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posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 11:31 PM

Originally posted by network dude
A by-product of the enlightenment era is Theosophy. It is explained thusly:

Theosophy (from Greek θεοσοφία theosophia, from θεός theos, divine + σοφία sophia, wisdom; literally "divine wisdom"), refers to systems of esoteric philosophy concerning, or investigation seeking direct knowledge of, presumed mysteries of being and nature, particularly concerning the nature of divinity. Theosophy is considered a part of the broader field of esotericism, referring to hidden knowledge or wisdom that offers the individual enlightenment and salvation. The word esoteric dates back to the 2nd century CE.[1] The theosophist seeks to understand the mysteries of the universe and the bonds that unite the universe, humanity and the divine. The goal of theosophy is to explore the origin of divinity and humanity, and the end of world, life and humanity. From investigation of those topics theosophists try to discover a coherent description of the purpose and origin of the universe.

link to source

In a sense, this is what most of us here are doing. We are searching for answers. Except the devout Christians it seems. The devout born agains seem to be directly opposed to the searching for any answers.

The very word "Theosophist" seems to be a dirty word and is associated with Lucifer and Satan.
A person searching for answers can go about it in many different ways. But where is the harm in this search? What might happen? Is the fear that the individual might find that he/she no longer needs the Shepherd to lead them to the path of salvation every Sunday and Wednesday? Is this fear limited to the almighty dollar and the chance of missing out on someone's 10%? I believe that is the ultimate reasoning, and it is sold to the cult members many different ways to get them to try to discourage anyone from seeking anything that is outside of the realm of the church.

Is it a conspiracy? I believe so. The rulers of the church are against anyone not pouring dollar bills into their business. Saving souls comes at a high price. After all, you cannot save a soul without a big fancy building and many, many parishioners.

Is it possible that religion has lost it's focus? you decide.

Just keep believing everything the world tells you about how Christians are without actually knowing. Just keep believing all kinds of weird and waked out ways to explain away the truth, to give your pride and ego a bit of a pick me up. Do all you can to save yourself.... ha ha...

The reason Christians are in the know about a lot of stuff, is simple. When you become a Christian, The holy spirit enters you. You now have a spirit in you that knows all. You're connected to divinity. It starts to show you everything. You soon start to understand the basics about most everything and the systems and being running it all.

You no longer are on this "SEARCH FOR UNDERSTANDING". That's old news! You're done your search. Once your locked in you know what the universe is all about. Something a non believer can't understand. And to think you can out think this level of devine knowledge to somehow go back to a pimitive form of understanding is so unbelieveably reduculous, nonsensical and ludicrace. Once you invite the spirit in, you can't GET RID OF IT. It doesn't work that way. Once your in your in for life. Doesn't matter what you do, there's no escaping God once he's in you. There's no cure for this virus. And once you have it you never want to get rid of it. Even if say you got dilusional and tried, it wouldn't work very good. God would just come down give you a wake up call and you'd be back on track. If we wonder too far he comes and brings us back to source, and we immediately see clearly again.

Any Christian will tell you that this is dead on. I know I'm trying to explains something to a non believer who doesn't want to believe. That too is taboo but in case anyone else is reading maybe the understanding might reach them. But no you just keep believing what you want, mock all you want, and keep living in the dark. You'll never understand what we understand. And I've already been in your shoes and know how hopeless that path is.

posted on Aug, 18 2012 @ 11:56 PM
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

Do you realize how long ago she even said that compared to the corrupted system that we have in place now?

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:21 AM
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

tactical error...I am not really interested in tactics as I try to be straight forward. The only tactic I am using in giving you a prophetic warning about the Sunday law/anti Sabbath law that the antichrist will bring in so that you will be able to identify the antichrist. I am relying on you to be able to remember this fact alone and use your rational thinking of my the 'anti-christ' is pursuing those people specifically who gave the next warning that would identify him.

It is good that you don't overtly worship this deity Satan but your avatar picture is laced with at least 4 symbols that all mean Satan to the inner circles...but if you don't believe they do they there is no point getting into a tussle over it.

It's funny that you call Santa, Father Christmas, and Santa is an anagram of 'Satan'. That should tell you a whole lot.

Actually I call Santa to be Satan as well just like I call 'lord Sanat' to be yet another anagram of Satan. You make it sound like the bible actually says Jesus was born on December 25th. Considering that I have already mentioned that the Bible says the Vatican is from Satan it is no surprise to me that this pagan festival honoring the rebirth of the self proclaimed 'sun-god' Satan was brought into popular existence by the Vatican as well (same with the Vatican changing the dates of the Jewish passover to coincide with the pagan fertility festival of Ishtar on 'Easter'). It is very important to understand that the only thing the Bible mentions about the time of year when Jesus was born is that the Shepherds were still in the fields which completely rules out the any time in the northern hemisphere winter so 25th December is a no go.

Of course most Christians are totally unaware of the sneaky crap the Vatican pulls and how Satan tries to get vicarious veneration by tagging himself on to seemingly Jesus acknowledging things anyway he can. As I said how God only judges people based on the knowledge that they have, if Christians are unaware of what they are doing then He doesn't hold it against them. Just like He doesn't hold it against anyone making a bad decision (following a false religion) based on faulty information, He is able to judge the heart to see what ones character and true intentions are and that is what matters to God the most.

You are making bad assumptions about what the Bible teachers. There are heaps of Christians that honor God with their lips only but their hearts are not His and they will not be making it into 'the book of life' and there are heaps of people who have never known Jesus based on where they live or life circumstances that will make it into heaven. If one knows Jesus' true character and rejects Him though then that is where things become more difficult for their case. That is what Jesus and the Father are doing in heaven right now since the year 1844 (the end of the 2300 year prophecy which began at the building of the second temple), they are currently going through the life records of everyone in existence to decide their case. When probation ends and the book of life closes then that is when Jesus makes His second coming. Before then though we are going to have this false-christ (satan) impersonating the second coming of Jesus pop up and bring in this law which will divide everyone into two camps (designed to eliminate lukewarm believers how are not acceptable to God as He wants their whole heart and bring in those into His heavenly kingdom that are not willing to give their allegiance to this anti-christ who's character will prove tyrannical over time).

Yes it would be the most absurd thing you ever heard if that is in fact what the bible teaches rather than the 'false-prophet' which is the false teachings of some protestant churches. We are expected to do good things and give our lives as useful service to God (in charities and the like) but it needs to be also understood that we can't 'earn' our way to heaven either. It is through Jesus shed blood we are made clean before the Father and when we come to understand this sacrifice and ransom paid for us then if we reject that price paid then good works will mean little as well. It is a balance of the two, neither separately are exclusively sufficient. The bible even says that those that are unfruitful (don't produce good works) will be cut off from Him.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:33 AM

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

"New Age" means the coming of the age of Aquarius. Pisces is passing, Jesus' time is over. Aquarius is the time of knowledge, and guess what we keep finding more of as the years go on?

That's right, knowledge. And eventually, you will either be forced to let go of your anchor or be set adrift at sea for someone else to find. Because we're not stopping just to console your broken idols.

Our species is advancing. We are developing, growing stronger and greater than ever before. You, with all of your righteous ideals and petty vices, will not stop us. We will either fight onward to a new dawn, or we will destroy ourselves. That is the destiny of Homo Sapiens.

I am very interested to hear more about this theology related to the Age of Aquarius and how long this teaching has been known for. I would like to see the evidence that Jesus is actually associated with the age of Pisces. How long have people actually based their theology on the current signs of the zodiac?

What evidence do you have that our species is actually advancing? Considering that the whole transformation is meant to be based at the genetic level, please provide some examples of random/natural processes that can be confirmed by science that anything can be shown genetically to have increased in genetic complexity and thus 'evolved' to something higher and better (which is the basis for the whole New Age ascension right, genetic upgrades)

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:56 AM
reply to post by r2d246

Once you invite the spirit in, you can't GET RID OF IT. It doesn't work that way. Once your in your in for life. Doesn't matter what you do, there's no escaping God once he's in you.
Any Christian will tell you that this is dead on.

Well I am a Christian and I am telling you that this Calvinistic information is wrong and your post is extremely dangerous and not giving the correct message at all (under your scenario Hitler makes it to heaven as a baptized 'Christian'). Here are some verses for you to ponder about if we can really do no wrong after that

2 Peter 2:18-22
Deceptions of False Teachers

18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:6, Matthew 7:19, Matthew 3:10, Luke 3:9)

Hebrews 10:26-39

New King James Version (NKJV)
The Just Live by Faith

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

If you think you can just become a 'Christian' then do a Hitler who called himself a 'Soldier for God' and kill as many people as you want then you have another thing coming. Anyone who receives the Holy Spirit then greaves Him away by your deeds then the bible says it will be worse for you than if you had never known Him.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 04:48 AM

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic

There will not be any dissociation between the universal church [i.e the Vatican], the sacred lodge of all true masons and the inner circles of all esoteric this way the goals and work of the United Nations shall be solidified and a new church of God, led by all the religions and by all spiritual groups shall put an end the great heresy of separateness.
Alice A. Bailey, The Externalization of the Hierarchy (New York: Lucis Trust) p.476

This is a quote from Theosophy saying how in the end they will see eye to eye with the Vatican. I included this quote because I believe this will be the case. If I believe Theosophy follows Satan (which they admit after many pages of subterfuge) then the idea was for the reader then to draw the connection then perhaps the Vatican does too.

You must not have read the entire document, Alice Bailey is not making a case that Theosophy does or will "see eye to eye with the Vatican" despite your attempt to make it seem so. She is advocating spirituality outside of the control of the Church.

In the West, what the Great Ones seek to break is not the form of Christianity but the grip of the Churches on the minds of the masses. The old forms of thought and of interpretation are now too restricted and too tightening in their hold upon the imprisoned and struggling life. That life must break forth. It cannot be confined by the ancient restrictions. Yet at this time there does not exist the need for an utterly new venture or for an entirely new presentation of truth. Nature and evolution move with gentle gradations and not with breaks and uncorrelated manifestations in the world of forms. In all the progressing developments, the old outlines can be seen—enlarged, purified and more beautiful, yet recognisable as the old form on a higher turn of the spiral. It is not the freak cults, nor the widely divergent sects, nor the bands of advanced religious revolutionaries who can meet the crying need of the many enquirers today. What is required is the revivification of the old forms, and their infusion with fresh life; the old organisations must be awakened to the hour of opportunity and must change from static organisations to living organisms.

The Externalization of the Hierarchy

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 05:21 AM

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by r2d246

Once you invite the spirit in, you can't GET RID OF IT. It doesn't work that way. Once your in your in for life. Doesn't matter what you do, there's no escaping God once he's in you.....

Oh ya, all wise and powerful human who orders God in, and then orders him out just as easy. Wow if you can really do that then you must be some kind of a God yourself. First off Hilter was never a Christian. At least he wasn't saved. But again I'm basing this opinion on the propaganda history. I have no clue what he was really like. The point is once you accept with a sincere heart, God enters and starts to work. Someone who goes in even skeptically comes out knowing and is saved. You got to start somewhere. I've heard your type of arguments many times trust me. I don't think it's that easy to fall away. I think when the holy spirit enters you, it then decides on a lot of things. You're then powerless to decide to order the holy spirit out. It's so non sensical. Us ordering God around. Get real. He decides. You don't order God around my friend.

"And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." ....This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed - he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 08:19 AM
reply to post by network dude

‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” (Mark 15:34; Matthew 27:46)

That is when all the world's sins were placed upon Him as our substitute. Considering that transgression from the Divine Law separates us from the Father, Jesus could fell the presence of the Father leave Him. He incarnated to have all the same weakness as any man and this is reflected in his emotional cry-out here. Considering the evidence for the resurrection, the Father most certainly did not abandon Him
edit on 19-8-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 09:56 AM
reply to post by AsherahoftheSea

That's not true. You assume that because malevolence does not manifest through people and creatures in a benevolent universe that it means that the very concept of malevolence does not exist in such a place, and that it would not be known or available to study because there would not be such strong and readily observable examples in daily living that could be seen on a daily basis.

Please don't assume you know what I am thinking. I am more that aware that malevolence, and sometimes pure evil does in fact manifest from human beings. Strangle, it is not observed within the animal kingdom. I am talking about the Yin/Yang principle. I am also aware that the Chinese philosophical idea of Yin and Yang may bear some resemblances to the theory of contradiction in Western philosophy. According to the theory of Yin and Yang, a good state of existence and development of a thing depends on a good balance between the two sides of Yin and Yang in the thing.

For myself, the Middle Path, or rather the Path of inner nature connected to outer nature, Spirit and Human connection balanced between good and evil. The True Middle Path is a deep appreciation and awe in watching the sunrise or sunset, the forest in the light of a glowing moon, a meadow enchanted by the first light of day. It is the morning dew on the petals of a beautiful flower, the gentle caress of a warm summer breeze upon your skin, or the warmth of the summer sun on your face. It is is the fall of colorful autumn leaves, and the softness of winter snow. It is light, and shadow and all that lies in between. It is the song of the birds and other creatures of the wild. It is being in the presence of Mother Earth's nature and being humbled in reverence. When we are in the Temple of the Lord and Lady, we are not prone to the arrogance of human technology as they touch our souls. To be a healer, a teacher, a seeker, a giver, and a protector of all things. If this path is yours, may you walk it with honor, light and integrity.

You also assume that benevolence = helpless, or so peaceful that it is easily destroyed or conquered. Again not so.

Again, the "assume." I do not really "assume" anything, I prefer facts, and experience, coupled with knowledge to define a thing, or principle. That being said, allow me to explain. I have often stated to Christians, "why not turn your back on Satan, and just stop believing in him?" This does not negate Evil, it only negates an Avatar humans have created for themselves, in an effort to explain the Principle of Darkness. Darkness refers to a restriction of perception but also to an unmeasured source of possibilities. Darkness cancels the forms and opens other senses less used. Darkness must not ever be mistaken with The Void, or with the evil forces, darkness is taken into account here only at a principle level. The Dream World and Imagination are part of the Principle of Darkness. The essential qualities of a Dark Moon, for instance, are change and transformation.

The true Yin and Yang is the Left/Right Brain principle. Philosophical traditions have repeatedly told us that the answers to he ultimate questions of life and death are found, not in the External/Material World, but deep within the dark recesses of our own minds. People, for the most part, are 'bicameral,' directed by voices emanating from the Right side of the brain and apprehended by the Left side, where most live, voices that they treated as Divine and obeyed unquestioningly until a series of natural disasters and the growing complexity of their society forced them to become fully conscious.

Today the majority of Humanity is afraid of many of the Darkness [and Dark God/Goddess] teachings, such as Alchemy, Astrology, Macick, and other Spiritual or Psychological disciplines, which reveal information about the unconscious or subtle dimensions of being. The Bible has told us that these principles are Evil, and contrary to the will of God, but that does not make it so, the Bible may be many things, but it is not the ultimate in truth.

Malevolence is not just disruption. It is a force that requires measured intelligence and desire to truly cause harm. It is a hard concept to explain, and I know I am not doing as well as I could. I am getting tired of trying to explain it though.

Why try so hard to push Malevolence so hard, may I inquire? Hate is taught, from parent to son/daughter, and should not ever be taught.

You may say that it would not make sense for one to study such things because you assume it would not be needed.

Please show me where I said that? To me, it makes perfect sense.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 10:23 AM
reply to post by KSigMason

The way you ask the question I could not have given a yes or no answer to it. When I say the old covenant you are mistakenly thinking I am referring to the Old Testament as a whole. The terms and conditions of the old covenant are mostly found in the first 5 books of the bible and even though the early Hebrews basically broke the covenant straight away, they were still to hold all that was required of them until the time when Jesus fulfiled the terms of the new covenant when he completed His sacrificial requirement. The terms and conditions of the new covenant would be found in the Old Testament given after the time of the old covenant being broken (so you might start seeing some promises if they do this or that starting up again after those first 5 books). That is why I included the verses in Isaiah, an Old Testament book talking about the promises and expectations in the new covenant. Colossians chapter 2 gives a more specific idea what is still expected and what one can do if they wish but isn't compulsory any longer (note that in the verses on the sabbaths days in Colossians relates to the annual festival days which should be confirmed if you read some commentaries on verses 15-17)
I don't believe that I have called the Mason 'cultish' ...please direct me to where I have. I think the word gets thrown around way too much like I have experienced on this thread when it is completely unwarranted for Adventism. Considering how I think it entirely miss used in that situation I try to make an effort not to use it in other situations (even when I personally think it more warranted). By using the term it short-circuits the thinking of people to think that nothing useful or valuable could ever come from anyone labeled as from a 'cult'. To me it seems like it is mostly being used in this thread to show ones own ignorance in not being able to present any proper argument...but anyways, I digress
The picture of the writing where I say "according to Masonry" should be the book Morals and Dogmas p. 292 according to the site I got the picture from. Can anyone confirm that the info on that cross in from that book and page.

I do love how you added your own edition into the Pike quote about the Blazing Star.

I don't mean to misrepresent the quote. I am just copying it from where I got it from (which is obviously not my own version of the book which I don't have). Can you help me out with the proper reference to it then and what page it is on (I have a feeling it is p. 16 but not 100% sure)? Is there anything on that page about Isis connected with Sirius as well?

edit on 19-8-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 10:53 AM
I asked earlier to the Mason's here if there were any links of the Theosophical 'Christ' reappearance for their New Age and that of the New Atlantis of the Mason's for someone like Hiram Abiff or Osiris. I just came across some info today that seemly draws these links and I would like some comments on these.

The outcome of the “secret destiny” is a World Order ruled by a King with supernatural powers. This King was descended of a divine race; that is, he belonged to the Order of the Illumined for those who come to a state of wisdom then belong to a family of heroes-perfected human beings.

(Manly P. Hall, The Secret Destiny of America (Los Angeles, CA: The Philosophical Research Society, Inc., 1991), 26.)

The Dying God [Osiris] shall rise again! The secret room in the House of the Hidden Places shall be rediscovered. The Pyramid again shall stand as the ideal emblem of…resurrection, and regeneration.

Manly P Hall, Secret Teachings, 104.)

Seek ye where the broken twig lies and the dead stick molds away, where the clouds float together and the stones rest by the hillside, for all these mark the grave of Hiram [Osiris] who has carried my Will with him to the tomb. This eternal quest is yours until ye have found your Builder, until the cup giveth up its secret, until the grave giveth up its ghosts. No more shall I speak until ye have found and raised my beloved Son [Osiris], and have listened to the words of my Messenger and with Him as your guide have finished the temple which I shall then inhabit. Amen.

Manly P. Hall, Lost Keys, Prologue.

These eminent Masonic scholars have all recognized in the legend of Hiram Abiff an adaptation of the Osiris myth; nor do they deny that the major part of the symbolism of the craft is derived from the pagan institutions of antiquity when the gods were venerated in secret places with strange figures and appropriate rituals.

Manly P. Hall, “Rosicrucianism and Masonic Origins,” from Lectures on Ancient Philosophy—An Introduction to the Study and Application of Rational Procedure (Los Angeles: Hall, 1929), 397–417.

Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter, and the Eye of the World; and his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges.
Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 472

Some of these quotes suggest that the Christ of Theosophy is analogous to Hiram and that Hiram Abiff is analogous to Osiris...can anyone comment of these further

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 10:54 AM
reply to post by EnochWasRight

I tune pianos. I cannot tune a piano equal temperament and find harmony.

And I can tune V8 engine, and find harmony as each cylinder fires at the same rate, and the smoothness of a well tunes engine purrs in happiness. I can also tune a Windows computer, to make it faster, and make it forget everything it learned during your last session. I have also discovered how to find harmony within my own self, a principle that you, my friend, seem not to understand. In other words, you cannot see how I can have peace, stability, and harmony without worshiping your version of God, or following Christian dogma. For the record, I am happier right now than I have ever been. I have been blessed, and provided for in ways you probably would never understand. And I didn't find this by giving all will, all heart, and all Soul to an unknown being, or a human being who once taught here. To me that would be akin to Servitude, Slavery, or Bondage. I am Free, and like it that way. I do not hate you, or loathe you, I am here at ATS for the same reason you are. To hear out other people on thoughts I am dealing with, and to find answers. I have a few answers too, but perhaps the answers I provide are not for your ears to hear. You talk to God? Say for instance one fine day God tells you to murder your neighbor for being an Atheist. You say "NO!, but God insists. What would you do? Any God, or Goddess for that matter, who demands worship and servitude is not worth my time, or effort. To me the Father and Mother of Humankind are loving, caring, kind of word and deed. But they have two faces, two sides. Two polarities, just as all in the Universe does. Christians seem to paint their idea of Deity as an all loving all encompassing thing that never goes to the Dark Side of himself, understanding that the Christian God is either three males, or a three-headed being. But even the Christian God has a dark side. Read the Bible if you doubt me. Jealousy, Deceit, giving bad laws is the order of the day with the Biblical God.

Biblical God:
God is Jealous:
Deuteronomy 5:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me...

Deuteronomy 6:15
King James Version (KJV)

15 (For the Lord thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the Lord thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

God is Deceitful:
1 John 4:1
King James Version (KJV)

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

John 8:44

King James Version (KJV)

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
(not exactly true, is it?)

God's Bad Laws and Deeds:

Ezekiel 20:25
King James Version (KJV)

25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

Deuteronomy 22
King James Version (KJV)

9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also.

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,

29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
(forcing a woman to marry her rapist)

It seems that the Biblical God also taught humankind War:

Psalm 144:1
King James Version (KJV)

144 Blessed be the Lord my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

I too can argue all day, but take note, nothing I say to you is aimed at you personally, but rather at that which you wish to push upon me, and the membership here. You must understand that all people will follow your own path, for it is yours, after all, and mine is my own. I do not label your path as Evil, and you should not label my path as Evil.
And yes, we can agree to disagree. All Paths lead to the same Source.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 11:15 AM

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
I asked earlier to the Mason's here if there were any links of the Theosophical 'Christ' reappearance for their New Age and that of the New Atlantis of the Mason's for someone like Hiram Abiff or Osiris. I just came across some info today that seemly draws these links and I would like some comments on these.

(Manly P. Hall, The Secret Destiny of America (Los Angeles, CA: The Philosophical Research Society, Inc., 1991), 26.)

Citing Hall as a Masonic reference is disengenious, he wrote this book decades prior to becoming a Mason and his opinion is just that and nothing more.

Sun was termed by the Greeks the Eye of Jupiter, and the Eye of the World; and his is the All-Seeing Eye in our Lodges.
Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 472

What I have taken Pike to mean in that paragraph, and the preceding ones, is that the All Seeing Eye (the Eye of Providence) was historically used to represent other Dieties as prior to becoming a Masonic emblem it was a Christian one and prior to that it dated to far older cultures and religions.

edit on 19-8-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 11:42 AM
reply to post by AfterInfinity

A star for you AfterInfinity, a most intelligent explanation of the differences between Christianity and Theosophy. I especially liked this part:

Because the group mentality is "don't question things too much." That's how it's always been. And so, in my opinion, religion, or group-search, is a lot less effective than spirituality, or personal-search. Unless the group makes a point of managing it the personal-search way. Hence, theosophy instead of Christianity...obviously, the one is a lot less restrictive than the other, and the human condition, in groups, is always restrictive.

I think an all encompassing word here is Group Think, a particular group of people who all think alike, in the same ways, with the same belief system acting as a filter against any other path. Any other system whatsoever. Then members of this group go about telling others that their Group has the only Truth, and you do not have any of the Truth. This Group will go about telling others that only by doing as they do, believing as they do, will you inherit a rich, heavenly Afterlife. But when questioned on their ways, the Group acts together to further push the agenda at hand. You see, to them, one must never question the Christians God, nor any of his followers. I think they call it "sin" or "blasphemy" or something, and most do not even know the origin of the words they use.

To truly find enlightenment, and personal happiness, one must look for it. Seek it out. You just don't get it because you belong to this church, or that church, and you don't get it by your deeds in life. You find it it only by Seeking for it.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:22 PM

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight

do you even realize how much power you are giving to this "Lucifer"? You are obsessed with him.
Treat him like a troll, ignore him, and he has no power. Damn, if you put the same energy you spend worrying about Lucifer into helping others, you might actually have a good use for your time.

I, for one, have to agree fully with you here. Even in the Christian forums one does not encounter such undying support for Satan/Lucifer/Demons as here in ATS. I truly wish this crowd would keep their little demons and their God-Opposite to themselves. I myself studied Demonology, out of pure curiously, and found that most of the lore came directly from the Church. Why was not I haunted by demons, and why was I not possessed by demons? After all, I was intent on searching out the secrets concerning them? No defense whatsoever? In all my travels on the Ether, I have never encountered such a being the Christians tell me exist everywhere.
So that means either they (the demons) are scared of me, or a Force is protecting me, and preventing me from seeing them.
As for Satan/Lucifer, as Christians always bunch together as one,
(a common theme among the religion) they are distinctly not the same being, if such a being ever existed as "Satan." I cannot find anything pertaining to "Satan" further back than Dante Alighieri's
"Divine Comedy" AD 1310-14. In Medieval Times, the Church Priests were in the process of seizing all power, from even the King. They thought themselves better than all others, and then went about killing a million or so to make everyone believe what they said, and to eliminate competition and dissent. Just because Dante and the Church says there is a Devil/Satan doesn't make it so. But Human Willpower will. A Church, or a person who sees themselves as all Good will need a powerful enemy to scare others with, and to define themselves.

Personally, I believe Lucifer to be an ET, akin to Thoth, or Tahuti, who served as a mediating power, especially between good and evil, making sure neither had a decisive victory over the other. His consort was Maàt. He is credited with making the calculations for the establishment of the heavens, stars, Earth, and everything in them. Compare this to how his feminine counterpart, Maàt was the force which maintained the Universe.

The Ancient Egyptians credited Thoth/Tahuti as the author of all works of science, religion, philosophy, and magic. The Greeks further declared him the inventor of astronomy, astrology, the science of numbers, mathematics, geometry, land surveying, medicine, botany, theology, civilized government, the alphabet, reading, writing, and oratory. They further claimed he was the true author of every work of every branch of knowledge, human and divine. Thoth/Tahuti is also credited with authorship of the
The Emerald Tablets of Thoth. So in effect, Lucifer, (a Latin word, not Hebrew, Greek, or Akadian) is truly a Bringer of Light and Knowledge if the kinship I mentioned it in fact the truth of the matter.
Check this:

Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").

The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and --- ironically --- the Prince of Darkness.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:34 PM
reply to post by autowrench

I have said many times that without the darkness, light cannot be defined. Without the lessons of that which is called "sin", we do not truly appreciate the moral value and the positive effect of doing what is right.

That is why Lucifer is called the "Bringer of Light." His ideal reinforces what we are taught in life. We cannot truly appreciate the good without experiencing the bad. That's why we were given sin, so we could learn from our mistakes. It's IMPOSSIBLE to learn without making mistakes.

Christians are so afraid of their flaws, because they see in black and white. I see in 50,000 shades of gray, and I see both the harm and the good that each shade can do. That is the meaning of the yinyang, and that's what it represents in my avatar. Good and evil need each other. Positive and negative must both exist, like the ebb and flow of the ocean. The world is not black and white, my friends. It is many shades of gray, and the gray depends purely upon perspective.

You can do good with bad situations, and you can do bad things with good situations.

"I haven't failed a thousand times. I've just found a thousand ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison

edit on 19-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:35 PM
reply to post by AfterInfinity

It's not so much two different people, but two ways of looking at the same thing. Satan is when you look at sin as a bad thing, Lucifer is when you look at sin as a learning experience.

Depends on one's definition of a sin. Using myself as an example here, I have done many things, and said many things, that I was sorry about after. I learned from these experiences, just as everyone needs to do. I guess one could give it a Latin name, if it helps one, to learn from life experiences and heartaches, but in reality it is still the same thing.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 12:42 PM
reply to post by autowrench

There are few things I regret in this life, because I know that I have but tossed a few grains onto an entire moon of sins shared by the human race. My greatest regret is having had the power of a god, once in my life...and making what I feel to be the wrong decision.

However, I feel I have at least partially redeemed that mistake. A man came along with a lost baby duckling, and I watched over it until he came back, having decided that his children would love a pet duck. I have no way of knowing if he went through with it, but I feel that somehow, I had a part in saving that duckling.

On that day, a tiny slice of my faith in humanity was restored. But give it a day or two, and all faith is once again lost.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Murgatroid

We are searching for answers. Except the devout Christians it seems. The devout born agains seem to be directly opposed to the searching for any answers.

How ironic, searching for ANSWERS from a pathological liar AKA "the father of ALL lies".

So Theosophists believe that Satan is God, our benefactor and the Father of Spiritual mankind...

And yet they believe that CHRISTIANS are opposed to searching for answers?

CLEARLY someone has a few pieces missing from their puzzle and is taking delusion to whole new level...

"Clearly, Helena Blavatsky was a devout Satan worshipper, and an enemy of the cross of Jesus Christ. She is also one of the pioneers of today's occult New Age Movement...

"It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God."


The Theosophical Society believes Lucifer is God ... Satan, the Serpent of Genesis as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind."

Helena Blavatsky may have been a practitioner of Theosophy, but she did not invent Theosophy, nor did the Theosophical Society.
JG gives credit where none is due. A quick search found this:

The word theosophy has been used in the Occident for about 2,000 years to indicate knowledge of divine things or knowledge derived from insight and experience as well as intellectual study. It comes from the Greek theos (god, divinity) and sophia (wisdom), and means divine wisdom — wisdom concerning life from a standpoint of the divine consciousness which informs the universe. While the modern theosophical movement can be traced back to Blavatsky and her teachers, it is part of a spiritual movement as old as thinking humanity. Its philosophy is a contemporary presentation of a perennial wisdom underlying the world's religions, sciences, and philosophies. Theosophical concepts are not dogmas; only the ideas that have value need be accepted. Theosophical books are considered neither as revelation nor final authority, but as guides in the individual's search. However, there are some basic concepts that theosophy brings to light.

A primary idea is the essential oneness of all beings. Life is everywhere throughout the cosmos because all originates from the same unknowable divine source. Consequently, everything from the subatomic to plants, animals, humans, planets, stars, and galaxies is alive and evolving. Each is divine at its root and expresses itself through spiritual, intellectual, psychological, ethereal, and material ranges of consciousness and substance. Evolution reflects this emerging self-expression of faculties which differentiates into material forms; develops spiritual and conscious aspects; and, over cosmic time-periods, returns to the divine source. The life of the individual, of humanity, and of the entire earth is part of this cosmic process.

History of the Theosophical Society

The Theosophical Society is a worldwide association of men and women dedicated to the uplifting of humanity through a better understanding of the oneness of life and the practical application of this principle. Founded in New York City in 1875 by Helena P. Blavatsky, Henry S. Olcott, William Q. Judge, and several others, it is an expression of a spiritual and educational movement that has been active in all ages.

posted on Aug, 19 2012 @ 01:10 PM
reply to post by EnochWasRight

Those were many words expressing a single thought of error on my part. Where is the counterargument? My mind works on metaphor extremely well. Please provide a better understanding. If I have failed to reduce the symbols to the root, then keep reducing for me. I am always open to seeing deeper toward the root. Even better, reflect the light another direction to reveal they perspective you see.

In all truth and understanding, friend, we, (collectively the membership of ATS) cannot teach you anything. All you can do is learn. Be a Seeker of Knowledge without restrictions or Dogma getting in your way. All we (collectively the membership of ATS) can do is post that which we know. The rest, my friend, is wholly up you you.

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