Appeals Court OKs Warrantless Wiretapping, page 1


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Topic started on 8-8-2012 @ 10:16 AM by Maxmars

Appeals Court OKs Warrantless Wiretapping


www.wired.com
The federal government may spy on Americans’ communications without warrants and without fear of being sued, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday in a decision reversing the first and only case that successfully challenged President George W. Bush’s once-secret Terrorist Surveillance Program.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
gizmodo.com
news.hitb.org
www.ca9.uscourts.gov


reply posted on 8-8-2012 @ 10:16 AM by Maxmars
Given the emotional climate at the time, and the history preceding this case, there is little chance, in my opinion, that the state will ever relinquish the power it now has as a result of our hypersensitivity to the specter of "terrorism."

In time, "privacy" will probably have to be licensed, bonded, and applied for.

Using government resources to spy on civilians became recognized as more than just a hateful practice once the Republican presidential scandal over "Watergate" had unraveled. It became a defining element of the reason doing so became a punishable offense.

The Foreign Surveillance Act made law that American civilians would never be the target of surveillance... if their speech or ideas were recorded inadvertently, in connection with surveillance of a legitimate target... any and all intelligence that identifies the American citizen would be removed and destroyed immediately upon detection. Exceptions could only be granted by direct authorization from the Attorney general of the United States. This was the legacy of the Executive Order of then President Jimmy Carter.

Enter 9/11 - making it unwise to restrict that intelligence gathering potential? Not exactly.

The laws were weakened by Executive Order even before the first Iraq-US confrontation in Kuwait. After 9/11 the former restrictions effectively became encouragements to seek the terror bogeyman wherever it might be imagined, inferred, or implied.

“This case effectively brings to an end the plaintiffs’ ongoing attempts to hold the executive branch responsible for intercepting telephone conversations without judicial authorization,” a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals wrote.


The Defendants exonerated from liability here were not people, but organizations... FBI, NSA, The Department of Treasury... etc.

The case concerned a lower court decision in which two American attorneys — who were working with the now-defunct al-Haramain Islamic Foundation — were awarded more than $20,000 each in damages and their lawyers $2.5 million in legal fees after a tortured legal battle where they proved they were spied on without warrants.


Until yesterday.

“This case was the only chance to litigate and hold anybody accountable for the warrantless wiretapping program,” he said in a telephone interview. “As illegal as it was, it evaded accountability.”


They may appeal.

The San Francisco-based appeals court ruled that when Congress wrote the law regulating eavesdropping on Americans and spies, it never waived sovereign immunity in the section prohibiting targeting Americans without warrants. That means Congress did not allow for aggrieved Americans to sue the government, even if their constitutional rights were violated by the United States breaching its own wiretapping laws.


No redress.... thank you Congress... "our" supposed representatives in government.

We discovered that the warrentless wiretapping was happening in 2005... how? Because some documents were mailed to the attorneys involved in this suit... they proved that the NSA was intercepting their calls... and with the help of AT&T no less.....

The document was later declared a state secret, removed from the long-running lawsuit and has never been made public.


The sordid history of the eavesdropping, the retroactive immunity Congress granted the telecommunications companies, and the complete absence of accountability paint an ugly picture of the American way of life.... but since those in office and their friends aren't subject to it.... I bet they would prefer if we just went about our lives and not expect 'privacy'... nor have the collective voice and will to demand it.

EDIT TO ADD:
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act

www.wired.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 8-8-2012 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-8-2012 @ 10:54 AM by AlreadyGone
I don't like it...it is un Constitutional and it should be challenged.

On the other hand, does it occurr to anyone to go underground and become "invisible?"

The more advanced technology and communications get, the easier it is to become "invisible."

I talk so little on the phone, the phone company actually called me up to offer a special plan and rate for below average users/ customers. I am not on any social pages, no I-Pad or I-Phone, I use the net so little as to get virtually no e-mails or spam, and even though ATS can be argued as a tracable outlet of info and opinions, I try to speak in such generic terms that it isn't much of a case against me.

Outside of the usual documents such as pay stubs, bank statements, tax records... all of which paint a very normal and boring lifestyle... their isn't much to know about me.

If someone was to try to organize resistance would they use the mail service, wording in personal ads, letters, non conspicuous meetings in public places, even sitting down at the country store with a bottle of pop "talking about the weather and commodity prices?"

If the government wants to listen in, there isn't much i can do about it except bore them to death with the "top secret" info of my mother falling in the yard while hanging out clothes, daddy getting some really nice tomatoes now and they will probably can some by the end of the week, there was a good crowd at church last Sunday and so and so is having a suprise dinner for her parent's 50th wedding anniversary, oh... and my uncle's wife is doing better after cancer treatments and they might ride up this weekend to see them... sure was nice to get some rain, and corn is going through the roof... beef is gonna go up again... are you gonna get a cow this time or not?
edit on 8-8-2012 by AlreadyGone because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-8-2012 @ 11:03 AM by Maxmars
reply to post by geobro



Unfortunately, those in the establishment say we actually did vote for this... via our proxies elected to "represent us" to the Federal government. Of course, common sense and even a cursory review of recent history tells us that this is just a game to them. They are going to implement whatever they can to ensure the Republican/Democrat duopoly of power is never threatened with replacement by a different political (read non-corporate) regime.

All of this surveillance and all of this 'security' is just a metaphor for controlling the governed... that and the top secret, never to be discussed publicly, "Continuity of Government."
edit on 8-8-2012 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-8-2012 @ 11:12 AM by Maxmars
reply to post by AlreadyGone



I understand your position; but sadly, it feeds into the "well I don't have anything to hide so let them look all they want." strategy of justifying why they can pick and choose whose privacy they will dismiss... and everyone spectating can only assume that it was justified.

What reasoning can be evoked to demonstrate that the only reason any government would have to include every single citizen as a "potential suspect" is a clear indicator of their "having something to hide" themselves?

The American citizen never before had to 'expect' to be 'suspected' - and the Federal government never before had adopted a 'guilty' until we say otherwise posture with every citizen. Military resources were for national security, not local... states employ and train police for that purpose. There was no such thing as defining an attack as "preemptive defense'...

As it stands now, the government has authorized itself to kill you... if you might be a threat... but they will never have to actually prove it to you. And as long as the judges are part of the scheme, they will now "rule over us", as opposed to "serving us" - as was the promise of the American Revolution.
edit on 8-8-2012 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-8-2012 @ 11:17 AM by Maxmars
reply to post by ModernAcademia



I want you to be wrong.... but it's more likely that you're not.

I don't want to fear that the government will use contracted security and foreign police to "maintain order" and 'root out bad guys'.... but I do.

I didn't want the fiscal abomination and political prostitution of our 'professional corporate politicians' to be made into "first class citizens" with enhanced rights and entitlements.. but they are.

And I certainly expected that the 'balance' between the three branches of government could maintain at least some hope of allowing the citizens to have redress, and be able to force government to remain true to "our" will..... but I was wrong.

edit on 8-8-2012 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-8-2012 @ 03:36 PM by AlreadyGone
reply to post by Maxmars



My point is not that have nothing to hide. My point is that I may have something to hide and I am hiding it.

What am I hiding? The means to rebell against the very premise of the OP... tyrrany in the name of security.

How do we do that until it is time to act? By maintaining a front here on the net and in normal society... a front of subservience, normality, and "lawfulness"... all the while, much like the revolutionaries of the 1760s and 1770s, we meet in the pubs, taverns, and store fronts and pass info and messages while we smile and drink our Pepsi Colas and eat our Little Debbie Snacks or wonder about the weather at a church supper over fried chicken.



reply posted on 9-8-2012 @ 06:30 AM by geobro
reply to post by Maxmars



i do not vote it only encourages them . if you do they will be back in 4 yrs wanting you to do it again .......there will be none of that when im president


reply posted on 15-8-2012 @ 12:51 PM by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Maxmars



Nice find, there is no escaping this ever increasing level of surveilance. It seems that any ruling that is for the people gets appealed then over ruled.

First it was:

FBI allowed to add GPS device to cars without warrants

Then it was:

High Court: Warrant Needed For GPS Tracking

Even though the information you brought forth in your OP is slightly different due to telecommunications being the method of surveilance it shows that there is really nothing we can do about it.

They can pretty much do anything they want without a warrant unless they get caught. Then if they get caught there is a long drawn out court proceeding that eventually judges against the citizens and allows the government systematic implementation of their plans to spy on every aspect of our life.

At least we know they are being honest with their deceit...if that's possible
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