A Well Regulated Militia, Always Ignored.., page 1

After all of these shootings I started thinking about the 2nd amendment and wondered why is the term regulated always ignored? I've never seen it even brought up in any debate on ATS or anywhere for that matter.

Let's look at the 2nd amendment..

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:

What did the term regulated mean in the 1700s?

The term "regulated" means "disciplined" or "trained".[114] In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training."

en.wikipedia.org...

Madison thought the gun owners, or militia should be trained to defend the nation, or they would be entirely pointless against a tyrannical government.

But though the scheme of disciplining the whole nation must be abandoned as mischievous or impracticable; yet it is a matter of the utmost importance, that a well-digested plan should, as soon as possible, be adopted for the proper establishment of the militia. The attention of the Government ought particularly to be directed to the formation of a select corps of moderate extent, upon such principles as will really fit them for service in case of need. By thus circumscribing the plan, it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defence of the State shall require it

Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence.

In times of insurrection, or invasion, it would be natural and proper that the militia of a neighboring State should be marched into another, to resist a common enemy, or to guard the republic against the violence of faction or sedition.

www.foundingfathers.info...

Hamilton clearly thought that the PEOPLE were the militia and that they should be (regulated) trained. The supreme court interprets the militia is EVERYONE. Then EVERYONE should be regulated.

So why are none of the constitutionalists not upset that we do not have a well regulated militia (population of gun owners)? Anyone can go buy a gun without knowing how to use it, what good are they against tyranny? They aren't. They are useless.

What would we have currently if there was an uprising? A trained Federal Military vs Bob with guns in his basement. 99% of these people do not know any military maneuvers. 80% of these people couldn't even hit a moving target. Would we win regardless? Probably not. But by being even somewhat trained, your chances of survival would increase, and hope to tire them like the North Vietnamese.

Why doesn't the NRA lobby for a state controlled militia? Their motto is pro-2nd amendment.. They don't because it would not reap immediate gun sales for corporations. It would also shatter the illusion that guns give their memnbers immediate power against the government, which is one of their talking points.

Why ignore one part of the 2nd amendment but feel so passionate about the other?? It makes really no sense to me. Anyone panicking over gun control should be panicking that there is not a well regulated militia of gun owners.

reply to post by SilentKoala

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I understand that. Read the thread, it isn't about that at ALL.

TLDR version;

Why is everyone pissed off over gun control but not pissed off that we do not have a well regulated militia? They are both in the 2nd amendment.

Hamilton considered everyone in the nation as part as the militia..yet none of our people are trained. Anyone can go buy a gun without knowing how to use it...which means they are all sorts of useless.

But though the scheme of disciplining the whole nation must be abandoned as mischievous or impracticable; yet it is a matter of the utmost importance, that a well-digested plan should, as soon as possible, be adopted for the proper establishment of the militia. The attention of the Government ought particularly to be directed to the formation of a select corps of moderate extent, upon such principles as will really fit them for service in case of need. By thus circumscribing the plan, it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defence of the State shall require it

www.foundingfathers.info...://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed29.htm

reply to post by RealSpoke

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I understand what your trying to convey, only understand that the words of old do not carry the same definition as they would today. So I imagine there would be a loss in translation from todays degenerate version of english.

Also, we do have a militia, although it has been hijacked by the Fed, its called the national guard...each one is privy to its base state....not the nation.

And those who buy guns and don't know how to use them can be just as dangerous as those who do. Its a hell of a learning curve if you don't, but it doesn't take long to get the hang of it.

reply to post by Kastogere

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The national guard is not a militia. It is another branch of the Army. If the supreme court interprets the MILITIA as everyone, then everyone should be trained.

Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government;..... To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence.

www.foundingfathers.info...

How can you defend or help the state if you are in Iraq for a year?

reply to post by stirling

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If you believe that then you must believe that everyone in the militia must be well regulated (trained). You can't ignore one part of the sentence, yet claim the other.

reply to post by RealSpoke

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You should check this out. Militia movement.

People are trying to do militias again. However, most people and the gov are really anti-militia now. See, it's been in decline ever since they were associated with things like the OK city bombing and Waco. Now they're seen by most people as basically homegrown terrorist groups, which they're not, but that's the idea people get from the media.

To start a militia today you have to watch out. You're basically guaranteed to have federal agents infiltrating the group and trying to shut it down.

Even though that's not the way it probably should be, you have to understand that's the way the gov wants it. Like it is now.

The reason is because while they may be scared of individuals, the last thing they want is large, armed, and organized militia groups. That's the reason the gov doesn't force you to be in a militia.

If they did then the people that like guns would all very quickly join up into militias so they could keep playing with their guns see?

In other words, it's done this way on purpose. It's not because they accidentally read the Constitution wrong or something like that. They know what they're doing.

reply to post by RealSpoke

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They didn't realize the future of guns then.It was written when you still had to bite the pouch and stuff the ball.

reply to post by SarnholeOntarable

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What does it have to do with the time line? A well regulated militia would be the same thing it was then as it is now. Which would be a group of people trained that actually know how to use their guns and military tactics.

reply to post by lonegurkha

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The constitution was not talking about a private controlled militia, it was speaking of a government STATE controlled militia. The founding fathers were not anarchists. The constitution is a statist document.

Oranges and apples.

Reply to post by tinfoilman

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Bingo.

Tell folks you own a gun and it's one thing.

Tell folks you drill one weekend a month with a firearms instructor in a group and it becomes a completely different thing.

For all the bitching that's done over education and training you think nobody really means it the way they turn pale when you talk about shoot house runs and ambush drills.

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Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

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reply to post by RealSpoke

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What I meant was,If they had the fire power back then that we do now....there would obviously be some control over the 2nd.

reply to post by tinfoilman

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The reason is because while they may be scared of individuals, the last thing they want is large, armed, and organized militia groups.

That's the reason the gov doesn't force you to be in a militia. If they did then the people that like guns would all very quickly join up into militias so they could keep playing with their guns see?

In other words, it's done this way on purpose. It's not because they accidentally read the Constitution wrong or something like that. They know what they're doing

I think this point is great, and it directly singles out why I think there should be a militia training course for all gun owners.

If everyone knew how to use their guns and military tactics, the country would be safer, and the "guns help fight against tyranny", argument could actually be true.

If a well regulated militia is interpreted as everyone, then EVERYONE should be regulated (trained).

reply to post by RealSpoke

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I couldn't agree more.
Second line lol.

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