Iran vs. USA in one picture

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Most of the evidence - in my mind, anyhow, is the "redecoration" around some specific military and research installations. Top soil has been removed and ferreted away somewhere, and that topsoil was radioactive, measured by remote sensing and nuclear test monitoring equipment. There are some things that just can't be hidden from the eyes in the skies.

Either they're getting ready to plant a victory garden full of carrots, or they're hiding that dirt for another reason. Occam's Razor tells me that where there's smoke, there's fire - or at least a slow smolder. They're not going to all that trouble for simple landscaping, and the military probably has better things to do than just tend a garden.

That's what I meant when I said "circumstantial" evidence. I rarely ever run across proof of anything, on any topic, but evidence sometimes fairly screams at me. I watch the satellites, and have seen other odd activity as well, not specifically nuclear in nature, or at least not confirmed so.

As I've said before, I don't care if Iran builds a nuke for every family unit, and keeps them in the basements. That's not my problem or my business. I do think they ought to be more open about it, though, and back out of the NPT, because furtive actions generally make folks unreasonably suspicious as to what those actions are intended to lead to.

The 20% enrichment is built in to the NPT because that is the weapons-grade nuclear material threshold. One can start building primitive nukes at that point, and dirty bombs somewhat lower. Optimal enrichment for high yield nukes is around 95% enrichment, I think, but you can sure wreck a day at 20% - it's just not as efficient, and doesn't have the higher yield.

High yields is what most nuclear powers aim for, but you reach a point of diminishing returns - you don't get as much "bang for the buck" after a certain point. that's why the largest nukes in casual service during the Cold War were around 3 megatons. The damage produced only increases as the cube root of the yield, so a bomb with 27 times the power only has 3 times the destruction ( 27^(1/3) = 3 ). 3 megatons is about the end of the trade off. Most nukes now in existence are 100 KT or less - 1/10th as powerful as a megaton, but with a comparatively larger destruction radius for the yield.

North Korea's test nuke was also low grade, and only had about 1/2 of a kiloton yield. We call those "artillery shells" in our military, but they seemed inordinately proud of it in theirs.

So Iran is approaching the enrichment threshold for nuclear weapons in their research, and that has some folks worried who don't understand how nukes work, or how dangerous that isn't. people hear the word "nuke" and flip out, never realizing that low yields might wipe out a typical American neighborhood rather than entire city, and only piss off the rest of the country into action.

Defusing that irrational fear requires open dialog, rather than furtive action DESIGNED to spook the masses. Living in fear makes folks lash out, whether that fear is justified or not.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

I know that you are concern about human rights or democracy in Iran but they look at the world approximately from different viewpoint.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
moreover with two government and two military system ! it's safety factor is high, history shows that overthrowing and coup in Iran is like splitting an infinity.

reply to post by nenothtu


As I just got home, I am going to make this as painless as possible. Not in the mood for too much redundancy.

That said, I agree, we can agree to disagree... everyone, you and I both, have a right to our own opinions. But let us look at all this in the light of common sense and rational logic before we go off any deep-ends, such as you are doing at the moment. (IMHO)

Let us think about something, since the day, the very day Khomenei took the office of WF in Iran, TPTB have had a hard-on (to use a common expression) for Iran. No longer did they have their puppet Shah in power to do their bidding and they simply were not happy campers thereafter. (not that we can ever call TPTB happy campers but that is beside the point!) They have been super critical of every cough, and twisted more things than any normal person could imagine possible in effort to gain public support of their hatred, which by the way is about money and not one other darned thing!

Satallite photos... yes... like those that convicted Saddamand killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq, or like the one of the American flag on the moon... lol... that one is a treasure!

You are accepting US photos, which can be of anywhere, and what is really in them is honestly anyones guess! Your simply taking one governments opinion (if we can call it that!), and accepting their crappy lies as some form of truth. When the fact is, they have a hard-on and will stop at nothing to get their way, over monetary interests. They use your fear, public fear, as their tool, and apparently have no qualms making up things to scare you!

You are also accepting US intel concerning radiation levels, again, seems very reminiscent of Iraq in all honesty! Why do we just continue accepting lie after lie before we realize we are being lied to?

Concerning Khamanei:

He is the WF. It is his responsibility and oath to follow Islam in government. It is written into the constitution of Iran, that if the Leader (Khamanei currently) does not adhere to Islam then he will immediately if not sooner be deposed, stripped of any and all title, and any and all power.

While he is the Leader, he is still answerable in his actions to the other Ayatollahs and parliment, this is the safety net provided for in the constitution so that the WF does not and cannot simply become a dictator who does whatever they want! The fatwa stands without ability for change, that nuclear weapons is forbidden. Signed by Khamanei himself!

If he goes back on that fatwa, and pursues nuclear weapons anyway, he looses every ounce of power he has. Even if he is a bad person he wouldnt dare loose the position he holds! No one in their right mind would take that chance!

Therefore, if he is to fight against TPTB, he needs to do so within the laws of Shia Islam... its the only sane thing to do, to find the way that is NOT against Islam, and use that!

make sense? it should, because its common sense!

Sorry for being a B

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Is that burning falafel I smell? S'ok - hit me with your best shot... I might LIKE it crunchy!

I'll get to a proper response after some due deliberation. You ought to know by now, though, that I don't toe the US party line!

reply to post by nenothtu


well your sure towing it now!

and the falafel is not yet burned dear.... I am a very careful and deliberate cook..... dont have people thinking I burn things.... you never get burned food.... only a rare occasion I might make a small mistake...




there is a mouse in the kitchen though, where did you put that arsenic???

Take all the time you need, no hurry.... I am a very patient person!

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Well, I smelled something burning - but that happens sometimes when I get to thinking too hard!

I had a reply for the arsenic, too, but you know, I've suddenly rethought that reply....

reply to post by nenothtu

reply to post by TrueAmerican


odd...

for the last 3 days I've been on ATS at work and every break I get on .. that's 4x in a 12 hour shift...

and this is the first time I saw this thread.. I was WHAAAAT? 145 flags and 165 Stars and mutiple pages... when did this happen??

reply to post by OpinionatedB
To solve the current crisis though, all iran has to do is prove the US and Israel wrong is to open its doors.

I know I sound like a broken record (remember those?) but with the war drums constantly sounding, and to prove their (Irans) innocence, all they have to do is be forthcoming.

Their reluctance is very damning in the eyes of the world.

reply to post by Komodo


It's a Stealth thread!

reply to post by beezzer


does the United States allow other countries into area 51 or other top secret installations?

Iran can be pursuing technology outside of the scope of nuclear and want to keep their knowledge, their research, and other such things, to themselves! Keeping some things to yourself is how you get ahead in this world, you dont go around telling everyone every thing!
'
Iran has the right to her own privacy! Other countries do! Why on earth should Iran be any different?

Originally posted by jaxnmarko
America is no innocent game player, but to say Iran has not engaged in sabotage, attempts to overthrow governments, assassination, or fomenting trouble for other governments is seriously deluded!

and I say ..

show us the links ~!

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Area 51 is a smoke screen. there's nothing of value there any more - it's all been moved. The only purpose for Area 51 now is misdirection... holding rapt attention while the real deal goes on elsewhere. Allowing inspection would shatter that illusion, and that may be a factor also in play in Iran re the nukes.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by beezzer

 

does the United States allow other countries into area 51 or other top secret installations?

Iran can be pursuing technology outside of the scope of nuclear and want to keep their knowledge, their research, and other such things, to themselves! Keeping some things to yourself is how you get ahead in this world, you dont go around telling everyone every thing!
'
Iran has the right to her own privacy! Other countries do! Why on earth should Iran be any different?

true.

But the US is not currently threatening other countries with new technology. The US is secretive. The USis wrong on many counts. I'm not going to defend the US on these issues though.

This is an oppourtunity for Iran to be better than the US.

reply to post by nenothtu


Iran might be wanting to make a better than stealth bomber, they might be making the next fighter jet, they could be figuring out cold fusion, or developing a million types of technology for the betterment of their country, and/or for their own protection from countries with hard-ons for them.....

And they have a right to be treated as equals, just because they are not doing exactly what the US wants concerning banking and other things, does not mean they do not have a right to their own countries privacy!

Do we tell china we will bomb them if they dont hand over every state secret they have? No.... so why do it to others?

None of this means they are seeking nuclear weapons capability! It means they are not willing to hand over every bit of technological knowledge they have to the United States!

reply to post by beezzer


What do you mean the US is not currently threatening other countries?

lol..... you live asleep Beezer? I know you dont!

The US threatens every country on the planet with all the technology they have developed in the past, and in the future!

Originally posted by OpinionatedB


Do we tell china we will bomb them if they dont hand over every state secret they have? No.... so why do it to others?

None of this means they are seeking nuclear weapons capability! It means they are not willing to hand over every bit of technological knowledge they have to the United States!

edit on 14-8-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

You make a valid point.

The difference, I fear, is that countries like China aren't influenced by religious idealogues.

Religion is a topic that has a foundation soley based on faith. Any religion, every religion.

It is inherently irrational. (and I mean that for every religion)

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by beezzer

 

What do you mean the US is not currently threatening other countries?

lol..... you live asleep Beezer? I know you dont!

The US threatens every country on the planet with all the technology they have developed in the past, and in the future!

Let me rephrase.

The US is not "overtly" threatening other countries.

reply to post by beezzer


Our religion is no different than Christianity or any other religion. The Shia are NOT wahabbis!

Having the constitution set up the way it is, provides every check and balance needed so that it does not become some run away thing!

It is a good thing what it is, and Iran has a right to their own damn religion Beezer!

US didnt like the democrasy there when that was in place either! The US doesnt like one damn thing if it is not sucking up to the US!

It is beyond ridiculous Beez~!

reply to post by beezzer


yes they are Beezer..... yes they are!