Iran vs. USA in one picture

reply to post by TrueAmerican



Truth hurts for most.

Is America the Great Satan?

According to Episcopal Bishop John Chane' YES

reply to post by TrueAmerican


You know that's a stupid request. Iran doesn't the Force projection capability to do it. They have Allies in Venuezula and that's about as close as it gets for a possible base in our hemisphere.

I haven't said anything about the US presence in the Middle East or the Bases you guys have there. I have said that the US isn't clean in this and that there hands are as dirty as anyone's but that denying that Iran is as equally guilty in this stuff is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.

So does that answer your request to your satisfaction?

See that's the difference. I am willingly to openly and honestly answer yours and others questions and you guys want to dance. There must be an echo in here.

reply to post by nenothtu

Originally posted by nenothtu
I can't recall who said it to begin with, but there is truth in the notion that no situation is ever as bad as it's detractors claim, nor as good as it's proponents trumpet. The truth is always found between the extremes of opinion. That is the point I start from, when I go to working my way into the darker corners.

When there is no longer anything they are bound to abide by, then they are not expected to abide by it. Same goes for Iran.

yes unfortunately this is the BIG joke of 21th century!
most of people out of middle east just think that Israel is simply a country in the middle east. to clarify that to them it is enough to say that it is just an occupied point.
while Iran,Syria,hamas,Hezbulah all together multiplied by n (n an arbitrary number!) are not comparable to materialistic power of USA plus Israel. just why could not Israel conquest Gaza or south Lebanon in 22 and 33 day war!? because people withstood. even many people in Israel were against war. because they have gone there for better life. I do not think they can find that there though. because this false country was born with war!
decision makers in USA had known it that war with people was useless. so if they attacked Iraq or Afghanistan they knew well that people would not react. and they were fighting with some obsolete leaders.
and now Israel knows it well.

khamenei: “The Iranian nation has never been after nuclear weapons and it will never go after such weapons. The Iranian nation will prove to the world that nuclear weapons do not bring about power. The people can shatter the kind of power that is based on nuclear weapons by relying on their talents and their human and natural capacities.”
english.khamenei.ir...
khamenei:"""They already know this. I do not have any doubts that in the countries that are opposed to us, the organizations in charge of decision-making are fully aware that we are not after nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are not at all beneficial to us."""
english.khamenei.ir...

why is Iran saying that it does not need atomic bombs. while Israel has hundreds of them! maybe these are the answers.

1-Khamenei:""""The solution of the Islamic Republic to the issue of Palestine and this old wound is a clear and logical proposal that is based on political wisdom accepted by global public opinion and it has been presented in detail previously. We neither propose a classical war with the armies of Islamic countries, nor do we propose throwing Jewish immigrants into the sea or intervention of the United Nations and other international organizations. We propose a referendum among the Palestinian people. Just like any other nation, the Palestinian nation has the right to determine its own destiny and to elect its own government. All the original people of Palestine - including Muslims, Christians and Jews and not foreign immigrants - should take part in a general and orderly referendum and determine the future government of Palestine whether they live inside Palestine or in camps or in any other place. The government that is established after the referendum will determine the destiny of non-Palestinian immigrants who migrated to Palestine in the past. This is a fair and logical proposal which global public opinion understands and it can receive support from independent nations and governments.""""
english.khamenei.ir...
so it seems the destruction of Israel does not need any nuclear comb!

2-"US President Barack Obama conceded on Friday that tensions over Iran were "adding a US$20 (RM62) or US$30 premium to oil prices", which are up some 20 per cent since December."
www.nst.com.my...

3- The 118-member Non-Aligned Movement. just if one nuclear launches towards Iran all of them will put down NPT and start making nukes. especially Egypt !
cnsnews.com...

4-Public opinion. especially in the middle east.

To the best of my memory, America has never called for "wiping off the map" any country. Iran's leaders seem to call for wiping Israel off the map fairly regularly. Just my thoughts.

reply to post by GAOTU789


GAOTU, there's really no dancing to it. And there is no comparison. "Equally as guilty", your statement, is absurd. Preposterous. And flat out false, any way you slice it. No comparison, none. There is a clear, long running conspiracy, as has been shown over and over again in this thread and so many others that Iran is being setup by spooks, just the same way as all the other countries that have already BEEN spooked.

Heck, even one of the ATS staff is trying to find proof that Iran has enriched beyond 20%, and is having a tough time. Our own intelligence estimates cleared them, and they sure have complied nearly perfectly with the IAEA, while Israel sits there with a middle finger for anyone that even dare ask about their nuclear capabilities, including the IAEA. Hypocrisy plastered all over their face for all the world to see. That's why I don't respect Israel, and I resent their over abundant influence on our government, not to mention the gobbling up of my tax dollars.

This thread is getting needlessly overcomplicated by those who just can't handle the truth.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

There is a clear, long running conspiracy, as has been shown over and over again in this thread and so many others that Iran is being setup by spooks, just the same way as all the other countries that have already BEEN spooked.

Key word..... Conspiracy.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Heck, even one of the ATS staff is trying to find proof that Iran has enriched beyond 20%, and is having a tough time. Our own intelligence estimates cleared them, and they sure have complied nearly perfectly with the IAEA, while Israel sits there with a middle finger for anyone that even dare ask about their nuclear capabilities, including the IAEA. Hypocrisy plastered all over their face for all the world to see. That's why I don't respect Israel, and I resent their over abundant influence on our government, not to mention the gobbling up of my tax dollars.

The problem I see, is that for every finger pointing, and Damn America threads, there are those who absolve country's like Iran, and Russia, and China, from the very things they want to hypocritically blast America for. Right or wrong, call it down the middle, or don't call it at ALL!

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
This thread is getting needlessly overcomplicated by those who just can't handle the truth.

And overcomplicated by those wishing to address only certain issues, who clearly want to paint one Country, or two, in a bad light, while systematically absolving the rest, on sheer hatred.

reply to post by NullVoid

As far as my statement that China's economy would collapse within a week....I stand by that statement as China's Stock Market would be in an utter stage of PANIC if the U.S. stopped making debt payments as well as the U.S. making a statement that the U.S. Military would enforce a NO TRADE WITH CHINA order from U.S. Leadership.

Stock Markets around the World drop Heavily over much, much smaller issues such as how World Markets Plunged when Iran just made a threat that they cannot even accomplish...that being...Close the STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

Now just IMAGINE how large of a drop the Chinese Stock Market would have in the case of the United States not threatening but ACTUALLY DOING...a Military Enforcement of turning back all Chinese Shipping Container Transports that are destined to unload goods at U.S. Ports as well as the U.S. Government declaring that it will no longer make Debt Payments to China?

China's Stock Market would Collapse the moment this happened and within a week...since the U.S. would most likely have their allies also do the same given that the only reason this scenario would occur would be due to China attempting various forms of Military Actions either upon Taiwan or an Ally of the United States.

The possibility of China attacking directly any U.S. Military base is ZERO% but they could attempt a grab of Taiwan or even more remote...attempt to Militarily help Iran close the Strait of Hormuz. But as I have said...these things will NOT HAPPEN.

U.S. Chinese Relations have improved dramatically since the invite and visit of Top Chinese Military Leaders to the U.S. to view U.S. Naval and other various U.S. Military Drills and Bases. The Chinese Military Leaders who attended left ASTOUNDED and once they informed their Communist Bosses of the incredibly MASSIVE DISPARITY between Chinese Military Forces and the Ultra-High Tech. abilities of U.S. Military Forces...the Chinese Communist Leadership decided that they cannot compete in any Military aspect of any type of WAR scenario with the United States.

This had the desired effect of China doing a 180 and becoming a Better Trading Partner as well as helping the U.S. and World at large...with various issues such as North Korea, Taiwan and China even told Iran that it would NOT HELP IRAN MILITARILY in the event Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz.

A week might even be longer that it would take as I estimate 24 to 48 Hours for the Chinese Stock Market to completely collapse if such a scenario occurred.
Split Infinity

We are discussing this topic on ATS LIVE tonight in the SECOND hour....if any of yall would like to call in and discuss we would LOVE to have you!! It does not matter your stance on the matter - we welcome all opinions !!


ATS LIVE THREAD here

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Iran will never close the strait because USA will never attack Iran and will exempt important countries from it's oil and bank sanctions. WHY!?
because these sanctions may lead to billion dollars to be exchanged not in dollars !

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
GAOTU, there's really no dancing to it. And there is no comparison.

It really isn't dancing just the typical Iranian Apologist side step. Or as many here have observed fumbling about, denying, accusing, finger pointing, justifying and basically ignoring legitimate verifiable history.

"Equally as guilty", your statement, is absurd. Preposterous.

Iran is guilty for their own actions.

Deal with it.

And flat out false, any way you slice it. No comparison, none.

Denial

There is a clear, long running conspiracy, as has been shown over and over again in this thread and so many others that Iran is being setup by spooks, just the same way as all the other countries that have already BEEN spooked.

Take a deep breath, step away from the keyboard. Go for a walk. Talk to some people in the real world. Regain a grip on reality and come back and we'll talk like grown ups.

Heck, even one of the ATS staff is trying to find proof that Iran has enriched beyond 20%, and is having a tough time. Our own intelligence estimates cleared them, and they sure have complied nearly perfectly with the IAEA, while Israel sits there with a middle finger for anyone that even dare ask about their nuclear capabilities

Iran signed the NPT Isreal hasnt.

Hypocrisy plastered all over their face for all the world to see. That's why I don't respect Israel, and I resent their over abundant influence on our government, not to mention the gobbling up of my tax dollars.

How old are you?

I mean really. This is the exact same argument a 5 year old make.

"But but but but ........Timmy has one!

I want one too! Or I'll take my ball [Close the Straits) and go home!"

This thread is getting needlessly overcomplicated by those who just can't handle the truth.

The truth is what frustrating many here because it keeps being exposed and discussed. Hey if you didn't want to deal with it then why post it in the first place?

Oh yeah.

Remember.

"When The Power Of Love Overcomes The Love Of power, The World Will Know Peace,"

- Jimi Hendrix

edit on 11-8-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

"When The Power Of Love Overcomes The Love Of power, The World Will Know Peace,"

- Jimi Hendrix

Ok so all that was to say that you won't answer the question?

As far as I knew guilt didn't have levels. You are either guilty or you aren't. The rest is a strawman argument because again, no where in this thread or anywhere else can you find anything from my that says I don't believe that Iran is the focus of a setup. In fact I partially believe it to be true. But see that's honesty.

But this, I have to question...

Originally posted by TrueAmerican



Heck, even one of the ATS staff is trying to find proof that Iran has enriched beyond 20%,

Is that in reference to me? Because I challenge you here and now to find any post of mine on ATS that has me comment to this regard anywhere on ATS. Just one post. If you are lucky you might find one that I comment about Iran Nuclear program but I doubt it.

reply to post by GAOTU789


No, it wasn't in reference to you.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Alright, I retract my challenge although feel free. It's a a waste of your time though.

I have no bearing the what other staff do or don't think or post.

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Iran will never close the strait because USA will never attack Iran and will exempt important countries from it's oil and bank sanctions. WHY!?
because these sanctions may lead to billion dollars to be exchanged not in dollars !

edit on 11-8-2012 by maes2 because: (no reason given)

Iran will only close the Strait...or rather ATTEMPT to close the Strait of Hormuz in the event that the Old Religious Guard finds itself in the position of BEING REMOVED FROM POWER BY IT'S OWN PEOPLE. The attempting of closing of the Strait...which Iran does not have the ability to Militarily do...would be a last ditch effort to attempt to unite the Iranian Population against an Invading Force...which in this case would be the actions of the U.S. Fifth Fleet as it would never allow the Strait to be closed.

The U.S. plan is to WAIT. We are waiting for the Iranian People to remove their Murderous Regime. The U.S. has the Military ability to...with minimum bloodshed...seize all Iranian Nuclear Sites. This would require the use of some VERY SECRET WEAPONRY...but it is not so Secret anymore and it would be preferable to drop Non-Nuclear EMP's rather than OBLITERATE a bunch of Iranian KIDS who have been conscripted into the Iranian Military. This is why direct U.S. Military/ Iranian Military Talks on a Secret Level are so important. As in IRAQ...the Iranian Military Leadership is not so stupid as to think that they have any chance of fighting the U.S. Military and hopefully...there may be a deal already in place...just in case the Old Religious Guard orders their Military to perform acts that are akin to SUICIDE. Split Infinity

reply to post by SLAYER69

Iran is guilty for their own actions. Deal with it.

Whatever those actions are as self defense from the oppressive threatening actions of the USA. You cannot hit or threaten someone and expect them to sit by idly.

Iran signed the NPT Isreal hasnt.

So if Iran withdrew you would be fine with it right? Do you know how many treaties the USA has signed but does not follow? Do you know the Geneva conventions violating torture? Guess what we violated it.

As I have stated in this post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Your post did not disprove anything that I stated:

Yes Iran is the sole reason why the US is in the region. Get over it. Had the US wanted Iran gone it would have happened a long time ago. Bush and Co would have found some sort of bogus excuse and way of blaming 9/11 on them and would have taken them out. Why didn't they attack Iran when the US still had over 250,000 troops right next door?

Iran is ONE of the reasons the US is in the region. The US did not attack iran because of its neighbors were there, they had to take out the lesser countries first, and for this reason (one of many) Syria is being targeted by Clinton because of its close relations with Iran

I guess you haven't thoroughly read through the thread. Numerous posters in too numerous replies have admitted and not denied US/Western activities. Now drop your doughnut and admit so has Iran.

Fair enough, but US has a higher contribution and more meddling in the middle east than Iran has over in the Americas

How old are you? I mean really. This is the exact same argument a 5 year old make. "But but but but ........Timmy has one! I want one too! Or I'll take my ball [Close the Straits) and go home!"

Kinda like when you start blabbing about how this thread only has 140 stars.. Or when the USA says that Iran cant have nukes but uses it themselves, or when USA condemns human rights violations in Iran/China but funds Israel. Iran has a right to attempt to close the straits if they are threatened.

So has Iran. Remember you yourself once said "One man's terrorists are another man's liberators" I guess that only applies when it's in your favor eh?

But USA has supplied THE MOST WEAPONS to terrorists and is therefore a bigger cause of regional turmoil in the middle east. Iran doing its local bidding was never a problem for the world, but USA interference in the ME is global and has now affected just about every corner of the world. The Iranian funding of weapons is mostly regional and local, whereas the USA supplies weapons not locally but outside the region specifically for the purpose of ousting Iran among many other things and Iran is not a US neighbor. When Iran supplies weapons it is not giving them to Canada or Mexico to cause turmoil.

Bold face lie. But, I can see how one who ignores facts would see it that way. Bottom line Iran is responsible for their own actions just like everybody else on the planet.

You have yet to disprove that it is a lie. Iran is not responsible for actions that it has to do in response to US interference and aggressions. Get over it.

Yet they'll support train and supply certain groups who attack US interests and allies.

US interests as in oil and Israel? Iran was there before the USA and was funding whatever way before and had an interest in Palestine longer than the existence of israel, just because USA and UN declare an area 'Israel' does not mean Iran has to stop funding whatever it needs to.

Like it or not it threatens a US Allie and it's own interests. Just like Iran supports Syria because it's in THEIR interest to do so. Pot meet Kettle

'Israel' is not a US ally. Secondly the USA is an empire and now it is meeting local resistance. US interests should remain local and not spread halfway around the world. I would be happy to pay 10 dollars a gallon if it meant drilling locally. What do you not understand. Iran is an local neighbor of syria, but the US is not a local neighbor of any of the middle eastern countries and that Israel is an ally is an excuse to just be there.

Go back and reread who appointed whom first.

Go back and see which country interfered with Iranian affairs in the 1950s

NOW historical accuracy and context are at play?

Context is that the USA has the most meddling out of any nation, and things such as 911 were a result of that

ETA I'll be back in bit. I have to that whole "Earn a living thing"

your not the only one here who has a job[

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Whatever those actions are as self defense .....You cannot hit or threaten someone and expect them to sit by idly.

We talking Iran or Israel here?

So if Iran withdrew you would be fine with it right?

It seems to have worked for North Korea and we all know how much their neighbors just love them for it too.

As I have stated in this post:
Your post did not disprove anything that I stated:

Fair enough. Neither have you proved what you stated either.

Iran is ONE of the reasons the US is in the region. The US did not attack iran because of its neighbors were there, they had to take out the lesser countries first, and for this reason (one of many) Syria is being targeted by Clinton because of its close relations with Iran

According to Wikileaks [Apparently only believable when it shows the US./West in a bad light] Revealed that many of Iran's neighbor have repeatedly asked the US to take Iran out . Yet the US has refused.

Realize that Iran isn't all that.

No, It really isn't.

Fair enough, but US has a higher contribution and more meddling in the middle east than Iran has over in the Americas

True but the US does not threaten the closing of the Strait [which is crucial to the global economy] whenever somebody farts in a foxhole

Iran has a right to attempt to close the straits if they are threatened.

You got that right.

They can "Attempt"

But USA has supplied THE MOST WEAPONS to terrorists and is therefore a bigger cause of regional turmoil in the middle east.

BS

That's why you almost always see them with an AK-47/AK-74 or an RPG.


Get real

Iran doing its local bidding was never a problem for the world,

Except if they try to carry through on their almost weekly threat to close the strait. Then it's the whole world's business and that includes the US.

but USA interference in the ME is global and has now affected just about every corner of the world.

Unlike Iran [which wants to be a major regional power] the US is a Global power and looks out for the global economy. Unlike Iran which wants to dominate the Persian Gulf area and has many issues with regional rival religious sects.

The Iranian funding of weapons is mostly regional and local, whereas the USA supplies weapons not locally but outside the region specifically for the purpose of ousting Iran among many other things

If true then why hasn't it already happened? Why has the US not done so since 1979 when Iran took all them hostages?

You have yet to disprove that it is a lie. Iran is not responsible for actions that it has to do in response to US interference and aggressions. Get over it.

You haven't proved a damned thing either. No matter how hard you want to sidestep, deny or justify.
Iran is accountable for their own actions.

US interests as in oil and Israel? Iran was there before the USA and was funding whatever way before and had an interest in Palestine longer than the existence of israel, just because USA and UN declare an area 'Israel' does not mean Iran has to stop funding whatever it needs to.

Pot meet Kettle

'Israel' is not a US ally. Secondly the USA is an empire and now it is meeting local resistance. US interests should remain local and not spread halfway around the world. I would be happy to pay 10 dollars a gallon if it meant drilling locally. What do you not understand. Iran is an local neighbor of syria, but the US is not a local neighbor of any of the middle eastern countries and that Israel is an ally is an excuse to just be there.

Syria was an excuse for Iran to be there too...?

Right?

Goes both ways...

Go back and see which country interfered with Iranian affairs in the 1950s

Sure, The Soviets, the US and a few others

I believe at the very moment that the U.S. and Russia figured out the awesome power of the big bombs, they should've come together and forbid anyone in the world from ever possessing that power and enforce it hardcore. How did Pakistan get'em? India? Israel? Japan? China? and many others? It should have never been allowed, and now, we are all at the mercy of these bad decisions. If Iran says it's not making nukes, then fine. They need to abide and allow weapons inspectors in all the time. If they ever betray the world and make nuclear weapons, then all countries should move in and take them away. At the same time, Israel has to allow weapons inspectors in. In my opinion, Israel seems to be the agressor of the middle-east.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by GAOTU789

As for the rest of your post, the one thing I will disagree with is this. As far as Iran internally, I don't care about most of what happens but I do care that they don't have the ability to choose freely how governs them. If they had the choice and still choose a theocratic form of government, than that wouldn't matter to me either. At least then the peoples of Iran could say we choose this freely and are satisfied. I'm not a fan of tyranny or oppression where ever it is found.

edit on 11-8-2012 by GAOTU789 because: (no reason given)

Don't get me wrong - I can understand your frustration with that. Some things one see just make you shake your head and grit your teeth - and try to find ways to "fix" it. There arre some parallels that can be drawn between interpersonal situations and international ones. it's just a matter of scale, rather than substance. One of those things is willpower. Just as you can't liberate a battered woman from an abusive situation until SHE decides it's time to go, one cannot liberate a country until the population decides it's time for change. It has to come from within.

Until that reaches critical mass, all we can do is stand and grit our teeth. Sending in the pot-stirrers prematurely only creates more tension and recriminations, and we get what we have now.

Saying that "i don't care" as I did isn't strictly correct, but I wouldn't interfere until there is a critical mass of opinion to work with there. THEY have to make that decision first for themselves. Until then, all we can do is attempt to maintain a friendly footing with the People, keep communication open, and let them know that should they want help, it's available, but isn't coming unless that's what they really want.