Watch what happens when Guns are banned in Australia

Originally posted by Unrealised

Originally posted by bellagirl

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by 13th Zodiac

 

I live in the state of Massachusetts in the United States in a small town where just about everyone owns several types of Guns. Rifles, Shotguns, Hand Guns and Rifles such as AR-15's and AK's.

We have very little crime and what crime we do have is trivial in it's level of violence....because EVERYONE IS ARMED!

Taking away GUNS from Citizens who own them legally as well as use them legally and for Hunting as well as Defense or Target Shooting Hobbies is just plain CRIMINAL as far as a Government forcing people to give up their weapons.

All this does is allow Criminals to be the ones with Firearms. Split Infinity

i too live in a small town...near a big city in australia.

We have very little crime and what crime we do have is trivial in it's level of violence....because no one IS ARMED!

this means that when i am walking home from the pub on a saturday night and i might want to "cop a squat"..no one is going to pull out a magnum and shoot me because they think im about to rob their house.

Exactly.

All these Americans here saying "Oh, but your population and crime percentage means that your crime rate is the same as ours, if not over."

Americans have no idea about Australia. Our Country is so different from theirs, it isn't even funny.



Sure, there may be the odd shooting once or twice a month, and it makes the news because it's a rarity.


When I worked for Statewide Mortuary Transfers, you know how many gun-murdered people I picked up?



One.





One dead man in 3 years, and I worked 6 days a week, on call 24 hours.





Come to Australia and live a happy life.


Trust me, all this sensationalist rubbish about us Australians having no rights because our guns got taken away, so what?


If you have troubles with guns then you have troubles with criminals, which means you have troubles with your police force, which means your Government is the problem.

9 years in a major sydney trauma emergency department....i have seen 2 gunshot victims.

reply to post by links234


You might want to check your math.

It the US has 15 times the population of AUS but only 10 times the crime, then the US is safer.

Just my opinion.

reply to post by EvillerBob


I'm a little confused or I think you misunderstood my post or replied to the wrong person. You said in 1981, handguns and semi auto rifles were still legal for civilian ownership. In 1981 there were 8 . than after the ban it increased numerously? so it sounds like you are for gun ownership as well?

FYI, I'm not for banning guns, I'm for gun ownership. its crazy to ban guns since it would give a serious advantage to criminals (Hint: criminals are people that break the law, and will most likely keep or continue to buy guns while the law abiding citizens won't).

My post was in reference to another poster who appeared to indicate that the data showing how violent crimes increased in Australia after the ban did not apply to the USA as they are different according to him . I asked him why wouldn't it, and why isn't an American criminal the same as any other criminal (breaks the law)?

Originally posted by interupt42
reply to post by EvillerBob

 

I'm a little confused or I think you misunderstood my post or replied to the wrong person.

I confuse people easily, it's one of my few talents. I may not have intended to reply to you specifically, I think I was throwing what I considered to be an interesting fact into the debate.

For the record I have no problem whatsoever with gun ownership though I think people who are convicted of serious offences should have the right removed.

one of the main reasons many on here are stateing they wont give up their guns is so they can defend their country in a revolution. government control etc etc. doesnt this strike you as confusing ???.
you are a democracy. YOU vote in your government. YOU can vote your government out. isnt this why many of your soldiers have died on foreign battlegrounds and countries....to bring democracy to the world???

i cant imagine living in a country that is so frightened of their government. and how many complaining about the government actually voted in the last election ???

Originally posted by bellagirl

9 years in a major sydney trauma emergency department....i have seen 2 gunshot victims.

I find that intriguing. I understand that handguns are still available for target shooters in Australia so legal ownership, while restricted, is still possible.

Your figure would suggest that it is possible for guns to be legally held by civilians without the community breaking down into a frenzied, murderous bloodbath. I can almost sense some of the posters in this thread frothing at the mouth at that kind of heretical suggestion

reply to post by EvillerBob



No worries , and it looks like we have the same stance on the issue.

Also the information you provided was useful and demonstrates another region that had the the same trend when guns were banned.

Originally posted by bellagirl
one of the main reasons many on here are stateing they wont give up their guns is so they can defend their country in a revolution.

The revolution argument for the US members is actually a really, really interesting one for a number of reasons that might take this thread off at a tangent. I fully support the argument that the idea behind the fabled US second amendment was to ensure that the "people" were guaranteed to have the equipment to revolt if it ever became necessary. As such, while I am not personally on board with the idea of revolution I can appreciate and understand why some people would choose to cite that as their reason.

My personal reasons are far less interesting. I believe that I am an adult and capable of making my own decisions. Until such time as I prove myself unable to make good decisions (ie following conviction or mental health issues) I believe that if I choose to own a firearm, a lawnmower or a Dolly Parton CD, I should be left in peace to do so regardless of what the curtain-twitching Mrs. Miggens across the road thinks.

In my 25-odd years of owning firearms I've managed to avoid shooting anyone. The guns don't whisper to me from the safe. When I pick them up they don't possess me. They are bits of metal and wood that I point at a target and they shoot when I choose to pull the trigger. I enjoy my hobby of reloading and working up loads, shooting targets and shooting the breeze at the range with friends, club comps and so on and so forth.

In return, I have subjected myself to far greater police scrutiny than Mrs. Miggens could ever imagine. In fact, between me and Mrs. Miggens, only one of us actually has a piece of paper signed by a senior police officer to say we are respectable, trustworthy members of the community. I'll give you a clue - it's not her. In fact I have a few bits of paper that say this because of my occupation but only one of them lets me own firearms.

Fancy that. I have had my life scrutinised in detail and I have been found to be trustworthy and respectable, yet someone who has never been subject to that level of investigation considers themself to be qualified to say what I can and can't be trusted to do. A meaner man would suggest that possibly it should be the other way around. But I digress.

Guns can be used to kill. They can be used for sport. They can be used for hunting or shooting bits of paper from a long way away. How they are used is determined by the person - and the person who wishes ill will to others will find a way to do so with or without a firearm. If the amount of effort put into gun control was instead put into fixing the existing criminal justice system then the world would be a much, much better and safer place, without any further firearms restrictions needed.

Originally posted by EvillerBob

Originally posted by bellagirl

9 years in a major sydney trauma emergency department....i have seen 2 gunshot victims.

I find that intriguing. I understand that handguns are still available for target shooters in Australia so legal ownership, while restricted, is still possible.

Your figure would suggest that it is possible for guns to be legally held by civilians without the community breaking down into a frenzied, murderous bloodbath. I can almost sense some of the posters in this thread frothing at the mouth at that kind of heretical suggestion

hand on heart...its the truth. i have seen 2 people come in with gunshot wounds. and they were not "innocent victims". they were involved in criminal activities with other dodgy people.

maybe 30 - 40 stab wounds.....again...most involved in criminal activity. car accident injuries - too many too count. mental illness - too many to count.....old blokes falling of ladders with chain saws while trimming trees in spring...bloody heaps.

Originally posted by bellagirl
hand on heart...its the truth. i have seen 2 people come in with gunshot wounds. and they were not "innocent victims". they were involved in criminal activities with other dodgy people.

maybe 30 - 40 stab wounds.....again...most involved in criminal activity. car accident injuries - too many too count. mental illness - too many to count.....old blokes falling of ladders with chain saws while trimming trees in spring...bloody heaps.

Oh I entirely believe you, don't worry. I am actually very glad of your input because it highlights a very important point - people own handguns and the world doesn't turn into the wild west with bullet-ridden bodies left, right and centre. If people are going to hurt each other they are going to do so with whatever tool is at hand, and to be honest the greatest danger in life comes from our own actions and accidents.

reply to post by EvillerBob





if only all those that owned guns were like you there wouldnt be a problem. you have to admit it is pretty frightening when you read some of the posts involving gun talk on ats that some of these people have guns.

i know many people with guns as i live near farms. i often hear farmers at night with shotguns shooting the fox's.

i can just imagine a small country pub here in australia with two blokes sitting at the bar having a conversation.

american - i pack a magnum on my hip to defend myself against criminals and the government,
aussie - i have a shotgun.
american - so you too agree with the constitution the right to bare arms and too shoot any god damn bastard who comes to take what you own.
aussie - no mate, worse than that...to shoot those bloody brown snakes! rhahahahah

Originally posted by bellagirl

if only all those that owned guns were like you there wouldnt be a problem. you have to admit it is pretty frightening when you read some of the posts involving gun talk on ats that some of these people have guns.

The vast majority are, that's the thing. I bet the two gunshot victims you met weren't shot with legally held firearms either. The only people significantly affected by gun control are the people who aren't likely to cause a problem in the first place. The dangerous people will have guns if they want them regardless of what the law says.

As for some of the talk, there is a cultural divide that has to be acknowledged. The US carved out its country at gunpoint through a revolution. The idea of self reliance and "standing up" for beliefs is far stronger there than many other places. Like I said earlier, while I don't follow some of the beliefs I can understand they stem from a different context to mine, or ours if you don't mind me being inclusive.

Some people... yeah some people are just a bit nuts of course, but I think there is an awful lot of bluster in the world from people who would be perfectly reasonable in real life. Again, the people who will be nuts will be nuts with whatever tool comes to hand and there are many things that scare me far more than firearms.

If anyone tries to ban and collect guns from lawful gun owners in the US they will have a revolution on their hands.

Originally posted by mal1970

Fact: Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership

Fact? Hahaha. Do you live in Australia? Do you have a firearms license in Australia?

I do. And, I do.

I currently have 2 shotguns, 2 .22's, a 30-30 rifle, 303 carbine, and a few other rifles.

If I wanted to I could cause one hell of a mess, but obviously I'm not going to.. cos I don't shoot humans. And I'm not crazy.

It took me half a day to get my license, with absolutely no pre-requisites, other than money to pay the fee's. Whilst at my course I would say that most of the IQ's would range in about the 80-90 zone, and, eventually, every person passed the written part of the course. What I'm saying is it's easy to get a firearm if you desire to in Australia.

I don't see how you got the information that we have "virtually banned all guns". That video looks like it's from 2 decades ago, and they are talking about semi-auto weaponary. We still are allowed to have semi-auto shotguns, all you need is to be a "primary producer". And that is not hard to get either.

So which cops are going to go into Compton, East Baltimore, East Oakland, Hunters Point, Flint or a host of other crime ridden areas and take all the guns away from the gang bangers? I mean, if we're serious about ridding this country of guns, that's where you'd start, right? Not middle and upper class neighborhoods where people with no criminal records enjoy target and skit shooting, right?

Getting rid of guns simply will not work. The people who would turn them in are the law abiding citizens, and the people who actually want them to commit crimes will still have them, as they usually don't have them legally in the first place. This just leaves more potential law abiding victims as potential victims without protection. The whole idea is flawed.

Which classes of people do more harm with guns? Cops, gang bangers or skit shooters/gun collectors? The idea of taking guns off the streets does nothing to disarm cops or gang bangers, which are the ones we hear most about going over the line while armed. And if you're crazy enough to want an arsenal to shoot up a movie theater, there's plenty of other ways to stock your arsenal than going to your local KMart.

Originally posted by hawkiye
They can place all the bans they want in the US and a few will hand them over but the vast majority will not and if they try and take them by force then it will be the second American civil war simple as that we know it and they know it. So they will just continue to nickle and dime us to death and try and indoctrinate our children to being against guns it won't work its not working.

Want war in America just try and take the guns on a massive scale like they did in Australia...

I think talking revolution and what would happen on the ground are two different things, imagine an Abrams Tank with 20 Kelvar Outfitted Full auto m16a2 wearing trained Black Berets knocking on your door and you would hand over everything you got mate. Its all good to talk up some kind of resistance but in reality look what happened to Ed and Elaine brown trying to resist the US government and they called for help and got nothing. Then look at Waco.

Want war in America just try and take the guns on a massive scale like they did in Australia...

I think talking revolution and what would happen on the ground are two different things, imagine an Abrams Tank with 20 Kelvar Outfitted Full auto m16a2 wearing trained Black Berets knocking on your door and you would hand over everything you got mate. Its all good to talk up some kind of resistance but in reality look what happened to Ed and Elaine brown trying to resist the US government and they called for help and got nothing. Then look at Waco.

That wont stop Americans.

Originally posted by knightrider078


Want war in America just try and take the guns on a massive scale like they did in Australia...

That's the thing, those who will willingly turn their guns are the people we need to worry least about. Middle and upper class neighborhoods are not the problems.

However, I don't care what kind of artillery and armor you show up with in East Oakland, the gang bangers are not going to come out and simply hand in their guns. So unless the cops are willing to go house to house, gun battle after gun battle, in the neighborhoods which gangs run, and where they sometimes will shoot a cop just for getting pulled over, which there are plenty of, the whole topic of restricting gun rights doesn't even make sense.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy

Drugs and guns are hardly the same thing; do you know anybody who has a "gun addiction?" How can you even make this comparison? X has been banned and failed so therefore Y must aswell?

 

Prohibition is prohibition it doesn't matter what it is it has never worked and never will it has nothing to do with addiction. People who want something illegal have always been able to get if they so desired the comparison is completely valid accurate assesment of how well gun prohibition would work.

Why even bother banning anything, it didn't work with drogz!!! IT DIDN'T WURK WITH DRAWGZZZ!!!!!!! 

LOL you try to mock the argument but in your ignorance you speak truth and don't even know it. there is no sense in banning anything because it has never prevented criminals from accessing anything they want.

Why would there be a large demand for guns if they were made illegal? Please, tell me why a normal citizen who doesn't feel the need to kill people would go out of his or her way to purchase a gun illegally? Outlawing drugs generates revenue for the state, likely more than it would generate if drugs were legalized, regulated, and taxed by the govt. 

Less citizens may decide get guns if that were true however it would not prevent criminals or anyone who wants one from getting them and many citizens would be motivated to get them for self protection anyway. Would you prefer to walk some street in say the Bronx or any High crime area in the country armed or disarmed? Disarming honest citizens will not stop gun violence.

Furthermore, most drugs don't have a high fatality rate granted they are not abused. Guns, on the other hand, do.

That is complete and utter BS! Guns have one of the lowest fatality rates in the country. Stop believing the complete utter BS hype that there is an epidemic of gun violence and do some research it is a complete lie. Doctors kill far more people then guns, Cars I believe are he number one killer guns aren't even on the radar compared to them. Furthermore armed citizens stop more crime then all law enforcement in the country combined to the tune of over 2 millions incidents a year.

The point is that if you outlaw guns you will prevent many needless deaths. Let's say a husband finds out his wife is cheating on him; in a fit of rage, he takes his gun and shoots her. Had he not owned a gun, he would likely have had to resort to much less effective means of killing his wife, and may have had more time to think through his actions. Thus, a life could be saved. 

More complete BS anti-gun rhetoric! Your scenario is so rare it is negligible compared to other killers like doctors cars etc. As I said above Guns prevent millions of crimes a year many of them which would have resulted in needless deaths. Take them away and needless deaths will increase.

There is really not much of an argument for gun ownership in the states other than, "BAW BAW BAW I WANT MY GUNZ BAW BAW BAW!!!" If we are to have guns, every citizen should be subject to years of mandatory fire arms training and education, and upon completion every citizen should be assigned a rifle and a side arm by the state. To allow idiots to legally own guns is the epitome of moronic.

Wow the brain washing is strong with this one. Yeah guns are not good for anything oh except winning and preserving freedom, preventing government totalitarianism, stopping Nazi world domination, preventing millions of crimes a year and protecting people in self defense especially against rape.

you know the 97% of women attacked who are armed prevent their attack and kill or bring to justice their attacker? On the other hand 97% of women attacked who are unarmed end of raped or dead or both! Which odds would you prefer the women in your family to have? The epitome of moronic is spouting anti-gun BS without examining the facts and allowing idiots to disarm us!