Watch what happens when Guns are banned in Australia

Eventually, maybe even one hundred years from now, we may not even wage war.

And to think it only took thousands of years to get there. Hah. Cain killed Abel with a gun????

Originally posted by Unrealised
I don't want my children or any member of my family-to-be affected by any sort of violence.

Weapons in the hands of the general public is a stupid idea, and is proven to be so every single day.

The emerging system is a good thing. It is going to give our upcoming societies structure and normality, not to mention safety.

Who cares if you love guns? Who cares if it is in your constitution? Your fore-fathers didn't expect the kind of degraded and failed society you have borne, and would be deeply ashamed of you.

I appreciate your idealism but I would suggest it is entirely misplaced.

Your family is very, very unlikely to be visited by violence due to the legal possession of firearms. If you are affected by violence then in 99.9% of the cases it will be caused by immoral opportunistic scum. The kind of people who probably couldn't legally own firearms anyway.

I deal with these people on a regular basis. They are not violent because they have weapons, they are violent because they consider that you are sufficiently weak or they are sufficiently strong. In some cases the trigger is that you have something that they want. In some cases the trigger is nothing more than "because they can." Sometimes the trigger will simply never be known.

We are raising a generation to believe there is no personal responsibility, to believe there are no real repercussions. There is no danger in their behaviour so there will never be a reason to modify it. They have no interest or regard in hippy claptrap other than to mark you down as docile beta. Their behaviour is based entirely on what is in their best interests and playing by the rules (thereby avoiding punishment) is no longer in their best interests. Our society is not being degraded and failed by computer games and trips to the range, it is being degraded and failed by the people with all the best intentions who think everyone in the world would think like them if only they get enough love and hugs.

The world is a big scary place and your idea of safety and civilisation is entirely based on the premises that everyone agrees to play by the rules. Guess what - the rules already say not to commit murder or steal and people ignore those rules every day. What safety and civility you have, you have because it is enforced against that feral minority at gunpoint. Whether you see it or not, admit it or not, wish it or not, that is how the world works.

Yes it would be lovely to live in a world where we can leave our houses unlocked and our cars with the keys in the ignition. It doesn't matter if 99% of people agree, all it takes it the opportunistic 1% and the idealism crumbles.

Originally posted by Gridrebel
I hear bats and golf clubs are pretty destructive as well. Let's ban them all, cars too. God knows, cars kill people. Idiocy at it's finest.

Aye, cars kill many more people than guns.

Then again. People have a use for cars. Apart from killing people, what's the point of a gun?

Originally posted by AndyMayhew

Originally posted by Gridrebel
I hear bats and golf clubs are pretty destructive as well. Let's ban them all, cars too. God knows, cars kill people. Idiocy at it's finest.

Aye, cars kill many more people than guns.

Then again. People have a use for cars. Apart from killing people, what's the point of a gun?

Why aren't they calling to ban archery?

Originally posted by EvillerBob


We are raising a generation to believe there is no personal responsibility, to believe there are no real repercussions.

Exactly my point.


We are raising them that way.


Let's all pat ourselves on the back.

reply to post by EvillerBob


We can't ban archery because we need to be able to shoot a Welshmen

Something us Brits do every Sunday. It's a tradition,

reply to post by Unrealised


our fore fathers witness a massacre involving firearms

www.bostonmassacre.net...

knowing the damage that fire arms could do they made sure that good upstanding citizens would always have they right to protect themselves from evil men. So don't try and speak of our forefathers you obviously know nothing about them. Get over yourself and stop trying to disarm everyone, it aint happening.

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
reply to post by Unrealised

 

our fore fathers witness a massacre involving firearms

www.bostonmassacre.net...

knowing the damage that fire arms could do they made sure that good upstanding citizens would always have they right to protect themselves from evil men.

And since then, such massacres have not occurred. Right?

............ oh ........

reply to post by AndyMayhew


and if guns get banned there will never be another massacre, right?

and before there were guns no one ever got massacred right?

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

and if guns get banned there will never be another massacre, right?

and before there were guns no one ever got massacred right?

edit on 8-8-2012 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)

For the billionth time:





Educate our children and their children, and build a better world.



We have a global community now, and things are changing.




Change along with it, or be left behind, sad, out-dated and devolving by the day.

reply to post by Unrealised


you can educate children as much as you want, violence will still always be, just as evil men will always be, and the use of violence by evil men will effect our educated children, always. I suggest you stop living in a dream world were everyone craps butterflies as they run through the fields together holding hands and listening to enya. If we lose are government given right to protect our self against the evil men and women in this world, it will be a dark time for humanity worse than it is now,

if you want to teach your kids something try teaching them morals, history, proper health practices,tolerance,diplomacy, and gun safety and maintenance.

please don't teach them your alternate reality that will never be.

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by mal1970

 

Let's see here, according to the Australian Institute of Criminology there were 253 murders in Australia in 2007. According to the CDC there were 16,799 homicides in the United States the same year. That's 66 times less than the US.

In 2003, fewer than 16% of homicides involved firearms in Australia.

There were 176,427 recorded assaults in Australia in 2007. In America the number was 1.8 million. That's 10 times less than the US.

There were 19,781 recorded sexual assaults in Australia in 2007. The United States recorded 203,830 sexual assaults in 2008. That's 10 times less than the US.

In 2007 the population of the US was 301 million, in Australia the population was 21 million. That's 14 times less than the US.

Overall, you're safer in Australia than you are in the United States.

Ok so let me get this straight. You have 14% less population than the US but only 10% less crime. That doesn't seem safer to me, just going on the math here. Wouldn't that mean MORE crime. Much smaller population yet only a slightly lower crime rate than the US. Hmmmm........let me ponder this one a while, because maybe I'm missing something.

peace


I'd rather see the per capita rates because with the population difference, whole numbers don't mean a lot.

Originally posted by just_julie
Australia and USA are very very different countries.

Yes, but criminals in the USA are the same in Australia and in the rest of the world.

Criminal like the odds in their favor and are willing to break the law to their advantage. How would criminals act differently in the USA versus Australia if a Gun Ban was implemented?

Originally posted by Unrealised

For the billionth time:

Educate our children and their children, and build a better world.

We have a global community now, and things are changing.

Change along with it, or be left behind, sad, out-dated and devolving by the day.

Alas, while you're busy educating your children, those "sad, out-dated and devolving" people will be using old-fashioned violence to take what they want and stamp their authority all over your docile emasculated society. The only reason it hasn't already happened is because another group of "sad, out-dated and devolving" people are standing between you and the bad guys. Head out to East St. Louis and tell them about this global community that is going to make them into nice people

Your approach may well breed Utopia. It can also breed ghetto. It all depends on what the person wants to take from it. How does your Utopia propose to deal with the people who choose ghetto? This isn't an academic argument, by the way, it's one founded on very real situations already occuring in many first world countries. If you can solve it now you might very well change the course of human history.

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by just_julie
Australia and USA are very very different countries.

Yes, but criminals in the USA are the same in Australia and in the rest of the world.

Criminal like the odds in their favor and are willing to break the law to their advantage. How would criminals act differently in the USA versus Australia if a Gun Ban was implemented?

In fact let's do a little comparison with the UK, where handguns are banned so noone can ever be hurt by mean nasty handguns ever again.

In 1981, handguns and semi auto rifles were still legal for civilian ownership. In 1981 there were 8 handgun-related deaths. My apologies but I cannot find my citation for this, I will add it later when I track it down.

In 2010, handguns and semi auto rifles had been out of civilian hands for more than a decade, as your Utopia would demand. There were 40 homicides - 12995 incidents involving firearms, of which 2574 incidents involved using a firearm to harm or threaten, of which 40 were homicides - of which 28 were committed using handguns.

www.gun-control-network.org...

In fact, the figures in that link show that in 2001 there were 5874 incidents involving handguns. Not imitations (which have a seperate category) but actual handguns. The ones that were already banned.

It seems the government never sees the other side of the issue. You can look at it as depriving regular citizens of firearms, because criminals will get the regardless, or you can look at it as the government depriving regular citizens of the means of defense.

I tell you what, the second somebody thinks they have the right to strip me of my defensive rights, is the second that somebody better be defending themselves. I won't go down without a fight, and I won't shut up unless someone permanently shuts me up.

Every human being on the face of this planet has a right to protect them and their families. The things they own and their own way of life.

Gun control, as said by many, won't deter crime. It won't make us feel safer. It won't support the economy, teach our children valuable lessons, or get rid of our nightmares.

It will be war.

reply to post by hawkiye


Drugs and guns are hardly the same thing; do you know anybody who has a "gun addiction?" How can you even make this comparison? X has been banned and failed so therefore Y must aswell?

Why even bother banning anything, it didn't work with drogz!!! IT DIDN'T WURK WITH DRAWGZZZ!!!!!!!

Why would there be a large demand for guns if they were made illegal? Please, tell me why a normal citizen who doesn't feel the need to kill people would go out of his or her way to purchase a gun illegally? Outlawing drugs generates revenue for the state, likely more than it would generate if drugs were legalized, regulated, and taxed by the govt.

Furthermore, most drugs don't have a high fatality rate granted they are not abused. Guns, on the other hand, do. The point is that if you outlaw guns you will prevent many needless deaths. Let's say a husband finds out his wife is cheating on him; in a fit of rage, he takes his gun and shoots her. Had he not owned a gun, he would likely have had to resort to much less effective means of killing his wife, and may have had more time to think through his actions. Thus, a life could be saved.

There is really not much of an argument for gun ownership in the states other than, "BAW BAW BAW I WANT MY GUNZ BAW BAW BAW!!!" If we are to have guns, every citizen should be subject to years of mandatory fire arms training and education, and upon completion every citizen should be assigned a rifle and a side arm by the state. To allow idiots to legally own guns is the epitome of moronic.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
Guns, on the other hand, do. The point is that if you outlaw guns you will prevent many needless deaths. Let's say a husband finds out his wife is cheating on him; in a fit of rage, he takes his gun and shoots her. Had he not owned a gun, he would likely have had to resort to much less effective means of killing his wife, and may have had more time to think through his actions. Thus, a life could be saved.

I appreciate the argument that you make but I would disagree. For somebody who finds that they are at the point of killing, everything and anything can be a weapon and in many cases fists and feet are all that are needed. Besides, nearly everything in your house could probably be a weapon in desperate or angry hands.

There is a significant threat in terms of volume, however. A gunman can walk into a room and open fire. The issue here is that such acts do not seem to be acts of impulse. That person had decided to kill at that scale. I would suggest that without guns another tool would have been found. While the Mumbai attackers used firearms, for example, the London attackers used explosives.

Preventing needless deaths? Please tell me how banning guns will prevent needless deaths from happening.
In your scenario, the man, in his fit of rage would most likely still kill the wife. And if not, whose to say that the wife doesn't get back at the husband while he's sleeping, with a knife? Sounds like a needless death to me. Well prevented, i might add.

Anything can be used as a killing tool. It takes the basics of human anatomy, and force.

Why people feel the need to ban things they are afraid of, is beyond me. \

There already are classes one must take to conceal weapons, but honestly I think classes should be a requirement to own a gun. And signing a paper stating that if you do kill or harm with the gun, and it's in no way self defense, that you will be punished to the full extent of the law. I feel as if that would deter gun buying by the guy who has malevolent thoughts in mind when buying a gun.

Banning things is not a solution at all. It's placing that topic on the backburner to stew, and the way our government is, it will be left to boil over and become a massive mess. Instead of banning materials, we should incorporate classes into public school to educate the safety practices. There are loads of classes we can get rid of to make room for these. I wont go into detail, unless asked to, but this would surely be a start of a better option than simply banning something and thinking the effect will be great.

When you rob people of their human rights, they tend to get mad. When a person is mad, they tend to think irrationally and quickly, often resulting in a morally bad action.

Hell, you could even create jobs by opening mass amounts of gun safety shops. You go in to take required classes by the trained professionals whose only job is to teach gun safety. They would do that every day, and they could pass or fail people based on attentiveness, amount of effort put in.

Of course all this would take quite a bit of effort by humans, and it doesn't give them much instantly or without much delay. hahaha. ha. ha.