Dear Christians of the Silent Minority...

I commend your genuine striving to live and love in a truly Christlike way. Sadly, in seems that it is your loud, obnoxious, hateful brethren who have alone succeeded in forming your faith's shell in the world. It's that shell which I and so many people will ultimately be repulsed from before your better influence can ever be detected. It's not out of an "Adam running from the garden with his hands over his crotch" state of sinful guilt, either. Christianity's face is genuinely disgusting!

The hate-filled Christians you gladly join everyone in exasperation of are like mindless, misbehaving children. It's hopeless to expect them to see what they're doing. I've given up on them... and instead I now look to you. What will you do? What CAN you do, indeed? If I recall correctly, a part of being like Jesus involves a quiet spirit, devoid of pride. Judging from the utter cacophony of Christianity's thick, false crust, that at least is obvious. Thanks to them, Christianity appears as an elite club, loath to associate with the world that it claims to love but secretly despises.

And so I now end my idle note with a disappointed shake of my head as I think of what could have been.

reply to post by EllaMarina
Sad but true sister, and for that I'm sorry. Don't think that we aren't here working against the tide, but it is aswell while we are but a remnant.

I can't say it wasn't foretold, however. Almost the whole of Matthew 7 applies here...:

Do Not Judge:
7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye...

The Narrow Way:
...14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits:
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

All too many "christians" fail all too readily at ALL that is required of them. All I can say is I'm sorry, and we'll keep working on it. I THINK they're trying, but just don't know what they do...

Dear EllaMarina,

I shall assume that you are being sincere until I have reason to believe otherwise. Just because someone calls themselves a chair does not make them a chair and the same goes with christians or even humanists. I do not judge the Republican party by it's worst member or the Democrats by their worst members, I form my opinion of individuals based on how they act. As for how we are to judge a belief system, judge it by what Jesus taught not by how imbeciles who are out to suck money out of followers teach. I personally don't care if people choose to not believe, that is everyone's right and I don't care much about what people do in the bedroom, it is not any of my business unless it involves non consent or minors.

The average church has about 50 to 60 members and you never hear about them, you hear about people who teach spiritual poison like Swaggert or Benny Hinn, perverts of the word who only want your money. The more money they get, the more you hear about them because they can afford television time. Jesus reached out to the tax collectors and rejected the establishment and now we see the opposite. People claim spirituality; but, it is really just a false image to garner support. While it is sad, it was also prophesied. 2,000 years ago it was predicted that Jesus would be taught to the ends of the earth and that then there would be a great falling away. We are seeing exactly that. I always find it amusing that only Christianity predicted it's own demise and that it would happen when it had been brought to the whole world.

The church is dying and it is dying because of these false prophets and profiteers. In Europe, Christianity is all but dead and I do not anticipate any revival. In the United States it is focused on the ludicrous and fails it's true mission which is to spread hope of redemption.

In the end, the people you are concerned about will leave the church and those who truly believe and show the love we are to show will be left behind and despised by all being blamed for the blasphemy of those who never really cared about anything other than appearing pious. I read the end of the book.

Originally posted by EllaMarina
I commend your genuine striving to live and love in a truly Christlike way. Sadly, in seems that it is your loud, obnoxious, hateful brethren who have alone succeeded in forming your faith's shell in the world. It's that shell which I and so many people will ultimately be repulsed from before your better influence can ever be detected. It's not out of an "Adam running from the garden with his hands over his crotch" state of sinful guilt, either. Christianity's face is genuinely disgusting!

The hate-filled Christians you gladly join everyone in exasperation of are like mindless, misbehaving children. It's hopeless to expect them to see what they're doing. I've given up on them... and instead I now look to you. What will you do? What CAN you do, indeed? If I recall correctly, a part of being like Jesus involves a quiet spirit, devoid of pride. Judging from the utter cacophony of Christianity's thick, false crust, that at least is obvious. Thanks to them, Christianity appears as an elite club, loath to associate with the world that it claims to love but secretly despises.

And so I now end my idle note with a disappointed shake of my head as I think of what could have been.

Originally posted by EllaMarina
I commend your genuine striving to live and love in a truly Christlike way. Sadly, in seems that it is your loud, obnoxious, hateful brethren who have alone succeeded in forming your faith's shell in the world. It's that shell which I and so many people will ultimately be repulsed from before your better influence can ever be detected. It's not out of an "Adam running from the garden with his hands over his crotch" state of sinful guilt, either. Christianity's face is genuinely disgusting!

The hate-filled Christians you gladly join everyone in exasperation of are like mindless, misbehaving children. It's hopeless to expect them to see what they're doing. I've given up on them... and instead I now look to you. What will you do? What CAN you do, indeed? If I recall correctly, a part of being like Jesus involves a quiet spirit, devoid of pride. Judging from the utter cacophony of Christianity's thick, false crust, that at least is obvious. Thanks to them, Christianity appears as an elite club, loath to associate with the world that it claims to love but secretly despises.

And so I now end my idle note with a disappointed shake of my head as I think of what could have been.

Provide some quotes and links to Christians doing this and I will show you billions more assisting a suffering world every day. You are pretending to be above judgment by judging and name calling, apart from any evidence of what you are saying. This amounts to a prejudice, calling one group something while hiding behind the very thing you condemn. Please provide some evidence and context to your statements that make your case.

Standing up for truth is not being obnoxious in the least. Daddy Warbucks sending our children to war is obnoxious. Standing up for the people of Israel is not hateful. Sending a nation of people out of Palestine (Jordan) and calling Israel Palestine is hate. Keeping them there as a proxy is hate. Standing for truth against such tyranny is not hate. It's common decency for those who abide by laws based on democracy. Calling someone a hateful Jew or Christian amounts to lumping all descent people into one batch and calling them all bad apples. This is prejudice. Saying that this is prejudice is an object standing for a subject worth fight for. Standing up for the rights of the innocent children in the womb is common scenes and decency. Ripping a healthy child out of a womb, after drilling a hole in its head and filling it with poison. is pure EVIL! Standing up for such nonsense is only giving choice to the one killing the child. What ab,ut the child? Honoring the rights of animals first, but denying the child its rights before it even gets out of the womb is a twisted set of principles.

Before you come out against all that is good in this world, remember who is holding it together. Judge a man not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character. Where do Christians stand on Character as a whole? About the same as all humanity that is descent and cares for the other person above themselves. There are very few of us left. Be thankful for the fact that we are still here to keep the world from destroying itself utterly.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Enoch, a lot of the individuals you are rigorously defending are the ones I was addressing my original post to.

reply to post by AQuestion


Oh, I'm being quite sincere. I needed to express my disappointment in the state of Christianity in the world today. It won't surprise me in the least if the world ends up really annoyed at believers who sincerely aren't interested in hurting anyone. I see a lot of that happening even now.

Originally posted by EllaMarina
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Enoch, a lot of the individuals you are rigorously defending are the ones I was addressing my original post to.

edit on 7-8-2012 by EllaMarina because: (no reason given)

Sadly, in seems that it is your loud, obnoxious, hateful brethren who have alone succeeded in forming your faith's shell in the world.

Not brethren. My brethren is the common man that already has Christ in his heart and does not realize it yet. Jesus came for the sick, not the healthy. If you are referring to people like Westboro Baptist, you are tagging them incorrectly as Christians. They are hypocrites and sinners themselves, pretending to stand against the very thing they practice by saying they are above what they condemn. This denies the cross and necessity for Christ as a propitiation of sin for all of us. As you have provided no examples, it is hard to know what you are referring to other than lumping all Christians in to Westboro style hate theology. That's not the average Christian.

Originally posted by EllaMarina
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Oh, I'm being quite sincere. I needed to express my disappointment in the state of Christianity in the world today. It won't surprise me in the least if the world ends up really annoyed at believers who sincerely aren't interested in hurting anyone. I see a lot of that happening even now.

The state of Christianity is what you don't see, as it should be. Christians are charged with not doing their good works in front of men, to be seen by them. It is to be in secret if possible. If you bother to look on youtube, you will find millions of videos of Christian organizations ministering to people all over the world. Our church alone sends hundreds of thousands of dollars and scores of mission trips across the world, building hospitals and schools. My brother planted churches up and down a river in South America and these churches now aid the people on that river each day. They are self-sufficient. This was not there before one man decided to answer the call.

Your eyes are closed if you think that Westboro Christians reflect what a Christian is. Taking the name of Christ requires the character of what the name represents, otherwise, it is taken in vain. If you want to bash them for being hypocrites, you have my blessing. Don't lump all of Christianity into their mess. Be sure to know that you can't see the error of another person without seeing it in yourself first. We are all sinners equally in the eyes of God. This is what it means to be "Cast Down" from heaven. Returning requires a realization of your own sin nature and a humility and deference to the one who cast you down in love. Apart from this chance, you may never get another.

Forgiving others for their shortcomings is the first step in God forgiving yours. Grace is unmerited favor. None of us deserve it.

I see. I assumed you were referring to them as well. My apologies.
As for examples, my own personal impression comes from testimonies that I read over the past several years, especially on exchristian.net. Sad stories of church congregations showing a cold shoulder, things like that.

I'm not sure I'd be so dramatic as to say that my eyes are closed if hypocrites are all I see. There are two things working against me and those who also see only WBC members. The ones who practice their faith genuinely are doing it quietly as commanded, and are also drowned out by hypocrites' cacophony. I thank you for pointing out the work that the faithful are doing; it's reassuring.

Originally posted by EllaMarina
I see. My apologies. I assumed you were referring to them as well.
As for examples, my own personal impression comes from testimonies that I read over the past several years, especially on exchristian.net. Sad stories of church congregations showing a cold shoulder, things like that.

For good reason. We are all sinners. No man in this world can stand as an island of righteousness any more than one man can rise to righteousness by his own pride. The entire point of being a follower of Christ is to realize that he fulfilled what we cannot. This is the entire message to humanity of Christ and Christ alone. We are not as he is yet. The Bible makes it clear that as Christ is, so are we in the eyes of God. Why is this? Simple. God sees Christ because he is our sacrifice. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Do you realize the implication in this? It's not about what we can do for ourselves, it's about what HAS BEEN done for us.

All of what I just said can be found in scripture. When it says, "While We were," do you understand what this implies? Before Christ died for us, we were. Jesus said, "You must be born again." This is symbolic of baptism and rising to new life here and now. It is ALSO reflective of the fact that you WILL be born again. What you do now matters. Your next life is dependent entirely on the fact that ALL souls are here now to see Christ return. There are 7 billion of us here gathering for the big event.

Our clues are in Acts 24, where Paul is being accused in Rome of believing in the resurrection. Paul states that BOTH the righteous and unrighteous would be raised on the LAST day before final judgment. Have you ever pondered why there are currently the same number of people living as have ever lived on earth before?

Revelation 1:7 then gives us another indication of the generation that pierced Christ being here today to see Christ return as King of Kings.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The scoffer has plenty to worry about if their heart is not set right to God. We have all been given sufficient time to see the truth. You may call me a hell fire Christian and think that I am judging you. Nothing is further from the truth. I cannot see an error in you apart from seeing it in myself first. I would not be a loving person if I didn't warn you of what is coming.

Revelation 1:7

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Even those who pierced him are here now.

Originally posted by EllaMarina
I see. I assumed you were referring to them as well. My apologies.
As for examples, my own personal impression comes from testimonies that I read over the past several years, especially on exchristian.net. Sad stories of church congregations showing a cold shoulder, things like that.

I'm not sure I'd be so dramatic as to say that my eyes are closed if hypocrites are all I see. There are two things working against me and those who also see only WBC members. The ones who practice their faith genuinely are doing it quietly as commanded, and are also drowned out by hypocrites' cacophony. I thank you for pointing out the work that the faithful are doing; it's reassuring.

edit on 7-8-2012 by EllaMarina because: (no reason given)

There are many different people in this world and all of them are sinners. The best Christian you think you know still has sin they hide. None of us are different on this level of error. We are all under the curse of sin and if you see it in anyone, you see it in everyone. This is why Christ was necessary. Galatians points this out to all of us. The law is meant to protect the one that follows it from the one that doesn't. Well, as it turns out, that's all of us who stand condemned. Take a look at these verses in Galatians closely.

Because your mind is currently immersed in context, this should speak volumes to how you view a Christian. Your view of them should be your view of yourself as well.

Listen to this carefully: LINK

Originally posted by EllaMarina
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Oh, I'm being quite sincere. I needed to express my disappointment in the state of Christianity in the world today. It won't surprise me in the least if the world ends up really annoyed at believers who sincerely aren't interested in hurting anyone. I see a lot of that happening even now.

Dear EllaMarina,

And why do you feel the need to express disappointment? Is it because you dislike Christianity or because you wish to see it clear it's own house so you can join it? If you don't believe in it, then wouldn't you want it to self destruct? It will, it is happening now. Perhaps it is your tone that makes me doubt you, you take a very us versus them approach. The people you mentioned are not Christians, Christians are known by there fruit and that is not the fruit of Christ or love. Do you also complain about the atheists who tell us that we believe in Santa Claus and blame us for every war that ever happened while taking no responsibility for the wars themselves? Do you seek to ridicule and express disappointment or to find common ground and understanding?

reply to post by AQuestion


I think the ridicule of the Christian belief is quite childish. I also don't want Christianity to self-destruct, any more than I want the rest of the world's religions to disappear. I just wish that the dishonorable veneer I mentioned wasn't there anymore, because I think true followers of Christ deserve far better than what their false reputation attracts.

It might seem odd that I have this interest in it in particular. I used to be a Christian myself, and indeed have a small desire to go back, if only because the spirit of it was so comforting.

Originally posted by EllaMarinaIf I recall correctly, a part of being like Jesus involves a quiet spirit, devoid of pride. Judging from the utter cacophony of Christianity's thick, false crust, that at least is obvious. Thanks to them, Christianity appears as an elite club, loath to associate with the world that it claims to love but secretly despises.

Oh no, mainstream Christians love the World, especially it's money!

A few Christians I've professed to have begun to dissociate with me because I told them, I no longer dream for better job opportunities, I no longer look for financial security. It told them that my security is now in God alone and I would believe what the God of Jesus says, not in my own strength, not in my education, etc.

But you're right about Christian Pride, maybe it's different in my part of the world but it's all about money. Jesus will never argue on the side of money. He will in fact argue on how utterly insignificant it is.

But many Christians I've faced will argue on the side of money defending it to be God's promises. Who's God are they serving?? Jesus would never do such thing. In fact, Jesus say you can't serve two masters, you'll hate one and love the other. Money is the polar opposite of God. You are not to expect to experience God and money as some sort of package (worship God, you'll receive financial stability!) unless your god is a false god, the antichrist, the devil himself.

reply to post by EllaMarina


Dear EllaMarina,

We shall not get what you wish if we are right, we shall get ridicule and false prophets, we shall watch our church destroyed and maggots take them over. We shall get legalism and not love from those who claim to be christians and from those who do not. We shall be restricted and choose between our beliefs and our personal well being. That is what the bible says. I tell people who await the rapture that they are cowards, it says there will be many who die for believing as we do, they will be covered in blood it says. They will be martyrs, the false christians cannot be martyrs, there is no love in them to martyr.

The greatest trick the devil ever played was not convincing people that he did not exist, it was that they did not and that if there was a God then this place would be Club Med. It is not what the bible says. Christianity is the only religion that promises it's believers that they should take up their cross everyday and lose on this earth in the end. Not much of a sales job. At least the Mormons get a bunch of wives and the Muslims get 99 virgins and their own planet. The Hindu people, they become God. We are promised no such things, we are promised that we continue and my personal favorite, that all our tears will be dried. We are not promised that this life will not result in tears.

You did not answer my question, why do you care? I have a young friend, he is a satanist or so he says, he was also a foster kid and when he turned 18, he got thrown on the street. He has posted on line that all christians should be killed. I took him in when he was homeless and called him on his comments. He said he didn't mean me. "All" or "Christians" or "Jews" or "Blacks" is a reckless way to approach a true conversation. You do not know what "Christians" believe because you presume that the one's mentioned in the mainstream media are representative of us all. They are not.

If all Christians believe as you think they do then look at the fact that people claiming to be christians are the majority and yet, abortion is legal. That means that most Christians don't want to tell you how to live or what you must do. It also means you don't know most Christians, you only know the one's who want to tell you what to do, the ones that don't know the bible. We are told that if we go into a town and nobody wants to hear or responds to what we say, we are to leave and wipe the dust off our shoes. Our job is to spread the word about why we have hope inside us, not to worry about who is saved, that is in God's hands. Peace.

Originally posted by EllaMarina

Christianity's face is genuinely disgusting!

Which face? Christianity has two. The face of the Christ and the face of the anti-Christ. After all, Pisces is a mutable sign. There are two fish. Twin brothers.

The essential characteristics of Christianity are contained in Pisces. Jesus was the last ram of Aries and the first fish of Pisces. His twin brother, the anti-Christ, is the second fish. Its the second fish that dominates the sky right now. It began to gain dominance a thousand years ago...about halfway through the platonic month.

Originally posted by EllaMarina
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Enoch, a lot of the individuals you are rigorously defending are the ones I was addressing my original post to.

edit on 7-8-2012 by EllaMarina because: (no reason given)

Examples?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

My brethren is the common man that already has Christ in his heart and does not realize it yet.

How about, "does not realize it". Why must you add "YET" to this statement?

Will those common men and women who already live with Christ in their hearts be REQUIRED at some point to "REALIZE IT", else be doomed??

So what if they "realize" it or not?? They are still living as good men and women, and it's not a prerequisite to "say Jesus" or you don't count as a good person who fully understands what Christ taught.

HE WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE teaching these things. Plenty of people live this way, innately, it's their temperament, their natural disposition to be kind, generous, helpful. It doesn't "hinge" on "saying Jesus."

reply to post by EllaMarina


Brilliant OP, thanks!! S/F

I wish there was a way to shut them up, but alas, there is none. Not as long as they have fan clubs, and their followers think they can never develop a better "coping strategy" to deal with their own misery.

It's a sad situation indeed.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

My brethren is the common man that already has Christ in his heart and does not realize it yet.

How about, "does not realize it". Why must you add "YET" to this statement?

Will those common men and women who already live with Christ in their hearts be REQUIRED at some point to "REALIZE IT", else be doomed??

So what if they "realize" it or not?? They are still living as good men and women, and it's not a prerequisite to "say Jesus" or you don't count as a good person who fully understands what Christ taught.

HE WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE teaching these things. Plenty of people live this way, innately, it's their temperament, their natural disposition to be kind, generous, helpful. It doesn't "hinge" on "saying Jesus."

There is a voice that calls and we are all required to answer. The reflection of our lives tells the answer. God doesn't require our testimony, but confession and humility in deference to Him shows our true heart. John 2 reveals the stark truth in the matter that there is nothing to hide from God. Our own confession allows repentance to take place and the authority of God to be seen within our matching actions from that point on.

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

It's not a question of God knowing us. He already does. We need to know ourselves. Impenetrability is the state of being whereby two things cannot occupy the same space. One will fight the other. Within us all, there are two twin spirits equally balanced and fighting for our soul. An empty void is left in all hearts and the person is then left to fill that void with spirits (Consciousness routines) that determine the final makeup of that person. We have fruits of the spirit on both sides of good and evil. The balance of these determines our development along the way. If we choose to follow the path of sin, we are taking the fruit ourselves and filling our void with superficial desires that can never last. If we choose, instead, to fill ourselves with the fruits of the spirit, we are practicing virtues that are then given by God along the way. One takes and the other gives. God is the teacher. Suffering follows or leads and it's our choice.

The teacher in this allows us to follow our own path. We can take reward, but this leaves a debt and suffering at the end. We can suffer first, which is always followed by reward. This is the correct path and the correct twin spirit to follow. Anything else simply reflects our own leading of the Spirit rather than the Spirit of God leading us. One is pride and the other is humility and deference to God's authority. You can guarantee that any time you see error in anyone else, you are really seeing it in yourself first. If the soul is empty, it will fill the void with self-righteous judgment of the other person. In the end, the judgment can only be against the self. By filling the void with virtue, it is satisfied. Nothing else is required. A soul that is filled with the proper spiritual food will see error in others and not deflect this into dissonance within the self. A filled soul is overflowing and needs nothing to satisfy the craving.

In this state, the world is no longer necessary. Love is the only thing left. This does not imply that the world is not enjoyed. On the contrary, the world opens up like a flower with opportunity we never knew existed.