We Now Have Our Smallest Government in 45 Years, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 7 times

Topic started on 7-8-2012 @ 05:04 PM by LDragonFire

Since the official end of the Great Recession, America's public sector has shrunk. And shrunk. And shrunk some more. We've said goodbye to about 600,000 government jobs, handing the economy a nasty self-inflicted wound in the process.

But how small has our public sector really become? Here's one way to think about it: Compared to our population, it hasn't been this size since 1968. Your dreams are coming true Baby Boomers. We're almost all the way back to the Summer of Love!

First, credit where it's due. The Hamilton Project has produced a beautiful graph illustrating the government employment to population ratio. As it shows, there are now fewer public sector employees per American than at any time dating back to the Carter administration (To be clear, we're talking state, federal, and local here).

link

Here you have it folks, if our government was the size iit was in 2007 there would be 1.7 million more jobs with the government.

Our government size compared to population hasn't been this small since 1968.

What say you?

edit on 7-8-2012 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:11 PM by Gridrebel

And HE said HE was creating jobs! Can't even do it in the government, much less the private sector. Good thing to see though, less government red tape is a good thing, don't you agree?

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:12 PM by tvtexan

reply to post by LDragonFire

Not sure if it's true or not, but if it is...at the exact same time our debt has doubled!
Where is all that money going?

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:13 PM by IndieA

The Federal Government has more power over the rest of us, than ever.

And they have managed to spend more than ever.

Biggest Gov. If you ask IndieA.

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:13 PM by links234

The GOP fired government employees to keep the unemployment numbers high and make Obama look bad.
Sneaky.

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:19 PM by tvtexan

Originally posted by links234
The GOP fired government employees to keep the unemployment numbers high and make Obama look bad.
Sneaky.

That is a very uninformed statement.
Come back when you have done some research.

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:28 PM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by tvtexan
reply to post by LDragonFire

Not sure if it's true or not, but if it is...at the exact same time our debt has doubled!
Where is all that money going?

Ever see The Money Pit?

The expenses build while the house crumbles.

That's America.

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:30 PM by Wildbob77

It hasn't shrunk.

It is only smaller as a percentage of the population which continues to grow.

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:35 PM by Rockpuck

reply to post by LDragonFire

That's ALL government. Not Federal Government. This only highlights the extreme issues with our municipalities.. when most people complain about the size of government they mean the Feds.

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:35 PM by charles1952

Interesting and valuable, thank you.

I don't think many people here are concerned about lots of government employees at the county level or how many city councilmen they have. Splitting out Federal employment might have been more meaningful. I personally would like more government employees at the State and Local level, and fewer at the Federal level. In the first two years of this administration, Federal civilian employment went up by 80,000.

But it's not the number of employees that worry me, it's their scope, authority and ability to control. That, I think, is greater than at any time in the last 45 years

Year Executive branch civilians (thousands) Uniformed military personnel (thousands) Legislative and judicial branch personnel (thousands) Total Federal personnel (thousands)
1962 2,485 2,840 30 5,354
1963 2,498 2,732 30 5,260
1964 2,470 2,719 31 5,220
1965 2,496 2,687 32 5,215
1966 2,726 3,129 33 5,888
1967 2,968 3,413 34 6,416
1968 3,020 3,584 35 6,639
1969 3,040 3,499 36 6,575
1970 2,944 3,104 38 6,085
1971 2,883 2,752 40 5,675
1972 2,823 2,360 42 5,225
1973 2,781 2,289 44 5,113
1974 2,847 2,198 46 5,091
1975 2,848 2,164 49 5,061
1976 2,833 2,119 50 5,002
1977 2,840 2,112 53 5,005
1978 2,875 2,099 55 5,028
1979 2,823 2,063 53 4,939
1980 2,821 2,090 55 4,965
1981 2,806 2,122 54 4,982
1982 2,770 2,147 55 4,972
1983 2,820 2,163 56 5,039
1984 2,854 2,178 56 5,088
1985 3,008 2,190 58 5,256
1986 2,966 2,206 55 5,228
1987 3,030 2,213 58 5,301
1988 3,054 2,176 59 5,289
1989 3,064 2,168 60 5,292
1990 3,067 2,106 61 5,234
1991 3,048 2,040 64 5,152
1992 3,017 1,848 66 4,931
1993 2,947 1,744 66 4,758
1994 2,908 1,648 63 4,620
1995 2,858 1,555 62 4,475
1996 2,786 1,507 61 4,354
1997 2,725 1,439 62 4,226
1998 2,727 1,407 62 4,196
1999 2,687 1,386 63 4,135
2000 2,639 1,426 63 4,129
2001 2,640 1,428 64 4,132
2002 2,630 1,456 66 4,152
2003 2,666 1,478 65 4,210
2004 2,650 1,473 64 4,187
2005 2,636 1,436 65 4,138
2006 2,637 1,432 63 4,133
2007 2,636 1,427 63 4,127
2008 2,692 1,450 64 4,206
2009 2,774 1,591 66 4,430
2010 2,776 1,602 64 4,443

www.opm.gov...

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:49 PM by acmpnsfal

Reply to post by LDragonFire

I dont think the private sector has costs anyone jobs. I mean these positions did not dissapear they are just no longer funded directly by the government. So the jobs would still be there.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:53 PM by freethinker123

Can somebody explain to me the obsession with smaller government in the US, rather than a better functioning government? In other words, why aren't people as concerend with state employees doing their jobs better as much as they are wanting for them to lose their jobs?

I ask because almost all from the US talk about this small government thing, but I get the feeling its a 'belief' almost held like a religion and that hardly anybody even bothers thinking about the issue, its a given for some reason...

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:53 PM by beezzer

reply to post by LDragonFire

We have the most intrusive government in 45 years.

We have the most divisive government in 45 years.

We have a governmet that spends more, than in the past 45 years.

We have a government that has caused our credit rating to slip. First time in 235 years.

We have a government paying more in entitlements than in the past 235 years.

We have a government that has created more laws that have removed freedoms than in the past 45 years.

We now have a government that uses taxes in a punative matter. First time in 235 years.

We now have a government that openly uses keynesian economics. First time in 235 years.

We now have a government who creates decrees. More than in the past 235 years.

Just a simple google search shows that this false identification is being used all over the internet. It, I'm sure, is being used as a talking point to create the illusion that Obama is a "small government" president. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Government has taken over GM.
Government has taken over student loans.
Government has taken over the home lending market (Frank-Dodd)
Government has grown in the form of DHS, TSA, FDA, IRS, HHS.

Through government, our borders are now more open than ever before.
Because of government, we have placed ourselves into foreign nations business without being asked.

Government now employs drones on domestic soil.
Government now dictates free speech.
Government now challenges state rights.

Government now uses taxes as either the carrot or the stick. Government now panders to the lowest common denominator. Our current government bribes, lies, cheats. Our current government panders to the lawyer PAC's and is overseeing rationing of healthcare.

Our current government encourages social and economic "justice" instead of individuality and personal responsibility.

Our current government encourages wealth redistribution.

Our current governmen tpunishes success and rewards medeocrity.

That's what our government is.

edit on 7-8-2012 by beezzer because: typos

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 05:56 PM by Doalrite

Title is misleading our government is bigger than ever, just because our population has gotten larger doesn't change that fact.

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 06:00 PM by EvilSadamClone

Yet the government's power grows and grows and grows and grows and grows and grows and grows...

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 06:01 PM by jefwane

Anyone got a nice chart of government spending / GDP that runs the same time period? I'd like to see that. The most important thing I think when looking at any chart is the old saying " figures don't lie but liars figure".

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 06:03 PM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by freethinker123
Can somebody explain to me the obsession with smaller government in the US, rather than a better functioning government? In other words, why aren't people as concerend with state employees doing their jobs better as much as they are wanting for them to lose their jobs?

I ask because almost all from the US talk about this small government thing, but I get the feeling its a 'belief' almost held like a religion and that hardly anybody even bothers thinking about the issue, its a given for some reason...

Because they cant do it better.

Speaking as a decades long government employee efficiency is frowned upon.

In one of my higher-up positions I was able to cut tens of thousands off the annual budget of my municipality not by laying people off, reducing services or making any cuts of any kind. I simply cancelled all the crony contracts that had been established and opened all acquisitions and services up to bidding and "shopping around."

The taxpayers on the street loved it.

The bureaucrats did not.

I experienced this same occurrence in several positions across several cities and states.

Efficiency is punished. Nepotism and waste is not only liked but it is encouraged and rewarded.

I'll never forget the time I was called out for picking up a $2 roll of tape on my way in rather than ordering that same roll of tape for $10 from the city approved vendor.

An efficient government is an impossibility. By it's vary nature any governing entity or bureaucracy will be corrupt sooner or later.

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 06:04 PM by sonnny1

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by LDragonFire

We have the most intrusive government in 45 years.

We have the most divisive government in 45 years.

We have a governmet that spends more, than in the past 45 years.

We have a government that has caused our credit rating to slip. First time in 235 years.

We have a government paying more in entitlements than in the past 235 years.

We have a government that has created more laws that have removed freedoms than in the past 45 years.

We now have a government that uses taxes in a punative matter. First time in 235 years.

We now have a government that openly uses keynesian economics. First time in 235 years.

We now have a government who creates decrees. More than in the past 235 years.

Just a simple google search shows that this false identification is being used all over the internet. It, I'm sure, is being used as a talking point to create the illusion that Obama is a "small government" president. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Government has taken over GM.
Government has taken over student loans.
Government has taken over the home lending market (Frank-Dodd)
Government has grown in the form of DHS, TSA, FDA, IRS, HHS.

Through government, our borders are now more open than ever before.
Because of government, we have placed ourselves into foreign nations business without being asked.

Government now employs drones on domestic soil.
Government now dictates free speech.
Government now challenges state rights.

Government now uses taxes as either the carrot or the stick. Government now panders to the lowest common denominator. Our current government bribes, lies, cheats. Our current government panders to the lawyer PAC's and is overseeing rationing of healthcare.

Our current government encourages social and economic "justice" instead of individuality and personal responsibility.

Our current government encourages wealth redistribution.

Our current governmen tpunishes success and rewards medeocrity.

That's what our government is.

edit on 7-8-2012 by beezzer because: typos

I just had to bump this......

Well said !!!!

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 06:07 PM by miniatus

reply to post by LDragonFire

I would still like to see the overall size of the government in total numbers, not in ratios .. because in my mind all this does is say that we've been popping out children faster than we've been hiring new government employees.. it doesn't say anything for the actual size of the government as it's own .. you might as well be comparing the number of government employees to the number of trees in the Amazon .. again, all it says is our population has been expanding faster than government hiring.

With the advent of technology, the government doesn't NEED to grow in proportion to the population in order to be larger and more looming over us .. a room of super computers can do more than a couple thousand warm bodies employees ( and that is very likely an under-estimation )

edit on 8/7/2012 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-8-2012 @ 06:12 PM by EvilSadamClone

reply to post by miniatus

It's not the numbers, it's the POWER of the government that matters. The numbers are just a symptom.

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