Debunking White Privilege

Originally posted by James1982

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
In California students are required to take Spanish so they can understand the Spanish speaking people.

Why can't they be required to learn English?

That's what I just don't get.

Us bad white people are being intolerant and white-centric thinking only about ourselves when we refuse to learn a different language in our own country.

What does that make foreign people when they refuse to learn the language spoken in the country they move to?

Please ask Pete Wilson. The demographics in the 80 were such as you make the official state language to be spanish but he vetoed it.

I am fine with that.

Granted that America is still the land of opportunity to many who would come over here and not make reasonable attempt to learn the language. Please submit relevant statistics to support your inference.

Even if you deliberatley ignore my previous coments I will continue to engage with your misconceptions

kind Regards

Tiger5

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
reply to post by Honor93

 

Nope. Per capita just means per person. So while it may be true that a black family is likely to be receiving more assistance than a white family, whites still get the bulk of the money.

boy o'boy can you discombobulate that relationship any more ??
yes, per capita does mean per person which also translates to more of the black population (greater percentage) consuming more assistance than the white population, period.

which also means, more persons of the black population use more assistance, more frequently than the white portion.

there is no other point to it except that more members of the white population contribute more to the sustenance of all.

unfortunately, you think white ppl get more when clearly they contribute more, so what's the problem ??

Originally posted by RealSpoke
OP loves to live in a fantasy world. He thinks minorities have more privilege and regurgitates stormfront talking points.

edit on 8-8-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

Thanks for your massive contribution to this thread. People have been waiting with bated breath for your enlightening commentary.

What does it mean when you are unable to easily reply to a specific point with your own opinion, but instead make such an incredibly stupid comment as saying I'm regurgitating stormfront talking points? How incredibly juvenile is that? Did you hope to change minds? Did you hope to share an alternative viewpoint? Did you hope to enlighten others? Or did you simply hope to insult me?

Why even bother posting anything? You obviously have absolutely zero interest in contributing to this thread, if you disagree with something what's so hard about saying what it is and offering up a rebuttal? If you care about the subject of racial discrimination even half as much as you make it seem you do, you'd either expose the truly racist people or at least just leave alone those that aren't. You do yourself a great disservice. You show everyone here how you can't rationally debate a topic that you think you actually care about considering how often you comment on these types of threads What is the first thing you say when you come in my thread? That I'm a racist. REAL original there pal.

Ok, you didn't come out and say it. You did it in a way you thought was clever. ("thought" being the key word there) Making an association between me and a racist website, wow you know you really got me there. I'm in awe of your ability to covertly insult me with the most potent of insults no less. I have not heard such an impressive burn as that since my days as a first grader watching people make idiots of themselves calling each other poop face or butt munch on the playground.

Next time don't bother. Aside from your total lack of content or relevance to this thread you completely destroy the seriousness of the accusation of racist. I'm not sure you're aware, but there are real flesh and blood people out there that deeply hate blacks, mexicans, asians, basically anyone that isn't them. They physically harm or kill others for simply being the wrong skin color. They would never enter into any sort of conversation with you, care to hear your view on any subject, or show you a sliver of respect They are real racists.

Someone who has worked hard their entire life to get what little they have, without any free rides, hand outs or hand ups, who refuses to accept people who know jack chit about his life calling him privileged simply for his skin color is not a racist. Someone who exposes and calls out the hypocrisy of the government, the law, and fellow ATS member's philosophy is not a racist.

You cheapen that word and soften all the ugly and evil things that go along with it when you throw it around so haphazardly at undeserving people. Your exactly the same as the boy who cried wolf. You call people racists so often that if you ever actually get it right for a change it won't mean anything anymore. It will have simply turned into a word to hurl at people you don't like, people like me who refuse to allow their accomplishments to be attributed to their skin color instead of their hard work.

reply to post by RealSpoke
because that isn't the topic of this thread.
why is it sooooo difficult for you to stay on topic?

are you saying all women are white ?? i sure hope not.

personally, i've never seen an education funding specifically for women only. have you?

when i went to school, men weren't nurses but they are now.
when i went to school, women weren't mechanics but they are now.
both of these industries catered to their primary workforce, even though that has changed, the funding hasn't, why not ??

you don't know enough about history to go there.
been on that dance with you before and since you refuse to get off my toes and dance to your own tune, no thanks.

we aren't discussing 2007-2008 ... got anything fresh ??
besides, private scholarships aren't government ones, nice try though.
gotta love how you transpose info at your convenience, so long as it makes your argument appear valid.

plus, IF black students were studying for such degrees (4yr+), maybe they'd get funding to match.
that does work on a supply/demand principle.
no demand, no need for a supply.

White privilege...hmmmmmm.
Yea it has been a real privilege alright. It was a privilege getting my eyes blackened for being white. It was a real privilege hearing the words "White Ass Honkey" as the fists were coming down on me. As my friends in school were being taken away for medical treatment because somehow Alex Hailey was able to imply to blacks that all white people in America were descended from slave owners.

You black rights people make me...I dunno I guess the best word is disappointed.
I have listened to every recording of former slaves speaking I could find. You would think that every recording would go something like this:
Well first master woke us up and we went and picked cotton , Lord I hate white people.
Then about mid day master would come and feed us chicken crap and horse poop for lunch, God I hate white people
Then at the end of the day, master would round us up and beat us till we couldn't walk. Did I tell you I hate white people?

In all the recordings I have ever herd, never one time did I hear words of hatred towards white people. But I did hear one where the gentleman took his turn at making a statement declaring his opinion where black people were heading if they didn't change their ways.......and guess what he was right

Try this out if you can find it in your little black hearts to do so.

Instead of viewing me as the son of a former slave owner...see me as the son of one of the 200,000 Northern soldiers who died in the Civil War
Instead of seeing me as the son of a slave owner.....see me as the son of a person who ran the Underground Railroad
Instead of seeing me as the son of a slave owner...see me as the son of one of the original 13 states who outlawed slavery from day one
Seriously, how long are you people going to hold a grudge???
Give me an honest answer please, how long??
I suspect the answer is that as long as you are black you will forever hold me accountable for something that lasted just over 60 years, and only existed in certain states.
If it is restitution you really want let me give you terms that I could agree with
Any restitution payed out for grievances should include these provisions
Any money paid as any form of welfare must deducted from it
Any money that was paid to a negro through a job that was given him based on color, quota or affirmative action must be deducted
Any negro that is incarcerated must have the expense he has placed on the citizens for his care be deducted

In other words it is well past time to let bygones be bygones...simple as that

reply to post by ronnieray123


Bravo you have destroyed a straff man completely. I am have been trying to discuss is the situation now. White privelidge as occurin gin these relatively recent times. Do you believe that racism exists today? or did itdissappear at the start of the 1980s? Here are the facts: Racism did not die away over night.It actually continues today. But you would know as you are black. Carcasm

Something else to consider is these 13 states were never free of white supremacy which was (and is) the real issue that feeds privelidge...

reply to post by acmpnsfal


It makes plenty of sense. It depends on where you go for public assistance. If I had gone to virginia I'd probably have gotten the public assistance and EBT. If I had gone to a public assistance office in malibu or even in hollywood I might have had no problems. I went to the one closest to where I lived. It was the panorama city office. They were racist there. It all depends on the demographics going in and out of these offices. If you understood the concepts and movements going on in LA like La Raza et al... you would understand that in certain parts of the city it's not OK to be white. Even at the city,state and fed branches operating out of those cities. What the people who work there put aside their biases and racism while they are at work? WHy should they when even their boss feels the same way they do. White people experience racism too. I'm willing to bet if I went to East LA and tried getting EBT I might run into the same problem.

reply to post by James1982


Actually we've reconnected since as adults. One good thing facebook has ever done for me. Man she is an accomplished woman these days. Almost to the point describing my job which is pretty sweet is embarrassing. In the end even though we reconnected as adults we did't work out and have kept the relationship at friend level. But yeah it was obvious racism. As a young teen I simply couldn't understand why I couldn't be her boyfriend simply because I was white. At the time I was envolved heavily in the asian community. Her dad knew that. Heck he used to see me assisting my sensei at the local martial arts demonstrations. I even spoke a little bit of mandarin and knew a lot about their culture and customs. Even all of that was not enough to make me acceptable as a boyfriend for her dad. It is what it is. But it was racism against me due to my skin color.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by ronnieray123

 

Bravo you have destroyed a straff man completely. I am have been trying to discuss is the situation now. White privelidge as occurin gin these relatively recent times. Do you believe that racism exists today? or did itdissappear at the start of the 1980s? Here are the facts: Racism did not die away over night.It actually continues today. But you would know as you are black. Carcasm

Something else to consider is these 13 states were never free of white supremacy which was (and is) the real issue that feeds privelidge...

edit on 9-8-2012 by Tiger5 because: (no reason given)

I wish I could understand your post better. Too many errors, it leaves me guessing your intentions.
Racism does exists, no question about it. If you are insinuating that it is unique to white people, well I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you would never say anything so silly.
Does a person have the right to dislike anyone they want to. I say yes, and this person also has the right not to need permission for it to be ok.
The Black Panthers and the KKK are 2 sides of the same coin. To me they are both funny little men who think much too highly of themselves.
The only thing that comes out of this is the nonstop redefining of what racism is. As long as there is something to be gained, as long as someone is allowed to earn a living off of finding it....it will always be here to find, even if the meaning of what racist is needs to be changed to justify the results.
The nonstop bombardment of Evil White Guy will lead to nothing positive. Sooner or later it will lead to Caucasians getting tired of it and the backlash from it could be really bad, and being outnumbered by 70% makes me believe it is in the blacks best interest to insure that day never comes.

The black culture has a serious double standard, a hypocrisy about it that can not be allowed to stand, The ones who see it and rise above it are called Uncle Tom's or worse.
When I was in high school there was a black guy named James who preferred the company of of the white kids. It seems like once a week he was getting jumped for not wanting to be a part of the negro mentality that was so prevalent in our school. He was being punished for not wanting to be one of the punishers.
When I was in school, white people did not go to any classes on the 3rd floor, white people did not go into any bathrooms and white people only dared hang their coats in one hallway.
Does this not justify me saying evil black people, as so many of you feel justified in saying evil white people?
Or is it better to just let bygones be bygones, admit we are all innocent and we are all guilty and then move on.

reply to post by ronnieray123


sorry about the typos. I have a form of dyslexia. Black culture is not monolithic. there are many black cultures. I could never say that white culture is monolithic. How can you treat black culture as monolithic?

You go on to say that as long as there is someone making money out of difference?? Or words to that effect. Well it is caused by Capitalism under which everything becomes a commodity and hence can be traded or sold. Capitlaism is a white invention.

No the black panthers were a group that I supported as they were a product of the times. The late 60s and early 70s were a time of extreme racism against black people. The Black panthers were set up for self defence.

Can you understand I completely denounce the New Black Panthers who are a bunch of retro Pan Africkanist idiots. I alsodenounce pan afrikanists and the NOI.

Do you denounce white supremacy? Now that is the question.

reply to post by Tiger5


Nothing to denounce brother, the last thing I would ever do is claim supremacy over anyone. Ok well if you hit girls, or rob people or any number of other things I will declare myself better than you. But if your just some poor slob trying to make his way through life with as few hassles as possible, then all I can do is share your pain.
Were all in this together man,
But if we stopped giving each other a hard time, then both of our attentions are gonna be focused on someone else and they do not want that.
I have so many things to worry about....wife , kid, job, house payment ect, do you really think I have time to concern myself with skin color......until someone points it out to me

I think Chris Rock said it best, I love black people but I am scared to death of a nigga.
I grew up in Detroit, I was taught this lesson at a real young age

Why would you label those aspects as "white privilege"? It's simply minority disadvantage (if you choose to view it in a negative way). Minorities of ANY country face things such as not seeing as many of themselves in the media, in history books, or while out in public. Whites are NOT the majority in most countries and are a global minority. So why single out white people? As for makeup and hair care, I always see a plethora of products for every skin tone and hair texture and I live in a majority white town. If you go to a predominately black area, pretty much every local hair salon caters to black hair care needs.

If white racism and oppression is such a huge hurdle for non-whites, then why do so many of them flock to majority-white countries? Immigrants are constantly CHOOSING to be a minority, as well as choosing that for their descendents.. I couldn't imagine choosing to move to a country with a non-white majority and then whine about being a minority and the disadvantages (again-depends on perception) that go along with it. The only people who didn't choose to come here are slaves.

None of those in this thread who disagree have addressed the point of Asian success. Their superior success alone debunks the myth of 'white privilege'.

reply to post by Charmed707


minorities , especially those from other countries, if i recall right never had a gun put to their head and told Your coming with me to USA!!! I could be wrong but I have my suspicions

Moving to a country where you do not look like anyone else and feeling upset because the papers are in English or no one on television looks like you is on par with jumping in a pool and getting angry because you got wet

If the mexicans had a brain, the would realize their numbers are able to make change and go back home and fix the things that causes them to sneak across the border.

If the blacks really felt as they claim they do, they would pick a state and amass there and build it into their Utopia, but they do not. It is easier to just complain and make excuses...and make whitey suffer for it anytime the chance to comes up

reply to post by King_John


I agree that great disparity exists in the United States... my feeling is that it is no longer a racial issue - it is a class issue. Since the economy tanked most of my neighbors and friends have barely been getting by, have had to go on public assistance, have lost their cars, homes, etc... and most of them were white.

Racial wounds still exist in this nation, and I don't deny that at all. But I do beleve that we solve nothing by continuing to pick those scabs. We are all onboard a sinking ship right now.... we can either work together to bail water and survive... or we can discuss or differences and sink.

~Heff

reply to post by Honor93


If that is the case - then I misunderstood your point and apologize. If it helps, I don't like having to check the race box on an application either... I end up checking "white" when the truth is I am half Irish and half Native American... I never seem to find the box that fits my own self-image....

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by King_John

 

I agree that great disparity exists in the United States... my feeling is that it is no longer a racial issue - it is a class issue. Since the economy tanked most of my neighbors and friends have barely been getting by, have had to go on public assistance, have lost their cars, homes, etc... and most of them were white.

Racial wounds still exist in this nation, and I don't deny that at all. But I do beleve that we solve nothing by continuing to pick those scabs. We are all onboard a sinking ship right now.... we can either work together to bail water and survive... or we can discuss or differences and sink.

~Heff

I agree class system is an issue, but the problem with disregarding race altogether is that many lower income families are minorities, so even indirectly it's a race issue. Even once class is taken out of the equation race still plays a factor. A rich Latin or Black man is still not treated the same as a rich White man.

reply to post by King_John


In saying that "many" low income families are minorities you are side-stepping the other side of that coin... many of the impoverished in this nation are caucasian. There are disparities, regionally... some areas have more impoverished blacks, other areas hispanics... and some areas whites. My personal position is that we are all in danger of the same fate if we cannot learn to let go of past biases. That's why I engage in conversations such as this one.

Now if you wish to argue that a disproportionate number of the ultra wealthy are white - that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, as it's spot on. I would readily agree that it is patently unfair and that there is a glass ceiling for people of color - but that same ceiling also effects many who are not of color as well.

~Heff

Originally posted by James1982
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

I'll reply to your reply about my reply, I don't think you are wasting your time and honestly hope you don't feel you are either. I read and think about all your posts so you aren't wasting your time in my eyes.

My replies might come a bit slow as my thoughts are more complex than the simple rebuttals I posted in my OP. Please be patient and I'll try to address all your posts.

First of all, why would you even start a thread, call it debunking white privilege, and then give simplistic not well thought out rebuttals? That defeats the purpose of having this type of discourse which is why I felt like I may have been wasting my time responding to it. But anyway, here goes.

Understood. Although, why is a job in a corporate office, law firm, etc considered more relevant than other jobs? It's considered bad that whites are a majority in those types of jobs, but not considered bad they are the minority in other types of jobs? MY jobs have all been dominated by Mexicans. In EVERY single job I've held I have been the minority. So I have in fact had to deal with being a racial minority. These jobs were warehouse/factory type jobs, btw.

Whites are the majority in pretty much every profession in this country. The amount of minorities present in things like labor type jobs vary depending on where you live. This essay may be just as relevant to a labor job. This article may not have been addressing more professional type jobs, thats what I got from it though based on everything else she wrote. Plus, in the more modern era, they are the places where minorities typically report facing the most difficulties in the workplace, from what I have read. The emphasis is usually put on jobs that require a professional degree.

"deal" might be the wrong word. I didn't have to deal..

Glad you retracted deal.

How is it a privilege to work with your own race? Even if it IS a privilege, it's all relative. Mexicans would have "Hispanic Privilege" in the work place assuming they wanted to work in warehouse/factory jobs.

This article is kind of basic and skirts around the fact that white privilege is systemic. Therefore its not just about being able to work with people that are your own race. There are other issues that arise out of the fact that where you are working is set up in a way that largely benefits white people. But we really have not gotten there yet, I just feel like you should know that.

I guess I can concede that in that instance, a Mexican person could be experiencing privilege, in that they would not have to worry about being a minority on the job. I have a couple of questions about your job though. Did you ever feel like your co-workers or management demeaned your culture or race? Did you ever feel like your worldview was ignored or not represented? Did you ever feel like you had to work harder than your coworkers to be recognized for your work by management? Did you feel like your coworkers had any type of advantage because they were Mexican? Did you feel like you were disadvantaged because you were white? Also feel like I should add, Mexicans are not the majority in warehouse and factory type jobs nationwide.

What I mean is, you say a white person can get a job working with their own race. No, only if they get a specific type of work. So this is the exact same thing for minorities. They could work with mainly their own race if they got specific work too.

First, as I stated in the beginning, whites generally are the majority in every job nationwide. Do you see what you are advocating here though? People should ignore their skills and personal aspirations simply because they might have to deal with being the minority on the job. You really think thats ok? Wouldn't it make more sense have a more inclusive work environment?

But to me this all boils down to: why does it matter what race of people you are working with? In order to be considered a privilege to work with your own race that means working with other races is bad. Why is working with other races than your own bad?

The race of the people you are working with should not matter. It is considered white privilege, not because working with people of other races is bad or just because its something white people don't have to worry about. There is significant research that proves minorities face unfair treatment working in majority white workplaces.

reply to post by James1982

Originally posted by James1982


I turn on my TV and see minorities represented positively everywhere just like white people, and that's on regular stations. As much as white people? Absolutely not. Why would they be? They are minorities, that's the whole point. A minority will be represented less than a majority, because there are less of them.

No, that is absolutely false, lol. Minorities are not represented in the media at a number that matches the population of minorities in America. You only *think* they are because you are white.

According to the US Census Bureau for 2009 just over 65 percent of the population is white. Minorities, or people of color, make up just under 35 percent, with the percentage of Latinos in the US being 15.8 percent, of African Americans, 12.9 percent, and the third largest minority group, Asians, making up just under five percent of the American population. How many minorities are in the media? According to the American Screen Actors Guild, in 2008 of all television and theatrical roles, excluding animation, the percentage of different ethnic groups is as follows: Caucasian — 72.5 African American — 13.3 Latino — 6.4 Asian — 3.8 Native American — .3 For leading roles the percentage of Caucasian characters is higher and that of minority roles is lower for all minority groups. Comparing the numbers of the actual population to those of the people presented on screen, there is not enough diversity in the media. The ethnic group with the greatest disparity between the numbers in reality and those for television and film roles is the Latino population. Read more at Suite101: Are There Enough Images of Minorities in the US Media? | Suite101.com suite101.com...

Source

Also, most minority characters are not "positively" represented at all. Most minority roles on tv shows are written from the perspective of white writers, who write the roles with race in mind. Therefore the roles are written in ways that are sometimes very stereotypical(not always blatantly). Also as the text above stated they are usually not a leading character. Some writers like Shonda Rhimes, the writer of Greys Anatomy(which has a fairly racially diverse cast), practices blind casting. Actors and Actresses join the cast based on merit. So the character is already developed before she knows their race.

Lets talk about the local news though. I live in a large city, that is mostly black and hispanic. All the positive stories on the news involve white people. All the stories about people having issues with the city or the county usually involve white people. I know for a fact the black and hispanic population has many gripes with the city, there are organizations within those neighborhoods working to solve them, but they never make the news. Most of the human interest stories are about white people. Hispanic people are almost never shown on the news. I have never seen an Asian on the news. And the only time black people are shown is if they committed a crime. Except the mayor, hes black, lol. In a city that is mostly black and hispanic? That does not make sense.

I am positive that on regular TV stations there are plenty of minorities being represented in commercials and on actual TV shows. I watch Law & Order SVU quite often. There is a black detective (Ice T) a black doctor (the coroner, Tamera Tunny or something like that) and an Asian psychiatrist (BD wong) 3 minorities out of about 10 total main characters is a pretty damn fair representation of minorities.

I watch Law & Order SVU sometimes too, good show. It is fairly diverse but thats not the rule is it? Commercials are a completely different story. I can't even say minorities in general are fairly represented in commercials. I generally only see commercials targeted to white and black consumers. But the reason why companies started to target black people is because their buying power is increasing and they wanted a piece of that action.

In my mind minorities are represented quite well, at least a fair percentage, and that's not even considering the minority-aimed channels.

What minority channels are on regular tv? The only one in my area is Telemundo.

Originally posted by James1982

I was also taught about george washington carver and the tuskegee airmen. Do you think a couple people contributed as much as millions and millions over a long period of time?

There are other people who contributed to the success of America, that should be mentioned that are not in the teaching of American history.

I'm not saying minorities get equal play in history class. Why should they? Are you saying that minorities have contributed equally to the formation of this country? The founding fathers were white, all presidents up until Obama was white, major military and political figures were white. Because the number of white people is vastly greater than that of other races, that means white people have a larger contribution to the US than other races, hence more coverage of white people in history classes.

Why should minorities get equal play in history classes? You cannot be serious. First of all not all white people are exceptional, the only ones that are mentioned did something special, right? Because if they did something exceptional that helped to form the nation it should be mentioned.Thats why influential minority figures, events, accomplishments should be mentioned. I'm talking about things that are omitted and overlooked. Also, not all the presidents were white and not all the major political figures were white.

What problem do you see with that? You can't falsely inflate the percentage of contributions made from minorities simply to make schools cover all races equally, how would that be right?

It would not be falsely inflating anything, it would be giving credit where credit is due. I'm NOT saying include non-stories .