Debunking White Privilege

reply to post by acmpnsfal


I'll reply to your reply about my reply, I don't think you are wasting your time and honestly hope you don't feel you are either. I read and think about all your posts so you aren't wasting your time in my eyes.

My replies might come a bit slow as my thoughts are more complex than the simple rebuttals I posted in my OP. Please be patient and I'll try to address all your posts.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Clearly, you missed the point. This item is talking more about life in the workplace. This is a problem minorities of all races face in professional careers. White people are the majority in America, therefore most professional careers are dominated by them, so when a white person takes a job somewhere they don't have to think about being the only white person because its pretty much a given that most of the people will be white. Minorities on the other hand don't have this convenience. Think corporate office, law firm, etc. (This also answers number 2)

Understood. Although, why is a job in a corporate office, law firm, etc considered more relevant than other jobs? It's considered bad that whites are a majority in those types of jobs, but not considered bad they are the minority in other types of jobs? MY jobs have all been dominated by Mexicans. In EVERY single job I've held I have been the minority. So I have in fact had to deal with being a racial minority. These jobs were warehouse/factory type jobs, btw.

"deal" might be the wrong word. I didn't have to deal. The fact I was a minority didn't bother me. I adapted to my surroundings, got along with people, actually showed an interest in learning some Spanish words here and there in order to fit in and because I was curious.

How is it a privilege to work with your own race? Even if it IS a privilege, it's all relative. Mexicans would have "Hispanic Privilege" in the work place assuming they wanted to work in warehouse/factory jobs.

So why is it an issue that whites are the majority in a specific field of work, but NOT the majority in another field of work? What I mean is, you say a white person can get a job working with their own race. No, only if they get a specific type of work. So this is the exact same thing for minorities. They could work with mainly their own race if they got specific work too.

But to me this all boils down to: why does it matter what race of people you are working with? In order to be considered a privilege to work with your own race that means working with other races is bad. Why is working with other races than your own bad? The whole notion that "white people have it good because they can work with their own race easily" seems racist at the base of it, because there shouldn't be anything negative about working with other races.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

If a gay couple moved into the same area or a family of traditional Muslims, do you really think they would receive the same treatment? Even Black people still face issues if they seem too "urban."

You kind of proved yourself wrong. It's not WHITE privilege if white people can be affected negatively by it just the same. If a white gay couple moved into an area with traditional muslims, no, they wouldn't be treated well.

Basically my point is, regardless of race, everybody can be discriminated against and treated badly by their neighbors, so how is it white privilege if white people are also treated badly?

reply to post by acmpnsfal
really ??

they still admit that white people are the bulk of welfare recipients and that they receive the majority of the money spent on welfare.

hmmmm, this English translates different for me

Per capita, the welfare received by blacks is much higher than the welfare received by whites.

i never said only whites died in battle, why did you go there?
nothing better to bite at, huh?

ummm, no ... married couples do, but not all service couples with children get SSI or disability or pension or death benefits.
my dad was an honorable service member and i saw -0- benefits from it.
not college, not child-support, not death benefits, nothing ... it happens.

wrong again ... plenty of ppl on SSI get food stamps, housing assistance and schooling on the taxpayer dime.

yes, i saw that and i disagree with it so why change the "topic" now ??
social security is NOT welfare unless you're getting SSI benefits or disability.
hint: SSI = supplemental security income / so yes, you are expected to have additional income, geeeeesh

ETA: i am beginning to think people who use the term "white privilege" should be punished as having committed a "hate crime" because that's all it perpetuates.

reply to post by James1982

The issue is not that you cannot understand, its that you do not try to understand. Like all you've done is complain about ways you are disadvantaged, right? While expressing no empathy or granting credence to complaints of any other groups. You keep jumping to this place where you're like, "i'm white and I have it just as hard as you." While not making an effort to understand anything. Which is just extremely irritating.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

You are not in the out-group, you turn on the tv and see members of your race represented positively everywhere. You dont have to seek it out. This is talking about mainstream media outlets though, not media that was created as a result of lacking said representation.

(cont)

I turn on my TV and see minorities represented positively everywhere just like white people, and that's on regular stations. As much as white people? Absolutely not. Why would they be? They are minorities, that's the whole point. A minority will be represented less than a majority, because there are less of them.

I am positive that on regular TV stations there are plenty of minorities being represented in commercials and on actual TV shows. I watch Law & Order SVU quite often. There is a black detective (Ice T) a black doctor (the coroner, Tamera Tunny or something like that) and an Asian psychiatrist (BD wong) 3 minorities out of about 10 total main characters is a pretty damn fair representation of minorities.

I also watch a lot of science and such shows. Michio kaku (Asian) and Neil Degrasse Tyson (black) are on them quite frequently. They are both highly intelligent and respected people, meaning minorities representing in a very positive light.

Right now as I'm typing this post I switched through exactly 10 channels on TV, watched about 10 seconds on them. Out of the 10 channels, 7 had showed a minority of some type withing the 10 seconds I watched. I think that's MORE than a fair representation of minorities, considering they are minorities. I see nothing at all wrong with the concept that if there are LESS of you, then your race will be represented less. Showing 50/50 white people and black people, or 25/25/25/25 white/black/asian/hispanic would not be a fair representation, because in this country the population is not all of equal numbers like that.

In my mind minorities are represented quite well, at least a fair percentage, and that's not even considering the minority-aimed channels.

reply to post by Honor93

Nope. Per capita just means per person. So while it may be true that a black family is likely to be receiving more assistance than a white family, whites still get the bulk of the money.

reply to post by James1982


And that my friend is entertainment! You also forget that Oprah Winfrey was one of the most watched black entertainers on the TV.

However does that prevent white privelidge.

I will ask you again if white racists exist do they not promulgate white privelidge? If you look at Page 4 you will see my first post?

It would be great if people sought to sold the problem of racism rather than than perfoming the gymnastics of denial at all cost.

reply to post by Honor93


If you're female, why aren't you complaining about how there are female only scholarships? That'd be under male privilege, not white.

All of the white people in the USA are of European decent, they can apply for all the scholarships I linked. Then the two white ones. No one is stopping anyone from creating a white peoples scholarship, as you can see they exist.

The whole reason why there are minority scholarships is because of the disadvantages that minorities faced in the past and present. Do you not know the history of the USA? The civil rights act was only signed in the 1960's.

The majority of private funding goes to white people anyway..

The next table provides information on the distribution of private scholarships by race, but only for students who are enrolled full-time/full-year in Bachelor’s degree programs at 4-year colleges and universities.15 Caucasian students receive a disproportionately greater share of these scholarships. Minority students represent 31.0% of the student population but only 27.5% of the scholarship recipients, while Caucasian students represent 68.2% of the student population and 71.7% of the scholarship recipients. Private Scholarships

www.finaid.org...

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

I have to disagree here. The achievements of non-white people and how they influenced America is largely ignored in US history classes. Native Americans are mentioned but even that is half explained. The contributions of Mexicans and Asians are largely ignored. There are probably others but those are the two groups I can think of off the top of my head. Slavery is mentioned but how crucial it was to America's success is not talked about. Just thought i'd add Black people have done other things for America besides work in the fields, your mind goes there because thats whats taught in school. When I learned about ancient civilizations are usually taught in world history classes. Moot point.

No, my mind doesn't go to slavery because that's what I've been taught. My mind goes there because that's the most large scale, massive contribution that blacks have made in the past to the forming of this country. I was also taught about george washington carver and the tuskegee airmen. Do you think a couple people contributed as much as millions and millions over a long period of time?

I'm not saying minorities get equal play in history class. Why should they? Are you saying that minorities have contributed equally to the formation of this country? The founding fathers were white, all presidents up until Obama was white, major military and political figures were white. Because the number of white people is vastly greater than that of other races, that means white people have a larger contribution to the US than other races, hence more coverage of white people in history classes.

What problem do you see with that? You can't falsely inflate the percentage of contributions made from minorities simply to make schools cover all races equally, how would that be right?

Originally posted by acmpnsfal


The music portion may be a little outdated but the rest is still relevant. I mean in my city there are supermarkets that cater to specific cultural groups because they are not represented in the chain supermarkets. But of course this can vary somewhat. I mean I went into an ACME that was in an area with a high concentration of Jewish people and there were a couple of aisle with Israeli products. But for the most part non-white cultures cannot go into a chain supermarket and find staple food. Hair care products and salons are also things white people can go pretty much anywhere and expect to find which I know black people cannot(I don't know much about hair care of other race).

White or not most Americans who identify as Americans, and not people who have recently immigrated, eat pretty much the same thing. You say non-whites can't find staple food. Sure they can. I've been into plenty of non-white people's houses and they eat the same junk I do.

Food is totally a cultural thing and not a race thing. In Europe there are many specific cultures, who all have different foods. American supermarkets fail at supplying many Authentic European culture foods just as they fail at supplying other ethnic foods.

TV dinners and hamburger isn't white food. It's American food. I think the idea of white privilege applying to supermarket food is totally ridiculous.

As far as salons, many black people have hair that's very different than the hair of not only white people, but many other races. Considering again that blacks are a minority, it only makes business sense to have people on staff that are good at cutting and styling the type of hair that the majority of your customers will have.

Go into a barber shop in the "hood" and I guarantee you there will be almost all people who know how the style and cut black people's hair.

In a white neighborhood they will know how to cut white people's hair. In a black neighborhood they will know how to cut black people's hair. What makes white's more privileged here? Both races can find people who specialize in their type of hair, so how is one better off than the other?

Hispanics and Asians also have hair far more similar to whites than blacks do, so why isn't this called Asian or Hispanic privilege and not white privilege?

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Nope, not at all. When you are not in the majority and not widely represented people tend to generalize between people whose only connection is skin color based on their personal experience or whats seen on tv.

Minorities can be JUST as racist as white people, so things like this are not relevant. Just because there are some racist white people who might contribute bad manners with the other person's race, does NOT mean that as a white person you don't have to deal with the same thing from other races. Meaning there is no privilege involved.

In order for there to be white privilege then no other races would ever be able to attribute a white person's negative actions to their race, which they do. In fact here on ATS I saw someone comment in a thread about someone sexually abusing a minor saying how it was because they were white, as only white people do such things.

That is a perfect example right there. That person attributed the negative act by a white person to them being white. Which is the EXACT same thing as attributing chewing with your mouth open to being black. Absolute proof that there is white privilege in this one.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal


Im glad you realize how incredibly inappropriate someone saying that would be, it does happen. However, it wouldn't happen to someone who was white because its expected for them to succeed.

Expected to succeed in what way?

If a white person was in a track competition against some black runners, I think it would be expected by most people (black or white) for the black people to succeed. If the black person won saying "you're a credit to your race" would have the same meaning and would be just as unacceptable. So what privilege is there to be had when the same thing and the same concept/idea could be said against a white person too?

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

I disagree. One person does not provide the baseline for what everyone of whatever race thinks. I have never asked someone of another race what does their race think about anything, thats incredibly ignorant. Opinions vary from person to person even between people of the same race. See you're learning!

Whether or not you agree or disagree with the idea of asking a single person about racial issues is irrelevant. That's not what the person in the article said. The person in the article said a white person doesn't have to have others asking them to speak for their race, which they DO. I've had people of other races ask me to speak for my race, so the whole privilege of not having to speak for your race doesn't exist.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal


You said all that and you still don't understand the concept of white privilege? Firstly, the US has no official language, some states do though. If you wanted that bilingual job bad enough, you would have learned spanish, correct? See you have a choice here, lol. You can choose not to learn spanish because its not relevant to your widely white world view. You don't have to learn about anyone's culture and if someone elses culture is given some recognition its horrible "multiculturalism." In your mind, everyone has to adjust to your standards. Every other culture is pretty much forced to learn about and function in white society. Do you see how this works now?
.

Come on, please don't play that game. America is an English speaking country and everybody knows it. I don't need it written down somewhere to know this to be true. ALL children that go to school go to ENGLISH class. Many students also learn a second language in school, but it can be Spanish, Japanese, German, or French (those are the main ones) But everybody learns English. Congress and the Senate speak English in their meetings. The president addresses the nation in English. Almost all of our newspapers, magazines, and TV shows and commercials are in English.

What does English speaking have to do with being white? There are countless white countries that do NOT speak English. Speaking English in the USA is not a "white" thing. It's an American thing. I'd expect a German, a Frenchman, or any other white person to speak English if they live in the USA.

English is not MY standard, its the standard of THIS COUNTRY. I already stated how if I moved to another country I would absolutely learn their customs and language. How in the world can you construe this as me thinking everyone should conform to my standards? And then even say such standards are white standards? Trust me when I say there are plenty of black people who expect people who come to this country to learn English too.

Your not only twisting my words but your missing my point. The person who wrote the article say it's a white privilege thing to be able to remain oblivious to the other cultures of the world without a negative impact in my own culture. This is NOT a white issue AT ALL. Black Americans are totally ignorant of other world cultures, Asian Americans are completely ignorant of other world cultures, Hispanic Americans are completely ignorant of other world cultures. So it has NOTHING to do with race at all. How is it a white privilege if blacks, asians, and hispanics enjoy the exact same privilege of not knowing about other world cultures?

Please, please please explain to me how you think that a person not knowing about other world cultures is a white thing at ALL?

You also say every other culture is forced to live and learn white culture. Really? The person who wrote the article was talking about WORLD cultures. The majority of which are Indians and Asians. They are hardly forced to live in white society. Go to India or China and it's not white society there at all. Would I complain about being forced to live in Indian or Chinese culture? NO! Because I was the one that went to live there. I would assimilate and join the culture.

You again twist my words, and not only that but actually fabricate them as well. When did I say learning about other people's cultures or giving them recognition is "horrible multiculturalism"

There are minorities in this country just as completely ignorant of other cultures as whites are, so it's impossible for this to be white privilege.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal


Eh, depends on the issue, no? It seems like everytime an controversial issue comes up on ATS people jump out of the woodwork to make whatever the minority group may be (race, sexuality, religion) seem like the bad guy. How do you think this works in the real world?

The only thing that depends on the issue is who is going to be attacking you for your point of view. That's what I'm getting at, regardless of your race, or your point of view, SOMEONE will always be attacking you for your views. Whites are not immune from this, therefore it's impossible for it to be a white privilege, as whites simply don't have it all

Originally posted by acmpnsfal


This is not true at all. Minorities are not at all coddled when they bring up race, unless it has merit. But see this entire response goes back to what she wrote, does it not? You feel like as a white person you have the final say in whether or not something is racist.

Is there a reason why you continually put words in my mouth or tell me how I feel? Where did I say I have the final say in whether something is racist, let alone because I'm white?

The idea that whites are discriminated against or the victims of racism is denied, laughed at, and the people proposing such things accused to racism. Like the kids who cannot change school because they are white. By definition that is racism or discrimination against whites. Because they are white, and no other reason at all, they are not allowed to change schools. Here on ATS when some people called it racist people denied it and said "poor poor white people"

At a job, if an employee who's a minority accuses someone of racism it's a serious issue. If a white employee were to accuse someone of racism they would most likely be laughed off the job. That is the common attitude towards this sort of thing and there is no way you don't know this is true.

Bottom line, I'll reiterate what I said originally. Accusations of racism or discrimination made by a minority are taken far more serious than those of a white person. Whatever a white person says they are going to end up getting called racist eventually.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal


Yes, because every minority that works with an affirmative action employer is unqualified for the position. No minority could ever get a job without the help of affirmative action because they are all too dumb. This is basically what you are saying. I bet if there was some type of AA policy in government people would say Obama was only president because of it.

No, that's not at ALL what I'm saying. Although, if I was a minority that's what I would take AA itself as saying, and be quite offended

The woman who wrote the article claims white people have the privilege of not having co-workers question whether or not you are an AA hire. That's not some privilege whites get because they just have it so easy. That's just a byproduct of AA itself. A white person cannot be an AA hire, therefore nobody can question whether or not she is.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

No, you missed the point. Arranging activities is basically planning things so that you are mostly around other white people. Which is quite easy for white people to do and not so much for minorities. And I can't believe you think that a minority should not do something simply because they face racial rejection. Wow....just wow.

Wow indeed... now I'm starting to believe you are intentionally twisting my words instead of just doing it by accident. I feel like I'm the one who wasted my time replying to you, as most likely you will twist whatever you can to make it seem like I'm saying something I'm not.

She is saying she can arrange her activities around as to only associate with whites. I'm saying she can't, it's impossible. Other than simply having only white friends, but there are other people you have to interact with regardless of their race if you are going to do certain things. And if she absolutely cannot be around any other race than white people, then she can just not do certain things where she'll have to interact with other races.

I said minorities have that EXACT same option and ability. Your saying minorities should have more rights and options than white people? See I can twists your words around too.

There can't be a white privilege here if minorities have the exact same options as whites.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Ummmm, firstly, the fact that the "flesh" colored bandage would resemble white skin is a problem in and of itself. Flesh comes in all different colors, thats why crayola got rid of the flesh colored crayon. Anywho, those bandages would not work for Asians or any Indians, lol. But you are still leaving out a rather huge population of Latinos who would also not be able to use them. Whatever this ebon-aide is, I have never seen it, you can't walk into wal-mart and buy it. So moot point.

Why wouldn't they work for Asians? I don't know if you've never seen an Asian person before, but many of them have a skin tone nearly identical to white people. Some are darker, some are lighter, but same goes for white people. By Indians I mean people from India and not Native Americans. Many Indians also have a light skin tone. Many latinos also have skin tone nearly identical to white people. I could post up some pictures of Asians, Indians, and Latinos who basically look white despite their factual features and what not if you don't believe me. For every single race or skin color some are lighter and some darker, but I don't even know why I'm bothering to argue this point, because it doesn't matter.

The majority of the people have skin that blends in with the flesh colored band aids. What makes more sense, selling a bandaid that blends in with the majority of your customer's skin, or selling a bandaid that blends in with none or very few of your customer's skin?

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
In California students are required to take Spanish so they can understand the Spanish speaking people.

Why can't they be required to learn English?

That's what I just don't get.

Us bad white people are being intolerant and white-centric thinking only about ourselves when we refuse to learn a different language in our own country.

What does that make foreign people when they refuse to learn the language spoken in the country they move to?