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My Proof: Gods - Holy Books - Unfair

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posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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Hello everyone, thanks for opening this thread and I hope you will read on to see what I have to say.

Point to prove:

All gods accompanied with a holy book are an unfair concept and therefore not from the so called and desired "God".

Proof:

To make you understand my point I will put it all into an example.

Think of a soccer team (or any other sport). We have the players and the coach. Imagine the 20 man squad are all from different nationalities and all speaking their own language and in some instances the language from their neighboring countries. The coach speaks luckily all of their languages and can communicate with every each one of them. (This will never happen in a sports world, but that's not the point)

The first time they all meet, the coach decides to gather them around and telling them what he expects from them and what the rules are under his regime. Instead gathering them all up, he calls just one of the 20 man squad and tells only him in his language all he had to say. Then the training starts and also the season soon after. The chosen player decides to write down in his own language what the coach told him and hung it up on the wall for everyone else to read. The problem was that not everyone understood his language. It took them a very long while until some of them got the message.

In fact the season had ended and still not everyone really understood what the coach wanted from them.

Looking at this fictional example, I conclude that the coach acted really unfair, given his ability to talk all their different languages. He chose not to and that was not very wise.

I know by now you all know where I am heading. Just replace the players with all these different nations of our world and obviously the coach was our own God.

Our Gods (Christianity, Islam, Jew...etc.) decided to bless us with their message, a message to all humankind. But they chose to communicate that very "important" message like the coach of our example did.

He sent his words to Jesus/Mohammad...., with that he chose a particular country, with a particular language and, well hoped that his words will reach every corner of this world without being altered or even destroyed on its mission.

The sad truth is that not even today, more than 2000/1400 years later these words reached everyone. We have still starving children dying at the age of 2/3/4/5 because of mal-nutrition. They will never read Gods messages. I cannot believe this.

The point is that all these Gods from all these holy books talk of God as the wisest and fairest of them all and yet he decided to enter the scene in the most unfair and unwise way.

Would love to know your thoughts on this and also debate some of our religious members.

Thanks for reading and giving me your time.

StringTh




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by StringTh
 


Dear StringTh,

How bout this, what if he handed someone a ball and told them to come up with their own game and that he would be back later to see how we were doing. He then goes into the woods and watches as we learn to create our own games. Would that be fair, to let us be in charge of our lives and be responsible for our decisions? Why does God have to be so dictatorial? People either want God to dictate their lives to them and prevent all problems or just be a giant Santa Claus and both would deny us our ability to determine who we are for ourselves.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by StringTh
 
My opinion (I'm a christian): long story short, sin is not imputed where there is no law; we are judged according to the light we are given.

The gospel is just that: the Good News, with a call to repentance.

Otherwise, at the great white throne for those not previously raised in Christ, we are judged according to what we have done/not done: how we have responded to the law of god as written on the hearts of all men - our conscience.

Take care.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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The starving children question is a simple question with a simple answer.
Its the fault of man. there no such thing as a food shortage. there is plenty of food already and plenty of land to grow it. the reason people starv is because of greed. think about..europeans and westen/developed nation hog everything. the average american eats about 3000 calories a day.many people eat way more. we only need less than 1000 to be healthy. dont beleve me? i eat less than 1000 and im a healthy. my weigjt is healthy to. 3000vs 1000.thats means the average person eats at least 3 times to much or more than they need. if developed countrys sent 1/3 of all there food to people who need it there would be know more starvation. we are capable of feeding the entire world but most people want it all to themselves. its not gods fault.. it our fault. we can change it but most people choose not to.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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Well lets look at it from a Christian perspective.
The coaches (Gods) message
You are a bad player who cant win a game, fortunately I am a very good coach who can win every game , no other coach understands the game and how you play it like I do.
If I coach you, this team will go to the finals the nationals and the olympics the universitics even. We may get beaten a few times but thats part of our learning. We will win in the end While I am coach.
All you have to do is believe me trust in what I can do and be as nice to everyone as you possibly can be. I want others to play on my team as well.
Now remember when I said you are a bad player, I know you will always be a bad player. Thats ok, its a tough and mean game and its not fair, I know how to use the rules to win, I will use my power to help you win so trust me. Accept what I have said and I will coach you to be a better player. To win. You cant on your own.

Its that simple. Thats the message.
So many others who know nothing add their silly beliefs to the message.
Eating crayfish, how incredibly ignorant.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by StringTh
 


The resounding message in most "holy books" is that God is found within... Not within a book...

Of course that also depends on where you look...




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by StringTh
 


Your premise is that we are not going to receive truth together and that we live once. Change your premise and you can see it clearly.

1) We preexist this life and will live again in another.

2) Jesus said, "you must be born again." In other words, you will be born again. This is a process of rising to new life from the one before. Paul spoke of the resurrection on the last day of one week (7000 years) spent here on Earth. The six thousand years we lived our lives is then finished in a single day called the Day of the Lord, also 1000 years of peace on Earth.

3) Elijah is pictured as turning off the water (of life) in 1 Kings 17. He is then pictured in the same chapter as taking the widow woman's son up stairs and restoring his life, then bringing him back down again to the mother. We next see Elijah as John the Baptist. He is baptizing people in the water so they can raise to new life. His key mission is to prepare the way for the teacher (Jesus).

4) Preparing the way is turning on the water for all souls to return on the last day for a purpose. Paul, in Acts 24, said that the resurrection would include BOTH the righteous and wicked. When?

5) Revelation 1:7 Every eye will see and every knee will bow, even those who pierced Christ. All of us are here. All 7 Billion souls are here. Why?

The Day of the Lord is the day we receive teaching from Christ, the enemies of mankind are bound and we have a fighting chance to know the truth apart from the enemy deceiving us.

The fact that it will happen is not dependent on the team winning. We will win. The events that will happen will not determine the outcome for you or me. Our own choices will do this. We are a reflection of our past. God knows us and doesn't need our testimony. Our lives are the testimony and actions speak in all languages. The truth is written on our hearts already in a single language of our DNA.

John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

The fact that he told us is a miracle. The fact that we can understand and that the internet gives us the ability to spread the good news to the wicked is astonishing. Jesus said he came for the sick and dying, not the righteous. They are already healthy. I assume God speaks to the unrighteous clearly. The rest are who and where they need to be.

How many lives have we each lived? At least 2. This one and the one before the resurrection. Maybe many more. Have you heard the good news in another life? Likely. We definitely have access to it now. Either way, it's already written on our hearts.





edit on 6-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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Yahweh didn't send any words to Muhammad, that was the other guy. The line of the prophets ended with John the Baptist.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Oystermon
The starving children question is a simple question with a simple answer.
Its the fault of man. there no such thing as a food shortage. there is plenty of food already and plenty of land to grow it. the reason people starv is because of greed. think about..europeans and westen/developed nation hog everything. the average american eats about 3000 calories a day.many people eat way more. we only need less than 1000 to be healthy. dont beleve me? i eat less than 1000 and im a healthy. my weigjt is healthy to. 3000vs 1000.thats means the average person eats at least 3 times to much or more than they need. if developed countrys sent 1/3 of all there food to people who need it there would be know more starvation. we are capable of feeding the entire world but most people want it all to themselves. its not gods fault.. it our fault. we can change it but most people choose not to.


Usually the food that is sent by relief groups doesn't reach the hungry because corrupt politicians in their own country keep it from them because they want them hungry so they can control them. so don't blame the west for this.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:43 PM
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Who knows why God does what he does? If you believe the Christian idea that God revealed himself to the Jews and that then Jesus arrived and told his followers to preach his message to the world, it seems God wants man to be his brother's keeper, he wants Himself taught from one human to another. Why? I don't know. And if this is the case, why not just appear once to one group? Should Jesus have appeared simultaneously in every country of the world? Maybe he could have. But then, he was human. So he probably couldn't have.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Yahweh didn't send any words to Muhammad, that was the other guy. The line of the prophets ended with John the Baptist.


Not so fast, the line of OLD TESTAMENT prophets ended with John. Ephesians 4 would be silly if the Holy Spirit didn't gift some as prophets.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Yahweh didn't send any words to Muhammad, that was the other guy. The line of the prophets ended with John the Baptist.


Not so fast, the line of OLD TESTAMENT prophets ended with John. Ephesians 4 would be silly if the Holy Spirit didn't gift some as prophets.


Well that one slips my mind because the only one in the NT that was major was Apostle John. Peter did have a prophecy ontop of Simon the tanner's house regarding Cornelius but it was a short range prophecy.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Thanking everyone for answering back. I truly appreciate it.

My question was rather a simple one and none of your answers did touch on that.

Why did god choose one person, nation and language to transmit his message? Why was i not able to have gods message 200 years before my neighbours?

I'm late for work or I would have loved to answer each one of you. Which I will do when i come back.

Thanking you again for your time.

PS: I have red the bible twice and thh Koran once. I do not pretend to now everything but enough to have red every single quotes that was posted on here.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Yahweh didn't send any words to Muhammad, that was the other guy. The line of the prophets ended with John the Baptist.


Not so fast, the line of OLD TESTAMENT prophets ended with John. Ephesians 4 would be silly if the Holy Spirit didn't gift some as prophets.


Well that one slips my mind because the only one in the NT that was major was Apostle John. Peter did have a prophecy ontop of Simon the tanner's house regarding Cornelius but it was a short range prophecy.


Judah and Paul prophesied as well, Paul heavily.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 07:28 AM
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Who assumed god was multi-language.

It appears he only spoke Sumerian or Aramaic.

Jesus spoke Aramaic, had the same blonde hair and blue eyes as King David.

All those original folks, made in god's image, had blonde hair and pale blue eyes.

The rest didn't know how to read.

And the coach that walks off to watch, isn't a coach. And the rest of the allegory is...



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by StringTh
 

I completely agree with you, and your analogy was excellent.

I've mentioned repeatedly that Jesus was preaching to a very select group, the lost tribes of Israel...
it was Paul who decided to "spread the message" and start up little franchises all over the place (generally wealthy, and often women -- yep, women -- who had the means to house and feed their little "flocks" who might come).

Then he supposedly sent letters (memos, if you will) to them while he was off trying to recruit new franchisees...

too busy and ambitious to just have one that he looked after, nonono, had to be the boss of everyone...

So, why should anyone except the LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL even be influenced by Jesus' words?

I agree with the message that Jesus reportedly taught, but am not at all convinced that he actually lived;

or that if he did actually live, that he died on the cross;

or that if he did live, and die on the cross he was "resurrected" from actual death.

Never have bought that last bit really, not even as a good little girl in the Episcopal church. For my personality and temperament, just that ONE preposterous story was enough to make me doubt EVERYTHING, from Noah's ark to Jonah in the big fish to all of the other "legends". They seem no more plausible than any of the Greek and Roman gods, in my opinion, and I've often wondered how THOSE legends were finally squelched ----

erm....could it be......Paul's Christian ministry finally bashed them over the heads enough with fear of imprisonment, exile, death, or *gasp* HELL! , that people got tired of being brow-beaten and said, "okay, fine, have it your way, I don't care anymore", flung their hands up in surrender, and just went on about their business muttering, "whatever. believe whatever. I'm tired of arguing with you."

Your points are perfect. Why in that place, to that very select group of people, in that language (which was obsolete fairly soon afterward). What a lame campaign on God's part if that's all "he" had to offer the entire planet's population.

This is why I am inclined to believe that EVERY culture has had wise men and women who taught the same basic things that Jesus reportedly taught....they were ALL every bit as inspired as he was, and to exclude the others is also UNFAIR.
s/f, stringth!
edit on 7-8-2012 by wildtimes because: add reply to line



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by StringTh
 

A very good analogy with the team and religion. I starred and flagged your post just for that. I tend to believe there was a message, at one point in time, but I have discovered a giant hole in Ancient History that should not be there. We think our Earth History began in 3800 BC in Ancient Sumeria, and nothing was before that but hairy barbarians. We assume we, Humanity, are the greatest thing that ever lived on this planet. I can assure you we modern humans are not that at all. Some, myself inclusive, believe Civilizations on Earth go back some 500 million years, and some were so high in intelligence and technology it would boggle our minds to know. But somewhere all this information was lost, or hidden. Today all we can do is track ourselves back to Sumeria 3800 years before Christianity came into being.

I personally believe it to be a Time Rift, which would mean Humanity is no longer on the original timeline. I believe this rift was enlarged and enhanced in 1963, and follows a 20 year cycle from that point on.
Hence, most of our religious texts were provided courtesy of the Church Scribes, who dutifully copied everything the High Priests told them to. I believe the High Priests were being controlled by whoever changed the time line, or whoever was controlling them, and these beings created a control mechanism which would breed hate, violence, war, and money, and would brainwash most of the people into thinking this was the right thing to do.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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AutoW,

I don't know that this Creator god theme is only the Sumerian theme. That is only the pale skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes component for human theme.

The Annunaki were here much before that time, and this is the Africa and the Black Headed ones. Relates back to Mitochondrial Eve sort of issues. And they were just as intelligent way back then.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by StringTh
 


StringTh,

I can understand your confusion and if God wills, I hope that I can make it clear for you.

I am answering for Islam, to clear up your misconception.

The Holy Books are not unfair and most certainly God is not. It is mankind who is unfair, because they changed God's words for their own gain, and severed what God has ordered to be joined.

42:13 He hath ordained for you that religion which He commended unto Noah, and that which We inspire in thee (Muhammad), and that which We commended unto Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying: Establish the religion, and be not divided therein. Dreadful for the idolaters is that unto which thou callest them. Allah chooseth for Himself whom He will, and guideth unto Himself him who turneth (toward Him).


Your theory of the soccer team coach is far from the Truth. God sends Messengers to every nation with the same Message.. that of Worshipping ONLY ONE GOD, and following the Messenger whom He sent. If there are 20 nations for example, with 20 Prophets or 20 members of the team, he talks to each and everyone of them about his gameplan, so that in turn each of the 20 members even if they don't speak the same language will work as one and accomplish the goal. They will all arrive in the place prepared for them, which is Paradise.

3:81When Allah made (His) Covenant with the Prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden which I lay upon you in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.

33:7 And when We exacted a Covenant from the Prophets, and from thee (O Muhammad) and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus son of Mary. We took from them a solemn Covenant;

33:8 That He may ask the loyal of their loyalty. And He hath prepared a painful doom for the unfaithful.

****

So God sent his Prophets, each with a book which confirms each other (there is no contradiction), Abraham, Noah, David, Moses, Jesus and Prophet Muhammad. The Prophets who were given each a book will be approached by a Messenger, who will confirm his book and at the same time announce the coming of the next Messenger after Him. They should help and believe each other, and God is witness that each prophet has agreed to take up this burden.

So the question now is how come that instead of ONLY ONE RELIGION as originally sent down by God, we have now three, namely Judaism, Christianity and Islam( the original religion)?

It is not because the Prophets disbelieved in God and broke their Covenant, but it is because mankind disbelieved in God, and changed the words of the Books for their own gain.

The Prophet Solomon, Enoch, Moses, Jesus, Haggai proclaimed the coming of the Prophet Muhammad but most of the words has been obscured and the name of the Prophet Muhammad has been changed into something else in such wise that no reader of the Bible, Torah or Psalms will recognize him as their prophet whom Jesus and other Prophets before him have announced in their Books.

The Awaited Prophet

Pre-Islam Jews and Christians of Arabia were awaiting a prophet. Before the appearance of Muhammad, Arabia was home to Jews, Christians, and pagan Arabs who, on occasion, went to war with each other. The Jews and Christians would say: “The time has come for the unlettered prophet to appear who will revive the religion of Abraham. We will join his ranks and wage fierce war against you.” When Muhammad actually appeared, some of them believed in him, and some refused. This is why God revealed:

“And when there came to them a Book [Quran] from God confirming that which was with them – although before that they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieved – but [then] when there came to them that which they recognized, they disbelieved in it; so the curse of God will be upon the disbelievers.” (Quran 2:89)

Prophet Moses procllaimed the Prophet Muhammad's coming.

Deuteronomy 18:18 “I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

Deuteronomy 18:19 “And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him.” (in some translations: “I will be the Revenger”).

“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken.” (Deuteronomy 18:15)Who are the brethren of the Children of Israel except the Ismaelites?

continued..



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


God Will Put His Words in the Mouth of the Awaited Prophet

The Quran says of Muhammad:

“Neither does he speak out of his own desire: that [which he conveys to you] is but [a divine] inspiration with which he is being inspired.” (Quran 53:3-4)

2:101 And when there cometh unto them a Messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not,

John 14:16 “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter (Paraclete) that he may abide with you for ever.” (American Standard Version)

Jesus describes the function of the other Parakletos:

John 16:13 “He will guide you into all the truth.”

John 16:8 “he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment.”

John 16:13 “he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak.”

9:61 And of them are those who vex the Prophet and say: He is only a hearer. Say: A hearer of good for you, who believeth in Allah and is true to the believers, and a mercy for such of you as believe. Those who vex the messenger of Allah, for them there is a painful doom. -

John 14:26 “and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

In this verse, Jesus promises that another “Comforter” will appear, or Paraclete, which came from the Greek word Perykletos which means Praised One or Muhammad in Arabic.

61:6 And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One (Muhammad). Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.

Jesus did confirm the Torah and mentioned the Messnger coming after him. He did not break God's Covenant.. so who did? Why do some Christians still reject the Prophet Muhammad?


25:1 Blessed is He Who hath revealed unto His slave the Criterion (of right and wrong), that he may be a warner to the peoples.

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things.

After the Prophet Muhammad there will be no more prophets, he is the last one until the Day of Judgment.

Jesus said that his (Prophet Muhammad's) coming is the first sign of the Hour!

We are the last generation, and we all belong to the nation of the prophet Muhammad, and we will all be judged according to the Book that he brought.

4:41 But how will it be with them when we bring of every people a witness, and we bring thee (O Muhammad) a witness against these?

6:19Say (O Muhammad) : What thing is of most weight in testimony? Say: Allah is witness between you and me. And this Qur'an hath been inspired in me, that I may warn therewith you and whomsoever it may reach. Do ye in truth bear witness that there are gods beside Allah? Say: I bear no such witness. Say: He is only One God. Lo! I am innocent of that which ye associate (with Him).

Our God is not unfair, nor are His Holy Books.. it is the disbelievers who are unfair to their souls.

2:140 Or say ye that Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know best, or doth Allah? And who is more unjust than he who hideth a testimony which he hath received from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what ye do.

My challenge to the believers of One God..

57:16 Is not the time ripe for the hearts of those who believe to submit to Allah's reminder and to the truth which is revealed, that they become not as those who received the Scripture of old but the term was prolonged for them and so their hearts were hardened, and many of them are evil-livers.
edit on 7-8-2012 by queenofangels_17 because: (no reason given)





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