Adam and Jesus...the "sons of God"

reply to post by jmdewey60

Do you think every person who was born from the work of a fertility clinic is a miracle?

Of course not.
The person is still the product of a sperm and egg.... being made to do their thing by a third party.
The biology between the sperm and the egg remains the same.

But now that you mentioned people born of the work of a fertility t, it is indeed an interesting thing to ponder over. I have never met anybody who was born from the work of a fertility clinic. I would like to meet one... just for curiosity's sake.

Paul said Jesus was in the form of god. I think the only persons who would be "in the form of God" would be a god.

The OT also mentions something about humans being created in the "image of God", but it doesn't mean that Adam was a god.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Also, what is it with Romans 8:19 that you have been adding in the edits of your last few posts?

Is that being directed towards me, or am I over analyzing?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The OT also mentions something about humans being created in the "image of God", but it doesn't mean that Adam was a god.

I don't think those two things are related. Being in the form of God, and being made in the image of God. Jesus was not "made" in that form, he just was. Jesus was made into a human, from what he was before, which was the son of God.
You are over anylizing, the quote is not "directed" at anyone, just decided to start adding that as an extra.

reply to post by jmdewey60

You are over anylizing, the quote is not "directed" at anyone, just decided to start adding that as an extra.

whoops.. sorry.
I tend to do over-analyze things sometimes.

Jesus was not "made" in that form, he just was. Jesus was made into a human, from what he was before, which was the son of God.

Well, who exactly had Jesus make that transition from his pre-existent form to his physical form (starting from an embryo)

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Sk0rpi0n, do you really think that God would hand over the reigns of heaven to someone who wasn't divine from the beginning?

Do you really think it's a coincidence that the ground that Jesus walked on is surrounded by people and religions that don't believe in the deity of Jesus and yet the whole Bible talks about that fact?

Do you really think it's a coincidence that the Qu'ran is practically a forgery of the Bible, with the exception that Jesus' deity has been removed from it? We all know that Muhammad was well versed in the Torah before he ever came up with the Qu'ran and we all know that Satan has a long history of trying to remove Jesus from the scene from the very beginning as well as to try and copy anything Jesus did for the events that he couldn't stop from happening.

What explanation do you have for that? Do you not see prophecy coming true from what's written in the Bible? Satan is going to COPY God again in the form of the Anti-Christ. What makes you think that Muhammad wasn't one of the tools that Satan used to copy God and the Bible in earlier times?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Well, who exactly had Jesus make that transition from his pre-existent form to his physical form (starting from an embryo)

God, but what that means does not become significant until he actually becomes a man.
In his earlier state, he would have been virtually God. What I imagine is something like a higher authority than an individual, what you would call the council, but referred to in the singular (still as God).

I think this site saw a lot of what I saw when reading the Bible.

There are a lot of really good points so I am asking those of you who have an open mind to read all of the text in its entriety and decipher meanings that could indeed be applied when it comes to Adam and Jesus.

Im still a frim believer in reincarnation and the laws governing this planet.

Our soul has to evolve just as everything else .... It matters! ;-)

www.near-death.com...

reply to post by Deetermined

Sk0rpi0n, do you really think that God would hand over the reigns of heaven to someone who wasn't divine from the beginning?

Not at all.

I believe Jesus is given charge of everything.And I can produce proof from the bible.


"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me"

Does NOT contradict what I believe in at all.

Do you really think it's a coincidence that the Qu'ran is practically a forgery of the Bible, with the exception that Jesus' deity has been removed from it?

The Koran only repeats the stories of the Bible. Thereby confirming what you yourself believe in.

But in reality, the bible that you believe is comprised of the concepts and ideas of a people who follow something that is unlike what YOU believe.

The truth is that Christian theology is a forgery of Hebrew beliefs. The only exception being that the "messiah" has been turned into divinity. You borrow the idea of the "messiah" from the Jews/Hebrews but you modify it into something else.

The Hebrews gave to Christians and Muslims the concept of the "messiah".

The difference between Jews, Christians and Muslims is this :
(If I say something that is right, then God has inspired me. If I say something that is wrong, then it is my own mistake.)

The Jews understood what the messiah is, but missed him when he showed up.
The Christians know the messiah,. but understood him the wrong way.
The muslims understood what the messiah is AND knew him, despite not being around when he showed up.

I am neither Jew nor Christian nor Muslim.
I was not there when Jesus walked the earth.

Yet, from my exposure to the bible and the Koran, I can say , I believe out of faith, and nothing else.. that Jesus was the Messiah. Judge me any way that you want to.

Now, I ask you....Who or what inspired me to accept Jesus as the messiah.

What explanation do you have for that? Do you not see prophecy coming true from what's written in the Bible?

The bible is YOUR holy book, not mine. Your interpretation of the bible is not the same as mine.
I respect the bible, but will not hesitate to point out contradictions within it.

reply to post by MamaJ


I think your link has a tendency to cut verses short without looking at the surrounding verses for context.

Although verse 45 is used in your link to support the idea that Jesus is the reincarnation of Adam, I don't believe that the surrounding verses support that theory, but I'll let everyone read it for themselves to draw their own conclusions.

1 Corinthians 15:45-50

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

I'm throwing this next verse in for good measure.

John 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The flesh is totally separate from the Spirit until one acknowledges Jesus as the HEAVENLY Son of God, the only being perfect enough to wipe out all sin. Adam would never have come close to representing perfection.

Further, the reincarnation link keeps trying to point to the similarities of Adam and Jesus being "the first and the last". If there was really a "first and last" theme running throughout the entire Bible, wouldn't it make sense that Jesus' lineage would have come through Adam and Eve's first son instead of their third son?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You're right. Jesus is given charge of everything by God, including the New Jerusalem. So, what makes you think that God would give Jesus charge of everything without him being divine?

reply to post by Deetermined

So, what makes you think that God would give Jesus charge of everything without him being divine?

The messiah was never defined as being divine in the first place. Or the jews would have understood the messiah to be divine from their own scriptures.

Christianity is rooted in Hebrew concepts. And it basically stole Hebrew concepts of a human messiah and redefined it to mean "messiah" meant some kind of divine status.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Or the jews would have understood the messiah to be divine from their own scriptures.

They did, and that is in the Minor Prophets.
The beginning of Mark quotes Malachi which describes the one the road was being prepared for as Adonai.

The flesh is totally separate from the Spirit until one acknowledges Jesus as the HEAVENLY Son of God, the only being perfect enough to wipe out all sin. Adam would never have come close to representing perfection. Further, the reincarnation link keeps trying to point to the similarities of Adam and Jesus being "the first and the last". If there was really a "first and last" theme running throughout the entire Bible, wouldn't it make sense that Jesus' lineage would have come through Adam and Eve's first son instead of their third son?

reply to post by Deetermined


So your interpretation and or opinion of 45 on through is cited above and Im sorry but I do disagree with your opinion.

The one site I referenced is one of many.

There were many sects back in The day who believed Jesus was clear he was the first man and many like myself still hold onto said belief.

There is also MUCH MORE you didnot cite from the link I referenced whereas it gives a much clearer picture that he in fact was the incarnation of Adam. He was first born from dust and the last man was born of spirit, hence his spirit evolved to Christ and I agree much more heavenly. Jesus did in fact recognize and remember who his soul and spirit is and was to become for " man".

As far as his third son? Jesus was Adam.... Not his son.

Jesus referred to himself using the phrase "Adam Kadmon" [Son of Man] to refer to the heavenly apocalyptic figure who is to come. Paul used the phrase "Adam Kadmon" as the archetypal man created in God's image who was the first and perfect representative of humanity who would return at the end of time and restore all things.

Here both are said to be the son of God...

Adam: "the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God." (Luke 3:38) Jesus: "I believe that you are the Christ, the son of God." (John 11:27)

Here Jesus is The first born of every creature...

Adam: "The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." (Gen. 2:7) Jesus: "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature" (Col. 1:14-15) Adam ("ben elohim") is translated as "Son of God". This means Adam is first born to God.

Both are rulers over creation....

Adam: "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the Earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." (Gen. 1:28) Jesus: "These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation." (Rev. 3:14)

There is so much more on just that one site I linked.

Here is another link as well if anyone seriously wants to take all things into account in regards to Adam and Jesus or the fact reincarnation happens to all of us. :-)

reluctant-messenger.com...

reluctant-messenger.com...

www.comparativereligion.com...

There are LOADS of i formation regarding the early Christians and belief in reincarnation. It was not just a Gnostic belief.... Many sects believed in it and its my belief its in the Bible if one chooses to keep an open mind while reading it, they too will see what Im talking about!!

Eta... History of the idea in reincarnation goes waaaaaaay back. Check it out!

en.wikipedia.org...

Psychiatrist Ian Stevenson, from the University of Virginia, investigated many reports of young children who claimed to remember a past life. He conducted more than 2,500 case studies over a period of 40 years and published twelve books, including Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation and Where Reincarnation and Biology Intersect. Stevenson methodically documented each child's statements and then identified the deceased person the child identified with, and verified the facts of the deceased person's life that matched the child's memory. He also matched birthmarks and birth defects to wounds and scars on the deceased, verified by medical records such as autopsy photographs, in Reincarnation and Biology.[71] Stevenson searched for disconfirming evidence and alternative explanations for the reports, and believed that his strict methods ruled out all possible "normal" explanations for the child’s memories.[72] However, a significant majority of Stevenson's reported cases of reincarnation originated in Eastern societies, where dominant religions often permit the concept of reincarnation. Following this type of criticism, Stevenson published a book on European Cases of the Reincarnation Type. Other people who have undertaken reincarnation research include Jim B. Tucker, Satwant Pasricha, Godwin Samararatne, and Erlendur Haraldsson.

reply to post by MamaJ

Jesus: "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature" (Col. 1:14-15)

Oh my! I did not know that one....
EXCELLENT post, MamaJ.....
I look forward to reading the links.

So, *coughs*, does that mean, as the eldest child, that....I'm.....you know.......erm,............ "special"?

reply to post by wildtimes


Awesome!

Hahahaha..... Maybe so!

Ya know, i had not remembered reading that either. Its always fun to me to go back and read something again that at first glance was hidden. :-)

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

The messiah was never defined as being divine in the first place. Or the jews would have understood the messiah to be divine from their own scriptures.

I don't agree entirely. What I do know is that the Jews had a long history of not understanding scripture or anything that was told to them by God or Jesus.

Isaiah 9:

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Christianity is rooted in Hebrew concepts. And it basically stole Hebrew concepts of a human messiah and redefined it to mean "messiah" meant some kind of divine status.

Not sure that it really matters one way or the other as long as everyone understands that God sent Jesus to die in order that we might have eternal life in Heaven with him, which is something most Jews still don't understand today. So, I'm not sure why it would surprise anyone that they might overlook the divine status of Jesus either.

Everything changed in the 19th century when it was discovered that the Adam and Eve story goes way back before Moses. It gets much more detailed, and more complex when you get to the root of the story. The answer to the stories of ancient times are that there actually were beings on the earth that were considered gods and they did sin, it is a fact now.

What this would mean is that Jesus was created by ETs, because of the star and the mysterious birth of Jesus. Adam too, was created by them.

The Sons of Gods.

originally posted by: MamaJ
What If Jesus was Adam? :-)

Jesus has evolved into the light. He is our light that shines in the darkness so we can see clearly. :-) thats pretty divine. Lol

Namaste, my friend. Yes, this is correct. Master Jesus incarnated many times before he became the Jesus we all know and love. Adam was one of his first incarnations. The Bible tells you this but more as a riddle. Remember that we all do the same thing. We reincarnate many times to learn something each time. We bring this experience back to God. Because after all, we are ONE with God.

originally posted by: Akragon
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

BUT...

what if the human is not divine, yet the spirit within said human is?

Matthew 6:25
Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

The human body and its vehicle, The Ego, is a creation of the Physical Realm. No matter how you look at it, All of Creation is Divine, if you believe the definition of Divine to be of God. The Spirit that embodies the Human Body is much more "evolved" and has much more Light. The Spirit is the original Design and Blueprint of the God Being that is part of God since the beginning. But the Physical Body is still part of God. However, it is only an instrument designed for the Spirit to traverse the Physical Realm as we know it. As you continue your journey on Earth over many lifetimes, you embed into different bodies. Eventually, you will learn to "evolve" that body into more Light. Thus, you can bring it into a more powerful status as a Human Being in the 4th Dimension. But in the 4th, you are no longer called a Human Being. You are generally called a Super Human or a Light Being. Because you look like a Light Bulb, glowing and transmitting great energy.

So it is incorrect to call a Human Body not Divine, for even the bug on your windshield is Divine, working its way to a higher "evolution," just like we are in Human Form. It (the bug) is a creation of God, putting it even more Divinely, your own creation.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

You're right and you're part wrong. All firstborn Hebrew males belong to God in Biblical sense. Be it firstborns among the cattle, first ripe of grapes and olives… up through the ages there have been many attempts at fulfilling this demand from God. Being the oldest brother meant you were expected to continue your father's work, and provide for the family when age would demand it. You can see glimpses of this in the story of Cain and later, when Jacob tricks his brother into giving away his special rights as a firstborn, basically a will or a testament, an inheritance. Because of his trickery, Jacob inherited The Holy Land. Cain, as the Son of Man, inherited a crown of thorns. God's protection, but mind you, the need for it too having to fly away and settle his civilisation east of Eden, in India, where people still carry Cain's mark. Only thing they seem to have lost, is the possibility to show/hide it by will of mind, let alone lining up a seven arch angels out of nowhere in notime.