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Equality in a Surveillance State

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posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Between satellites, cell phones, and other cameras we now have a world that is constantly under total surveillance, or near total surveillance. Certainly, any area with significant population and technology can be potentially watched or listened to.

So, we have a situation where governments and also major corporations (AT&T for example) have access to live feeds of almost any location on Earth. This is a trend that promises to increase as more people buy more sphisticated phones and networks are improved.

Following this logic, a surveillance state becomes inevitable, and is actually probably in existence currently.

My proposal is that a website be made available, accessable to the public, where any location on Earth can be watched live. If the government has unlimited access to watch the people, then the people should have unlimited access to watch the government.

Crime could theoretically be reduced drastically, eveyone would be held completely accountable for actions.

People would be honest.

In a world where the vast majority believe in God, isn't God always watching anyway? It shoudln't matter who is watching you. A person who is confident in their character and self shouldn't really have a problem being observed by anyone. Keeping any type of secret is poision to mentality.

Is privacy more important than accountability when a government threatens to have total control and access of citizens? The only way to retatin some liberty is to put those in power under surveillance in equal amounts to the genral population, and provide universal access.

edit on 6-8-2012 by MassOccurs because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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In a world where the vast majority believe in God, isn't God always watching anyway? It shoudln't matter who is watching you. A person who is confident in their character and self shouldn't really have a problem being observed by anyone. Keeping any type of secret is poision to mentality.

Post your bank account details here, then. Oh, and your medical history, mother's maiden name, date of birth also.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by MassOccurs
In a world where the vast majority believe in God, isn't God always watching anyway? It shoudln't matter who is watching you.


It matters even more to me now that you've said that.. No, god is not watching.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by MassOccurs
 


I agree, if the government and corporations can watch the people, shouldn't the people be able to watch everything the government and corporations do? Yet Wikileaks is harassed? It is true injustice.

But I think you make a good point about a surveillance state having some unexpected, positive consequences IF the people have access to all government and corporate records as well.
edit on 6-8-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by XeroOne

In a world where the vast majority believe in God, isn't God always watching anyway? It shoudln't matter who is watching you. A person who is confident in their character and self shouldn't really have a problem being observed by anyone. Keeping any type of secret is poision to mentality.

Post your bank account details here, then. Oh, and your medical history, mother's maiden name, date of birth also.


Don't tempt me with such things or I just might.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by XeroOne
 


Wouldn't be a problem, an identity thief would be under surveillance and unable to commit the crime. So really, if universal surveillance were in place, there would be no risk in making personal information public.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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Nope. Most the professional identity thieves know how to evade surveillance, and they operate at least partly from other countries.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by XeroOne
 


Well, I'm saying a live feed of anywhere on Earth would be available. I suppose this would be accompanied by some sort of electronic chip tracking system as well.

Why are people so intent on not being kept track of? If you're an honest person just trying to support a family and pursue your happiness without oppressing others, then it's really not an issue. You could live your life exactly as you currently do without worrying about getting shot at the movies or being lied to by your government. Really, you'd end up living much more productively because there always the possibility that your peers are watching what you do.

How much money would be saved on law enforcement and defense?

A worldwide surveillance net is already in place but is used only for societal threats, if not there would be large scale attacks in the western world on a regular basis.. Those that control the system can watch you right now if they so choose but they don't because you don't belong to a terror cell.. So why shouldn't we be able to watch them? A group with access to satellite feeds and other methods has the ability to gain a lot of control by means of blackmail. You could probably have half the senate at your disposal with evidence of corruption and affairs.

Is there any other way to ensure that corruption stays out of government than a network with public access?

I'm surprised no one has brought up the issue of sexual privacy, or the potential for spying on children by pedophiles. My response: there would be less obsession with sex and nudity if everyone saw everyone else naked and it was a normal thing. The naked body is no big deal, neither is sex. And once again, the government can see you doing all that anyway...
edit on 6-8-2012 by MassOccurs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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Why are people so intent on not being kept track of? If you're an honest person just trying to support a family and pursue your happiness without oppressing others, then it's really not an issue. You could live your life exactly as you currently do without worrying about getting shot at the movies or being lied to by your government. Really, you'd end up living much more productively because there always the possibility that your peers are watching what you do.

It comes back to the whole 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' argument, which doesn't actually work in the real world. People would still get stigmatised, blackmailed, coerced or pressured if all their personal details were made available to the wrong people.


A worldwide surveillance net is already in place but is used only for societal threats, if not there would be large scale attacks in the western world on a regular basis..

Surveillance is only a tiny cog in the bigger machine. It's useless without intelligence, which involves analysis, threat assessment, abstraction, etc. The majority of attacks are prevented because the intelligence agencies were already familiar with each type of threat agent. Surveillance only provides specifics to what they already knew.


You could probably have half the senate at your disposal with evidence of corruption and affairs.

The evidence is already out there, but few actually bother calling them to account.


Is there any other way to ensure that corruption stays out of government than a network with public access?

Yes, if people demanded a vetting system for potential representatives and senators, to weed out the ones susceptible to pressure.


I'm surprised no one has brought up the issue of sexual privacy, or the potential for spying on children by pedophiles. My response: there would be less obsession with sex and nudity if everyone saw everyone else naked and it was a normal thing.

Nah, people would stick whack off, and some people would still spy on children to do that. Even worse, that could actually become a norm in the utopia you're proposing.

Some highly intelligent people have shared the same reasoning as yours. They understood that a person's identity can be destroyed by removing all their privacy, and that makes the person easy to control.
edit on 6-8-2012 by XeroOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by XeroOne
 


Right, yeah yeah there's definitely potential for systemic abuse and oppression but what it comes down to is that world wide surveillance exists and is expanding with access limited to a few power brokers, so the choice is either a dystopian Big Brother NWO or a plan to put the citizen on equal footing.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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Ignoring privacy rights, literally handing stalkers their prey, and the fact that general individualized suveillance is almost useless unless specifically targeted upon a person who has flagged otherwise... My God... how boring would it be to just sit around watching the streets of Bakersfield, or Boise???

I'd suggest shows like Big Brother and The Glass House... much more entertaining and way less problematic. Oh and it'd save the hundreds of trillions of dollars that a true and total global surveillance system would cost.

Me? I just watch reruns of Speed Racer. Then again, I'm boring.

~Heff



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


I think criminal mentality would be reduced. It's pretty easy to get away with crime as is and that breeds criminals. It would be less of an option.

Most of the surveillance could probably be done with AI and reviewed by necessity. I think the overall cost of government would decrease due to lower demand for cops, judges, and military expense especially.

And I don't believe in privacy anyway.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by MassOccurs
 


Hyper surveillance probably would not reduce crime. It might speed up the judicial process a bit. But, at least here in Atlanta, I can nighly watch stories that include security camera footage of the crimes.

And,my opinion, absolute privacy is an illusion - and nothing anybody is guaranteed... but reasonable privacy is real, attainable, and one of our legal and God given rights.

~Heff



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


What about the ability to watch government officials and the potential to reduce corruption at the higher levels that may be more responsible for the worst of crime?

ATS would go extinct. No conspiracies only facts.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by MassOccurs
 


Totally transparent government is,by definition, impossible simply due to national security concerns. So that's out of the window, And, yes, this fact is highly abused and used against us... but that does not make it untrue.

~Heff



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


National security concerns wouldn't be so relevant under a transparent one world government.

To bring this about I propose cloning John Lennon 10 million times and have them all singing Imagine 24/7 at busy street corners world wide.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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But some would be more equal than others. People who know how to leverage the information vs. those who don't.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by XeroOne
 


Good point.

Leveraging information is generally what creates wealth and status in the current world as well.



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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People act surprised that our government....or any government....has the ability to monitor anything and everything about you. They have many different avenues, all systems related, of tracking an individual. It's the smart ones who know how to use that against them to stay invisible. Some people have become geniuses at it.


First of all, you will NEVER get any government to allow its citizens the right to use surveillance back against them. It simply isn't economically feasible, possible, or likely in the name of national security. Tell me honestly, could you see a country like Myanmar, China, or Saudi Arabia allowing its citizens to view the inter-workings of their government like a reality tv show? Not a chance....

The average, every day citizen in the "free world" lives in the false knowledge that they have some resemblance of privacy. The reality is you have none... And every day, people openly lose more of their rights because of ideas like this one. You think this will keep corruption in line but it will only make it easier for those who already know how to play the game.



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by CIAGypsy
 


Seeing as your a gypsy, got a question:

As a believer in all types of psychic phenomena isn't this system already in place for those skilled enough to remote view at will?

I really don't think there should be an actual website on the internet and this thread was more experimental and metaphorical. There is a website where you can view any location on Earth, and it is in your deepest mind. I think there are citizens that keep track of the government in this manner and corruption is curbed anyway. I don't think society is as bad as most on this site do.

Noone is ever alone.






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