American workers lack the flexibility, diligence and technical skills of foreign workers, says China

Originally posted by mikellmikell
Jobs are coming back within the next 3 years many companies will be re opening plants . Americans output is 3 times the Chinese. our company is spending a BILLION dollars in the US and right now 82% of our products are built here going to 90% within 5 years

In your opinion, how will the carbon tax affect this 'revival' of the manufacturing industry in the US?

Are you sure this was said by the Chinese Communists and not the United States Chamber of Commerce?...said rhetorically...

Of course, American workers have "low technical skills" nowadays. When manufacturing was leaving decades ago, the American economy wanted workers trained for the service sector, not trained in math or science or what was then vocational skills (wood or metal work).

As long as colleges cranked out business, law, economics, finance, and theology degrees, all would be well. As long as public schools eliminated wood, metal, or engine education and steered students to college degrees, the economy would be well. No Child Left Behind would be sure to test rather than educate.

So, the American workforce, and public education, was steered to produce workers for WalMart, fast food, churches, and banks (and fraudulent loan businesses). The New Economy.

At one time, it was exactly American workers who did this now outsourced work!

reply to post by desert


You say that but things are different, according to the BBC.

The contrast with traditional manufacturing is sharp: Almost no noise, no dirt, little physical effort. And requirements for workers are very different. "You've got to have the smart people that help build it from the bottom up," says AMI President Aaron Crum. "We don't forge things anymore. We use lasers to cut metal, we extrude ceramics, we do things that are different. And so because of it, we need a different labour force to make it happen."

"That path to mass middle-class work is gone," he says. "The only high-paid factory work left is going be people who both programme and maintain machines. That work is going to be high-paid but it requires much higher skills." The US is still a big player in manufacturing. More than 18% of global manufacturing output comes from the US factories. And even if American manufacturing has stumbled a little recently as eurozone orders dry up, many of Michigan's manufacturers are optimistic about the future. But the genie cannot be put back in the bottle. Manufacturing in the US has already changed and will change further, pressed on one side by technology and on the other by globalisation. It will be hugely difficult for less-skilled American workers to attain anything like the living standards of the generation before them.

www.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by deessell

"The only high-paid factory work left is going be people who both programme and maintain machines. That work is going to be high-paid but it requires much higher skills."

Actually, this is pretty much what I said. The skills to "both programme and maintain machines" is NOT what public education has been about.

Those workers who want employment with those "much higher skills" must have both the desire and the aptitude/knowledge to do the work. For those that possess those criteria, they will have those jobs.

While there will still be a need for someone to fix my plumbing, wiring, or roof, using the mind instead of the muscle is what constitutes the "high-paid factory work". At one time, muscle was needed to fly aircraft, now there are aircraft flown from the ground.

When the logging industry, for example, was faced with increased automation, workers had to adjust or no longer have jobs. The chainsaw meant tree fellers didn't need the old type hand saws. Newer automations meant less workers needed for logging and milling, but the logger or mill worker had to be able to use the new automation.

What China had going for it, their national resource, as demonstrated at their Beijing Olympic opening ceremony, was manpower for assembly work.

IMO at this point, those highly skilled jobs will create a smaller corps of workers earning "middle class wages", with a large group of workers engaging in less skilled employment, the reverse of the 20th cent in America.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by acidsweep

 

I am no longer in call centers (as i mentioned) so don't interview for the same skills as i used to. It still amazes me how few people in this part of the world even own a computer. One guy was telling me that he doesn't mind payingmore money for a Trac Fone service because it keeps him from using his cell phone at all. Backwards thinking.

We used to, in the call center world, do a minimum skills test. Things like saving a file to a specific folder, navigating to a web page, or sending an email using a mock email client that was designed to be painfully obvious. About 35-40% failure rate among applicants.

A large section of our applicants live very, very simple lives. They may be only 1 or 2 generations in this country, and not have really solid English skills. VERY frequently in the call centers, our employees would be the wives of oil field labor that was brought in from Mexico in those Worker Visa programs. We often have labor shortfalls during oil booms, and get a transient type population build up around it. The spouses of those workers came to work in the call center usually, since it was good pay indoors without a lot of physical work (we treated them like professionals, and they liked it).

That isn't the entirety, though. There were no shortage of mendicant 18 year olds that could only have received a diploma by being forced through the system. Most of them were thugs, or the girl friends of thugs.


Fast food places around here are generally only staffed with people who can't pass a drug test, or who have wore out their welcome everywhere else in town. Going out to eat in West Texas right now is a miserable experience. There is no staff available

ETA: i would encourage people to move here for work if they are unemployed....but there are also no houses available. The oil field is "importing" employees with families of several children, then putting them up in RV's as their "home". Tents are used, too. People want to come work, but just have nowhere to live. All hotel rooms are sold out everyday of the week in Midland/Odessa (a nearby town). Rooms that would normally sell for 120 a night are going for 250. Look on Kayak.com and try to find a room at a price you would pay in Midland or Odessa TX. A new Fairfield Inn opened last month, they sold all their rooms for the first 3 months before they even opened the doors for business.

edit on 7-8-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

Man, that's horrid if that's the case. Remind me never to open a business in West Texas!! LOL

America just lacks jobs, because the Chinese will do it for next to nothing. But then again, that's because Americans want to buy stuff for next to nothing.

reply to post by olaru12

One group of words that I live by and everyone with a Business should also post these words on their inner office door...EITHER ADJUST TO RAPID CHANGES OR LOOSE OUT! I help run several successful Family Companies that started out as one very small business.

My Father worked very hard and so did our Family Members. As conditions and trends changed...so did we as well as our business then businesses then Companies. I personally started working at 5 years old...taking out the trash for 50 Cents an Hour. The key to success was not just hard work but knowing and understanding the NEEDS OF YOUR CUSTOMERS as well as employing people who could meet those needs.

If a store was located in an area that had a High Level of a specific Ethnic Population...we made sure to hire employees who could speak that Ethnic Language. Also...training of employees to treat people with Respect and Kindness will diffuse just about any customer who walks in the door having a Bad Day. And respecting your employees will generate good will as well as give that employee a sense of purpose, loyalty and most importantly...those employees will respect themselves and find confidence and a desire to be important to the people they work for as well as the customers they serve.

Flexibility...this is one of the reasons why U.S. Workers are rated # 1 as far as being the Most Productive Employees of any Country. The Japanese know this and more Toyota's are built in the U.S. than the rest of the world combined. Flexibility to adjust to trends and rapid changes. Those who cannot adjust and adjusting can be difficult and even costly but when compared to loosing a business...one has to decide if their business is still viable and suck up their ego and if needed...close it down and change the business to what will make money.

The Chinese...are still severely constrained in many areas and Communist Run Companies would rather continue loosing money and use money from other areas to keep a specific Communist Run Company from collapse. The declared...Special Experimental Capitalistic run Companies that grew quickly in number shortly after Hong Kong's lease to the U.K. ended and the Chinese seeing how this Giant Capitalistic City made enormous sums of money...allowed more autonomy for almost Private Companies to form and this has been the reason for the Chinese Boom of a Middle Class.

Still...this topics main statement is very far from reality as when the Chinese had to make the decision of WHERE they would invest their new found riches...out of every other possible country on Earth...they chose to invest their vast majority of Money in the UNITED STATES. This was done for several reasons of which some were due to their Investments security...their low risk high return...the conviction that it would be good for China from a Export Status...and the fact that even though the U.S. is still in an economic down turn...it is also a fact that the U.S. has demonstrated it's ability time and again to return to a High Level of Economic Prosperity which would increase China's Monetary Investment dramatically.

For those who believe it is a PLOT to undermine the U.S. ability to assert itself on a World Deciding Plan of Action...this is BUNK as China has not increased it's security by this investment but has in fact lent Money to a Country that China cannot Force by any means either Militarily or Economically...to PAY THEM THEIR MONEY BACK. If the U.S. and China had a Skirmish...the U.S. could stop payments...stop accepting Chinese Exports of Goods and HAVE NO ABILITY TO STOP THIS. Their Economy is so heavily dependent on U.S. purchases of Chinese Goods that are not Goods that the U.S. has any real need of and can easily build on our own....that the Chinese have placed themselves in a NO WIN ECONOMIC AND MILITARY POSITION.

This is one of the main reasons why China...always practical...has decided to help with North Korea and if you notice...no one hears about Taiwan Invasions anymore. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity



Every thing you say is spot on. Now place that into the following context:

As an employee, I

- enter into an agreement with you for employment. This agreement must meet both our terms, or we do not form an agreement and I do not work for you. As an employee, I am working under a "gentlemens agreement", as there is no contract (unless you are under contract...which I don't really like to do being in a right to work state).

- If we have an agreement, then we are in a relationship where I am the service provider, and you are my client. Therefore, you are the customer to me, your "employee"

- My job as your vendor of services is to identify what services you need and make sure I am prepared to provde those service. Or make sure our agreement covers the need for my adequate capability to provide you the service you need to provide.

So, in essence, as your employee it is my responsibility to ensure I have adequate minimum skill with which to present myself to you with in hopes of getting hired and trained to a further degree. That is how this works. And when I am employed by you, I should be expected to work in earnest and with diligence, as any service provider would give a customer.

This is where we have a problem. Too many people with a college education have no idea how to use it. And too many people who don't go to college have no clue how to develop their skills on their own.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

I believe that kids are going to College are taking courses that have no real use in helping them get a job. I have a friend who has two parents with Doctorates in English Lit....LOL! This and 50 Cents won't buy you a cup of coffee!

Then you have Kids with a High School Diploma or GED without any skill what so ever. The problem is the criteria of a concept of a ROUNDED EDUCATION...as even though it is good to have a good amount of general knowledge...jobs today are VERY SPECIALIZED!

Wasting a KIDS time in High School learning what a 17th Century Poet or 18th Century Author meant when they wrote this or that is a WASTE OF TIME! Give the KID a Computer and teach them how to use it, take it apart, fix it, program it and work with it because THAT is a skill they will all need! Split Infinity

California state colleges charge more/make more money from out-of-state students than local residents. Strangely enough, state colleges quietly push for foreign students and qualified residents don't get in.

It's increasingly expensive for businesses to hire in the US compared to overseas. Even Carls Jr. started shutting down restaurants in California due to overtime laws, someone working 20hr week but more than 8hrs a day gets overtime.

I'm starting a business and it's hard to keep track of what fees, charges, taxes, fines, documents, filings, etc. are required, and I haven't even made money yet.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Tell me about it.

I wouldn't like to see more stifling of the "rounded" education bit, but would rather see kids taught "how" to think, not "what" to think.

Just about all functions of school have been reduced to memorizing. Even math...it is a study in memorization of formulas instead of rationalization of relationships that would allow you to intuit the formula (i am talking about high school level math, not complex calculus).

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

When I refer that too much is concentrated on providing a ROUNDED EDUCATION...I am speaking more to the effect that a Kid who's Parents are shelling out MASSIVE amounts of Money to put them through College or even if the Kid is putting themselves through school by working at night....and the College forces them to take MANDATORY COURSES of which some are good and others are ABSOLUTELY USELESS other than provide those who are dictating curriculum to for students for what THEY believe is necessary knowledge.

I believe that if you are paying for an education for the sole purpose of obtaining A JOB...then the process should be directed to allow a student the ability to gain the greatest amount of knowledge to perform that JOB!

Sure...we all need to have knowledge in other areas besides what we do for a living but not at the expense of Graduates coming out of school without enough ability of knowledge to be able to do the job that they went to College to get a degree to be able to obtain that job! Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Its not about what someone believes is good knowledge insomuch as it is about making incremental revenue.

If you think 20% of a degree curriculum is "fluff", that is 20% more revenue that the school is generating that they otherwise wouldn't.

Same with transfer credits. Sure, it may be a way for them to ensure the credibility of their institution....but it is more likely to be used as a way to fill in budget shortfalls.

I am from the hospitality industry. We specialize in driving incremental revenue through toll based amenities. For example....you like that bottle of water in your room? Go ahead....open it....that'll be $8. Thank you, come again.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

If you think 20% of a degree curriculum is "fluff", that is 20% more revenue that the school is generating that they otherwise wouldn't.

To be fair, how would you know that? You admitted that you don't have a degree. What you do mean by 'fluff'?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

I agree...it is a monetary thing. Split Infinity

Originally posted by deessell

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

If you think 20% of a degree curriculum is "fluff", that is 20% more revenue that the school is generating that they otherwise wouldn't.

To be fair, how would you know that? You admitted that you don't have a degree. What you do mean by 'fluff'?

What are you talking about? I was a Professorial Assistant for some time. I have several Degrees. I was allowed to obtain them by a deal I made which also included my being able to Tour in a signed band as well as when the time came...use certain skills that I was trained to do in my THIRD JOB that was a perfect fit for the Touring aspect.

You must be thinking of someone else. Split Infinity

reply to post by inverslyproportional


This is beyond incorrect, and i'm living proof of it. Have my GED, no college and am above 70% of the population on earnings.

It sounds like you could use a good resume service to help you out.