The Consistent Inconsistencies of Libertarians and Ron Paul

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posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Libertarianism isn’t some cutting-edge new age philosophy that somehow is not part of the political spectrum no matter how often they may claim it is. For all their talk about civil liberties, ending the wars and legalizing pot, it’s all a wet dream. It’s about time libertarians realize this! It is indeed a mixture of contradictions, and the incorruptible Dr. No is no exception to that rule!

Ron Paul and his followers would have you thinking that the Constitution is the Bible, and an individual mandate will be issued to all US citizens to only follow libertarian way of thinking. Because it’s the right one! After all, all of the founding fathers were libertarians. Reagan was a libertarian, Lincoln was a libertarian, FDR was a libertarian. Even Dennis Kucinich would be a great Vice President because he aligns with our mainstream views so much!


Despite the Ronulans’ praise for their God. They believe that everyone thinks like them. They believe gay people do not exist. They believe that liberals just live in communist Russia and do not exist in America. They believe that Republicans are the devil that must be destroyed from the inside out! (You can deny all you want but Various libertarians told me these statements on this website)

Even though the polls consistently show that Libertarian philosophy only makes up 7% of the national way of thinking. They continue their rants, chants, slogans, and propaganda. To the brainwashed liberaltarians this propaganda does not exist on the Libertarian battle field because they are right and you are wrong! It’s everyone else that is doing it and definitely not them. They are just spreading the inconsistent message of libertarianism.

They would like to end government programs that are necessary for a functional society at a time, in which our society has never been more interdependent in every possible way. Despite that belief, Ron Paul fellow supporters are more liberal than they are conservative. They use the constitution like the Bible to skew their own viewpoints and say that they are right and you are wrong. They say that in the constitution it says that people have the right to do whatever they want, by quoting, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” They frequently forget to include the other points the Declaration of Independence—Not the Constitution—was making before and after this statement.

Before this statement the Declaration of Independence reads. “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

Yes, the Declaration does in fact talk about how the colonials overthrew the British Government which the libertarians liken to the current bloated US government. However, they fail to see the point. This means that man has a right to form a government, it is up to man to make sure that the government is right, just, and moral. It is up to man to declare what is and what is not allowed in society. It’s not anything goes! It’s up to society, because man makes up society!

The Colonists go on to say that you cannot just want a government destroyed because they do not agree with your world view. The Declaration of Independence then lists all of the charges against the King. These charges were agreed upon by all the people in the colonies! So while libertarians and their social conservative friends may agree at least in the sense that the government has become like the tyranny the colonists endured from Great Britain, until we get the liberals on board and they see the light, there will be no conservative government overthrow!

However, we DO overthrow our leaders. Every four years we elect a new President. Every two years we elect a new house of representatives and a new senate. Still to this day, the Congress and the White House work in checks and balances. If the people do not like a law, they have no reason not to overrule that. Or at least bring it to a President’s attention.

The Constitution on the other hand is a very different piece of documentation. According to Wikipedia “The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the United States of America. The first three Articles of the Constitution establish the rules and separate powers of the three branches of the federal government: a legislature, the bicameral Congress; an executive branch led by the President; and a federal judiciary headed by the Supreme Court. The last four Articles frame the principle of federalism. The Tenth Amendment confirms its federal characteristics.”

According to Wikipedia Federalism is defined as: “a system of government in which sovereignty is constitutionally divided between a central governing authority and constituent political units (such as states or provinces). Federalism is a system based upon democratic rules and institutions in which the power to govern is shared between national and provincial/state governments.”

So even though libertarians would have you believe that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are based on libertarian philosophy it is a complete lie! They are in fact documents that promote building a government. Allowing the colonies which at the time which had different confusing governments to come together in order to build one huge FEDERAL government! It is the largest inconsistency in the libertarian doctrine and one of the biggest reasons why it can never be implemented nationwide without some dictator like rule.

There were many different belief systems among the founding fathers themselves. Political Parties did not exist in the early days of the government. Alexander Hamilton and the Anti-federalists would be considered Republican. Madison wanted a powerful central government and went to great lengths to get what he wanted put inside the constitution and disagreed with Hamilton on numerous occasions. Hamilton believed in a smaller streamlined centralized government. So did Jefferson but as President he used what today would be considered an executive order for the Louisiana Purchase. Many believe that the federalists would be today’s liberals.

I think it’s pointless to think about what political party these people might have been. Everyone has their own ideology and it is what skews their viewpoints about the founding fathers. So to say that the founding fathers themselves are libertarian is ridiculous! To say the constitution or the declaration of independence is libertarian is also ridiculous. It takes power away from the people and gives it to a centralized government! Another huge contradiction rooted inside libertarian doctrine.

Ron Paul is no different. You can’t take Ron Paul as a serious libertarian because he’s not. Otherwise he would be in the libertarian party working to make it more powerful, like Ross Perot did with independents or Gary Johnson with the Libertarians. Instead of hijacking my party, the GOP!

Ron Paul is not a defender of your freedoms or the constitution. Ron Paul style Libertarians change the meaning of the Constitution to further their propaganda as proven above.


edit on 6-8-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-8-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-8-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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The Constitution was prepared and promoted by James Madison and the Federalists who believed we needed a strong federal government that was held accountable through a system of checks and balances. It was opposed by the Anti-Federalists who endorsed a Confederacy of State’s Rights. Sounds like Ron Paul. He would be siding with Hamilton, definitely not Madison!

Ron Paul claims that legalizing narcotics, prostitution, and neutrality on homosexual marriage is a Constitutional defense of individual liberty. Even though states have the right to vote on the morality of the issues? Every man does not have the right to do whatever he wants to do. People vote on the issue and what happens when someone breaks the law. Society tells us what is ok and what is not ok to do. Society also evolves just like the government evolves and Ron Paul’s 1777 view of the world does not!

So who supports Ron Paul? Young people who want sex, drugs, and no war. Who else? Anti-government radicals, conspiracy theorists, social liberals, and casually informed conservatives and Christians who think he is a limited government pro-life conservative. He’s not!


A big talking point of Ron Paul’s is that we should let Israel take care of Israel. We shouldn’t interfere with their politics and that we should leave the entire Middle East alone. Don’t mention to Ron Paul supporters that the US was largely responsible for creating Israel to give the Jews a safe haven away from the horrors they experienced in Nazi Germany. Half of them are probably Holocaust Deniers. Despite thinking that he is conservative Ron Paul’s ideology gets in the way once again suggesting that free trade should trump the Bible! Weather you believe in the God’s word or not consider this. Here in Genesis 12 makes it very clear that God promises His blessing to those people and nations who stand with Israel. So you can see that Ron Paul goes back on his supposed conservative principle.


Ok, that’s him going back on his conservative principles and we all know that he was never really a social conservative by any stretch of the imagination. Recently Ron Paul fell back on his number one talking point. “End the Fed.” I have posted something on this website explaining why ending the fed is a bad idea. Unfortunately it received very little attention. Herman Cain pointed out that Ron Paul has no idea what he would replace the Fed with.

Once again Ron Paul fell to peer-pressure. He decided that he wouldn’t even end the fed completely so auditing the fed is good enough. That fits perfectly with his other weak stances on issues that aren’t really mainstream issues. From his ghost-written racist newsletters to his choices of endorsement for President, Ron Paul is all kinds of inconsistencies. Oh and let’s not forget that he conveniently skipped out on voting against NDAA a bill that he is so supposedly passionately against because he was, “campaigning.”

But Ron Paul supporters will continue to ignore these two whole pages of facts. All of these inconsistencies in Ron Paul’s record will go unnoticed by vocal libertarians and they will call you a troll or ignorant for pointing any of this information out. It must be fun to never be wrong! You can vet Obama and Romney all you want, but in a true free market with free speech I can do the same to Ron Paul. This isn't some huge conspiracy theory linking Ron Paul with the KKK (which there is data to suggest), or linking Ron Paul with groups that fund possible terrorist connections against the State of Israel. This is cut and dry facts about how inconsistent Ron Paul is.

Anybody who follows this man, I find really confusing. Just like how you all find me really confusing for following Romney!
edit on 6-8-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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You want the wars to keep going on to "defend america"?
You want drones flying over your house spying on you?
You want the TSA to pull you over on the highway and search your car for no reason?
We are broke and you want to keep sending money to other countries?
You dont think the fed should at least be audited?
You wanna start another war with iran?



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 
Wow, jjf3rd77. If your posts here weren't so chock-full of straw-man arguments, over-generalization, incorrect assumption, misunderstanding of founding US government structure and intent, blatant falsehood, and a few other things that honestly kind of get on my nerves, I'd be tempted to rebut them.

As they are, though - it's not even worth the time as I'm not sure you're even taking things seriously here. Have a great day!



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Hamilton an anti-federalist? Political parties did not exist? Hamilton FOUNDED the federalist party.

Lincoln and FDR Libertarians?

James Madison wanted a powerful central government?

The constitution takes power away from the people and gives it to a centralized government?

You should get your facts straight before you write drivel such as this. You totally misunderstand all the assumptions you make in your post. Embarrassing.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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I think we should attack Israel ourselves and destroy them that way we can rub it in the face of Iran. Then we'll be known as true fighters of terrorism.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


Ridiculous and absurd, to say the least. Full disclosure, I am a die hard Libertarian, or more specifically, a Constitutional Libertarian, or Paleo-Libertarian... but enough with the meaningless labels. The term Libertarian was coined because the term Liberal was hijacked by the early 20th century progressives, after "progressive" became a bad word. Before Progressivism reared it's ugly head, the term Liberal meant someone who stands for maximum liberty with the maximum absence of government coercion. In other words, if it doesn't infringe upon the individual liberty of someone else, then it should be left alone by government. For example, I find the fact that a woman would degrade herself to the point of trading her body for money to be deplorable, but if she wants to do that, and the person wants to give her money for it, then fine... it is two consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone but themselves, so more power to them. In short, the term Classical Liberal had to be coined in order to differentiate between the liberals of old, like Bastiat, Adam Smith, John Locke, etc.. and the Liberals of new.

The Constitution is not the Bible... so you are correct. As it was written, the word of God, or the Bible, is the supreme law of the land. The framers of the Constitution recognized this fact, and based the Constitution on this fact. In other words, the only word higher than the Constitution is the Bible, and the Constitution recognizes this by making the distinction between man made law and natural law. Liberty and rights derive from natural law, and privilage derives from man made law, or government.

The problem, or weakness, of the current Libertarian movemnet is a lack of understanding of all I have mentioned above. That is what makes certain issues or situations seem contradictory, or inconsistent. It is not the movemnet or ideology that is inconsistent, it is the people within the movement. With Libertarianism you are either all in for liberty, or you are not. There is no picking and choosing. True liberty means that some people will do and say things that you despise, but that is the price paid for true individual liberty absent of government coercion.
edit on 6-8-2012 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 



Oh and let’s not forget that he conveniently skipped out on voting against NDAA a bill that he is so supposedly passionately against because he was, “campaigning.


Either you blatantly lie, or you are confusing a house vote against a senate vote!!!! Which is it????

House Votes on NDAA



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


It's going to take me a while to get through all this nonsense opinion, that' you've cleverly attempted to disguise as fact..


Ron Paul and his followers would have you thinking that the Constitution is the Bible, and an individual mandate will be issued to all US citizens to only follow libertarian way of thinking. Because it’s the right one! After all, all of the founding fathers were libertarians. Reagan was a libertarian, Lincoln was a libertarian, FDR was a libertarian. Even Dennis Kucinich would be a great Vice President because he aligns with our mainstream views so much!


How is the Constitution not "the bible ? It is the single most important document ever created in reference to the United States Of America.


So even though libertarians would have you believe that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are based on libertarian philosophy it is a complete lie! They are in fact documents that promote building a government. Allowing the colonies which at the time which had different confusing governments to come together in order to build one huge FEDERAL government! It is the largest inconsistency in the libertarian doctrine and one of the biggest reasons why it can never be implemented nationwide without some dictator like rule.


That's a matter of opinion. The fact that you claim your interpretation of these documents are correct, and mine are "incorrect" only shows that you are also part of this problem, and are doing exactly what you accuse Libertarians of doing.


To say the constitution or the declaration of independence is libertarian is also ridiculous. It takes power away from the people and gives it to a centralized government! Another huge contradiction rooted inside libertarian doctrine.


This is a false statement. The Republic was a means to make sure that no one man had more power than any other. That your government, was elected by the people, for the people and that it could not force you to do things that you had not agreed to.

It provides MORE power to the individual and the people, not less.


Ron Paul is no different. You can’t take Ron Paul as a serious libertarian because he’s not. Otherwise he would be in the libertarian party working to make it more powerful, like Ross Perot did with independents or Gary Johnson with the Libertarians. Instead of hijacking my party, the GOP!


No, because libertarians would never make a "political" party. That's the whole point, not relying on a government to give you your hand outs and make decisions for you. Again, the JOB is, or has been hijacked for a VERY long time.

As a matter of fact the GOP were the MOST libertarian party of all time prior to Reagan.


Ron Paul is not a defender of your freedoms or the constitution. Ron Paul style Libertarians change the meaning of the Constitution to further their propaganda as proven above.


Please show me how this is true? Please show me how following the constitution, word for word, is somehow changing it and giving "propaganda".


Ron Paul claims that legalizing narcotics, prostitution, and neutrality on homosexual marriage is a Constitutional defense of individual liberty. Even though states have the right to vote on the morality of the issues?



Yes it is. Ron Paul means that the FEDERAL government, has NO right to get involved in these matters. He's right about it, it should be reserved for states. He's NEVER stated that states could not make whatever they wanted illegal.

He stated that they should have the right to do so, without interference from the Federal Government.


But Ron Paul supporters will continue to ignore these two whole pages of facts.


You are under the impression that your personal interpretation of the Constitution, Ron Paul's comments/remarks and his that of his followers are facts?

You are kidding right?

You have done EXACTLY what you claim Libertarians have done. Take your opinion, twist the actual historical facts to suit your agenda and then claim anybody else who doesn't agree as pushing propaganda.

You should probably look in the mirror and discover your own ideological bias and mis-representation, before you go about attacking others.

~Tenth



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by OptimusSubprime


As a libertarian, do you believe gay people do not exist, as the OP asserts?



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by METACOMET
 
What is this "gay people" thing of which you speak?




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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A.G.E.N.D.A.

Agent

Grunt

Endorsing

Nonsense

Determined

A-hole





:shk:



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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LOL. I saw the thread header, and I KNEW it was you, dude.

I don't even know where to begin except to say, ... Somehow you've managed to equate Anarchy with Libertarianism. And the rest seems to just be strawmen and allegations.

Wow.

Yes, some founding fathers disagreed with others. That's how it goes. There were also quite a few traitors in those days, those that worked to put America back under the thumb of the British bankers. Oh look, that's where we are today.

You brought up the newsletters again. Hmmm, yep those exist. That's a mark of inconsistency right there. Everybody has skeletons in the closet. Lest we get into Obama's or Rom's? Let's not do that, it would be just too lopsided.

NDAA? Yeah, voted on in his absence, at the oddest of times no less, a time when it wasn't slated to be voted on. Guess what, he's the guy that jumped in and created legislation to strike the NDAA down. democrats.rules.house.gov...

But, let's not make this about a guy you don't like. I can understand why you don't' like him, especially if he's diametrically opposed to the guy you like. That's love and war, always the same taking sides, a human trait. Let's get past that.

You are sick in the head if you think the GOP's actual views are congruous with Romney. The GOP was subverted a long time ago by a neo-conservatives, a group who say they believe in Republican values, yet vote the way lobbyists tell them to, time and time again.

Yet the political landscape is changing under the feet of the neo-cons. You can see this, can't you? What, you don't like it when the GOP returns to its roots? Libertarian-leaning Republicanism IS what the Liberty movement is about. It really isn't about what the GOP believes in, its how they vote that matters, and the legislation created. It used to be about how good you can fake it, and how long, to make it in to office and then do whatever you want. The people will not stand for that anymore. Folks that voted YEA on NDAA should serve jail time for treason.

Tell ya what, let's have a talk AFTER the convention, and see where we are.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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You think welfare is necessary? Why? You think the department of education is needed? Why do you think we meed all these government programs and agencies? If there was no welfare the people would either find a way to live or starve. Either way the problem would take care of itself. Drug laws? Why do we need drug laws? Users will kill themselves soon enough and again, problem solved. We went 140 years in this nation without drug laws and we did just fine. We need laws against prostitution? Why? I thought a woman had a right to choose what she does with her body? How can anyone be for legal abortion and against prostitution? That makes no logical sense. Libertarianism is merely the love of liberty and the lack of faith in government. Government can't solve our problems. It enhances out problems and makes them worse.

Before welfare we had churches. It is their job to care for the needy. Not uncle Sam. Now try to go to a church and ask for help. They look at you like you're crazy. I know, I have tried. They invest their tithes and keep the money. I have seen it. I worked for a church for a while. I saw the books. 11 million a year in income and no charity work other than a few thousand for the United Way. I asked them to help a woman who had MS and was bedridden and being cared for by her 85 year old mother. They scoffed at me. They would not even donate one of the 50 old computers they had in storage to poor people. It bothered me so much I quit going to church. But they do not have to help. The government does it for them.

Israel?!? Christians are not to help or support Israel until they repent from their atheism and turn to God. They have not and will not. They do not need our support to be evil. You should read your Bible more often.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 


well i fixed a mistake i made mixed up hamilton and madison because I wrote this from memory! Sorry if its not perfect!!!!! Jeez.

What a guy can't make a mistake anymore?



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by METACOMET

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime


As a libertarian, do you believe gay people do not exist, as the OP asserts?


Of course they exist, and the vast majority of them just want to live their lives in a peaceful and happy manner, just like anyone else. The thought of two men having sex is disgusting to me, however I believe that they have the right to pursue their happiness, just like I do, and their relationship does not infringe upon mine or anyone else's liberty, so more power to them. How's that for CONSISTENCY OP??



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by METACOMET
 


settle down I fixed the mistake.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by Praetorius
 


well i fixed a mistake i made mixed up hamilton and madison because I wrote this from memory! Sorry if its not perfect!!!!! Jeez.

What a guy can't make a mistake anymore?


Paul made a mistake but you don't forgive him for that, you hypocrite.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by fourthmeal
 


Paul has made many mistakes and I am not a politician. He is held to a much higher standard especially to his very misguided but loyal supporters!



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by fourthmeal
LOL. I saw the thread header, and I KNEW it was you, dude.


At least I am consistent.



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