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"The US cannot win a war against China"

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posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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personally i think war between us is coming the US- china, China has ramped up alot of accusations here with in the past 2 weeks, the USA has been sticking there chin out in the china sea. and in the gulf of aden. and face it with china's military power the longer we wait the more harder that the job is going to be. But i also believe that the USA already has a fleet of space tech or ships up and running and is waiting in the myst. i dont think we would be sticking our chin out this far if we was not ready. We have to let them strike first to see what they really have to make sure we use the correct counter. i think thats why we was hopeing so bad that iran would fire on us in the golf of Aden. to get a sample taste of what might be coming at lest from russia. As far as china being unbeatable on there ground i agree unless we start tossing tact nukes on them or if we have some other space weapon maybe. but i do think we the USA have the power to ground china, Russia has already clamed we (USA) was able to take control of aircraft flying in air from a virus with nobody on the aircraft besides russians between clames from russia and stuff like the tr-3b and prob other anti gravity ships. I think if we wait any longer it will be a harder job



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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If you think the US is going to win against a culture with more than 2000 years of martial tradition, you are gravely mistaking.


Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.
Sun Tzu



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Sablicious

Originally posted by TKDRL
Depends..... If anyone tries to invade us now? They would be defeated easily. Wait a few more years, maybe liberals will have won, and got rid of our individual right to have fire arms.

If you think the victor in a Sino-US war will be decided by how many inbred yokels riding in the back of their Confederate flag adorned pick-ups can tote firearms, then I think you better pre-purchase a burial plot right next to Charlton Heston's. ...because you'll surely be availing it.


Haven't got past the first page of this thread yet, but I'd just like to hand out the 'best ATS post ever' award to this guy! Comedy gold!!



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by manbitesdog

The US will be out of fresh water soon. It is just a matter of time before it tries to buy its way into Canada, which has the largest fresh water reserves in the world. The question is: will the Canadians allow that?

We dont have to.

Thanks to NAFTA, they can buy their way into Canadian resources and ship them south all they want. We let them when we signed the papers years ago.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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Heya ,

Oke lets do the math , i believe china houses about 1.2 blijon chinese , lets say a small amount is able to perform combat , maybe 10 % ( i believe more but lets go from this 10 % ) you still would have a heck a lot of soldiers .



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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China's biggest threat is from within. As their economy slows, it exposes that China's economy is heavily reliant on export and building infrastructure in the region of 20 odd empty cities every year and shoddy railway lines. The only way China will become this all singing and dancing superpower, exactly how America has been for several decades, or certainly it was during much of the 20th century, is by increasing domestic consumption of products and services, this isn't happeneing. Much like India, or perhaps a slightly less concentrated version of India, the average Chinese person does not see the benefits of China's rapid rise from a country plagued by the flaws of Communism, to a nation introducing a more western economic model albeit with Communist governing. China has seen rapid growth in the shortest amount of time that I've ever known. However, as stated they have yet to drop the Communist way, this is why the average Chinese person is still poor and now, as they realise China's rise has not been met with the same standard of living as what westerners enjoyed as their countries prospered, they are becoming ever more hostile to their own government as oppossed to anyone else.

To me, China is a ticking time bomb. The rapid growth has left behind the countless poor workers as still poor workers and they're not happy, especially as this rapid rise has meant greater working hours. Also don't forget, its not like America and Europe, poverty in China is very much as true to the real sense of poverty as it ever was, the underclass in China that would be the working class has not gained from Chinese prosperity rather have just starved from it.

So on to the question of China against America in military conflict.

America has the greatest military in the world, I honestly believe with the knowledge that I have that no other country could defeat America, it would take a combined effort to defeat America. However, I have no doubt that if America was on the verge of defeat, in a Germany 1945 scenerio, I don't think that Obama or any American president would hesitate in using Nuclear weapons.

As for a conflict on mainland China, China is vast, however its military is spread thin because it is so vast. China itself relies heavily on shipping lanes, these could easily be cut off in open conflict. China's army, although the romantics on here would say China has centuries of wisdom and warfare knowledge, actually they are pretty inexperienced. The only allies that China has are Pakistan and North Korea, compare that to the US list of allies and scope of influence.

I can't see China ever becoming like America is, I think the economic slump will hit them before they truly have a chance of even coming close to American military capability. Then China will be more concerned with domestic matters than branching out as they have been and even should they strike out to rally their own country to an external threat, to me this would be a desperate attempt and against America would not bode well. I think America would smash them to pieces. China does not have the experience in globalisation that America, although in ruthless fashion, have mastered to perfection. America's influence stretches around the globe, they have a military pressence everywhere, a cultural pressence in the majority of places and I doubt that there is one country on the planet safe from American "investment" and most of all they know how to weaken a nation long before they need to move in the military.

America is the superpower that rules the world, whether the currency is in decline or not, more Americans are on food stamps, freedoms being eroded etc etc it will be a very long time before they cease to be the superpower that rules this planet.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by TheGreazel
Heya ,

Oke lets do the math , i believe china houses about 1.2 blijon chinese , lets say a small amount is able to perform combat , maybe 10 % ( i believe more but lets go from this 10 % ) you still would have a heck a lot of soldiers .


China.
Population: 1.35 billion
Active military: 2.25 million (ranked #1)
Reservists: 1.2 million reservists
Military capable: 315 million (male); 300 million (female)


Originally posted by Gorman91
It is very easy to beat an organized military. It takes decades, if not centuries, to fight farmers and sand people.



America vs China is no different than Germany vs Russia in WW2. Only China does not have a harsh winter. China would fall.....but that does not mean America could win. Think about that.

If it were that easy, the Wehrmarcht would not have sauntered through Europe ...and nigh the world, had it not been for a megalomaniacal dictator with a bent for extermination, his delusions of grandeur re. his übermensch storm troopers ability to withstand -40'c temperatures and his apparent lack of knowledge of Napoleonic history.

Sure, insurgency is difficult to tackle. But, in reality, this is only true because the world does not accept wholesale carpet bombing of nations back into the Stone Age; which is what is required to expunge insurgent groups outright. Moreover, insurgency needs 'fuel'. This fuel almost always comes in the form of brainwashing in a doctrine of one fictitious deity or the other--something Chinese culture lacks to the extent and in the form that the Middle East does in spades.


Originally posted by Directpowerhouse
if we were to invade mainland chine would involve weeks if not months of carpet bombing, the army doesn't just run on the bitch screaming and shooting guns in the air.

Indeed.

Americans only do that in schools, cinemas and places of religious worship!



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by mikeone718
 



Mike sorry to be the barer of bad news but china has been waring with other countries since before america was even born!
Not to mention every army trains using the art of war !

China are well versed in combat !




Silly me to have assumed that horse and sword tactics wouldn't fare well against the us military.

Good call!



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by Sablicious
 


Although not easy, the U.S. could win a war against China. Except for Burma and North Korea, China would have no allies in Asia who would help them. On the other hand, India, the ANZUS countries, Japan, S. Korea, and Thailand would most likely assist us. Except for a handful of exceptions, the Chinese military is woefully inneficent and less advanced than the U.S. and its allies. Not to mention that the countries I have mentioned together with the U.S. outnumber china thus canceling out China's only advantage, i.e. numbers. They only hold 8 percent of america's debt, while america holds 43 percent of its own debt. China's economy is mostly dependent on selling us and our allies cheap crap, plus they have had no real experience operating a field army since the Korean War, let alone one with 200 million troops (which they don't have the ability to arm). In all likelyhood the war would go nuclear, which would be bad for everyone.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by fireyaguns
 


manpower is all fine if your just use rifles and shoot at one another.
but in todays world it's air power and naval power, which china doesn't have.
you can have all the men in the world, but with limited air and sea capabilities.
you are at a disadvantage for attack or defense.

Global Fire Power.Com

U.S. total aircraft 18232
china total aircraft 5176

U.S. Total naval ships 2384
china Total naval ships 972

and the air craft and ships they do have are mostly antiquated. they have very few modern air craft or ships
and if your using old junk and don't have enough of it, you just don't stand a chance..



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by SecretFace
 


I think that if we were smart and put money back into all those programs canceled in the last five to six years, then by the mid 2020's, when china's economy starts having a "lost decade" similar to japan, we could be even farther ahead of china/russia then we are now. Plus, if we use the CIA to overthrow pro China/Russia regimes in Asia, the Mid. East, Africa, and Latin America, we could then easily contain china and make a war against the U.S. impossible.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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A war with China is VERY unlikely, esspecially on their own home front.

First of all, we are financial allies and both sides know that it would result in Mutual Assured Destruction.

Secondly, we may have lost Vietnam, we did mean over both Japan AND Korea, we could've annihilated both countries with conventional weapons....but we decided on the Korean Armstice to PREVENT more death and destruction on both sides.

Japan would've waged for another 5 years if we didn't nuke it.

your thread may as well been called "China cannot win a war against the US" since behind every blade of grass is a gun in the US.

Like is aid, it would result in MAD.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Antonio1
reply to post by SecretFace
 


I think that if we were smart and put money back into all those programs canceled in the last five to six years, then by the mid 2020's, when china's economy starts having a "lost decade" similar to japan, we could be even farther ahead of china/russia then we are now. Plus, if we use the CIA to overthrow pro China/Russia regimes in Asia, the Mid. East, Africa, and Latin America, we could then easily contain china and make a war against the U.S. impossible.


exactly, better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
then the better and more advanced our equipment, the better the out come.
no matter how many they have, if you can kill twenty to one. it won't take long to end a war.
maybe in the case of china it would have to be a thousand to one



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by kyviecaldges
He is black and that would make you a racist.

No.

Where I'm from, a person's skin colour does not designate their race in the very same way as one's criticism of someone who may be of a 'minority group' in a certain society does not make one racist. Where I'm from, racism has nothing to do with words and everything to do with actions.

You got it! I ain't a Yan'kee!



Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty

That's not exactly spot on information.
Need I remind you of the Kowloon incident?
It seems Americas involvement or lack thereof still strikes a chord in the hearts of the Chinese.

I think The Americans marching on and effectively sacking The Forbidden City might have cut a tad deeper than that comparatively frivolous act of pillaging. And, of course, let us not forget the opium...



Originally posted by Gorman91
the economic disaster China would face from a war with the US would be unimaginable. The sheer volume of people out of work would make China unable to find any sort of coherent means to fight, for it would be fighting 100,000,000 revolutionaries out of a job

War make jobs.

In fact, war is oftentimes instigated to mask pending or even current economic hardship. See: 1930s economically depressed German (still smarting from WWI), 9/11 and its ensuing campaigns of 'mass distraction' by the US (still smarting from the first Gulf campaign)...



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ViktorHaze
 


Well we did beat them. Iraq is submitted and Afghanistan close to it.

Believe it or not but it actually takes longer to fight wars in small farmer countries than it does in organized combat. This is a well documented historic fact. It's why the Soviets could not take down Afghanistan, the Chinese still have problems suppressing some areas, and the Germans had difficulty fighting the insurgencies they were facing.


Farmers = insurgency. Soldiers = tombs.


This is why the founders of the US were interested in a militia-only army. Because such a system would not allow foreign intervention and would make it impossible to invade America. China actually has had a similar strategy for centuries and its done them well.


It is very easy to beat an organized military. It takes decades, if not centuries, to fight farmers and sand people.



America vs China is no different than Germany vs Russia in WW2. Only China does not have a harsh winter. China would fall.....but that does not mean America could win. Think about that.
edit on 6-8-2012 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)


Iraq and Afghanistan were defenseless nations! You are very deluded here!



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by MrStyx
They have a large sub army but with US anti sub tech

Yes!

We will win using 'technology'!



Problem is, the US ain't that great at keeping secrets:
Lockheed-Martin hacked
The Pentagon hacked
Stealth helo expo
"Top secret" drone nabbed (almost declared war over this one!)

And let's not forget that F-117 the Mujahideen captured and graciously handed over to the Chinese back in the Bosnian War. (*You won't find this last one using Google unless you speak the melodic, Cyrillic refrain known as Srpski!)

The US are quite ruthless at punishing transgressors after the horse has bolted (ask Mr Assange; see: Osama (pbuh)). But, sadly / comically (/tragically?) aren't as adept at their much-vaunted 'intelligence' side of the ledger, as they'd like us to believe.

Point: The technological gap closes a lot faster nowadays than it did when they could but pilfer the Enigma Machine to decrypt it. Couple that with the irrefutable fact that the very unsubstitutable constituent the bulk of this purported 'technological superiority' is dependant upon (i.e., Rear Earth Elements) is corralled by the very country we're playing war games with here, and all of a sudden that James Bourne 007 hubris starts to look distinctly rice paper -thin.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Sablicious

Originally posted by MrStyx
They have a large sub army but with US anti sub tech

Yes!

We will win using 'technology'!



Problem is, the US ain't that great at keeping secrets:
Lockheed-Martin hacked
The Pentagon hacked
Stealth helo expo
"Top secret" drone nabbed (almost declared war over this one!)

And let's not forget that F-117 the Mujahideen captured and graciously handed over to the Chinese back in the Bosnian War. (*You won't find this last one using Google unless you speak the melodic, Cyrillic refrain known as Srpski!)

The US are quite ruthless at punishing transgressors after the horse has bolted (ask Mr Assange; see: Osama (pbuh)). But, sadly / comically (/tragically?) aren't as adept at their much-vaunted 'intelligence' side of the ledger, as they'd like us to believe.

Point: The technological gap closes a lot faster nowadays than it did when they could but pilfer the Enigma Machine to decrypt it. Couple that with the irrefutable fact that the very unsubstitutable constituent the bulk of this purported 'technological superiority' is dependant upon (i.e., Rear Earth Elements) is corralled by the very country we're playing war games with here, and all of a sudden that James Bourne 007 hubris starts to look distinctly rice paper -thin.


It is not that big of a gap anyhow! The Chinese UFO and Norway spirals clearly show China and Russia share tech and that both have plasma engines. The US is still ten years out on this!
edit on 7-8-2012 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by ViktorHaze
America vs China is no different than Germany vs Russia in WW2.

There's only one response that a statement like this can elicit ...and that's:















posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by TheLegend
 


The US pays $500 for a simple wood handled claw hammer! Our spending does not equate to military might! You can count on the tech gap closing over night as well!






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