The Miccinelli Documents - Secret Jesuit Manuscripts

I was amazed when I typed “Miccinelli documents” on the search engine and nothing came up. (well…, maybe I shouldn’t).



If that is the case, let me share with you the following information. I selected some parts of the text that will call your attention for sure. It's unusual to find such a good information about this topic in english, so take your time to read and enjoy.

The so-called Miccinelli documents are two secret Jesuit manuscripts: Exsul Immeritus Blas Valera Populo Suo [The unjustly banished Blas Valera to his people], (here referred as EI) and Historia et Rudimenta Linguae Piruanorum [History and elements of the Peruvian language], (here referred as HR). The document EI, dated Alcalà de Henares (Spain) May 10th, 1618, was written and signed by Blas Valera, a Jesuit scholar which was known prior to the discovery of the documents because his works are cited as erudite sources in the chronicle written by Garcilaso de la Vega. The document HR is instead a collection of writings, composed in Peru between 1600 and 1638 by the Italian Jesuits Johan Antonius Cumis and Johan Anellus Oliva (the second one was already known as the writer of a chronicle, which did not obtain the imprimatur by the Company).

The two documents were presented to scholars between 1996 and 2001 and they have been recently made available to scholars with an exhaustive publication1; it is worth noticing that their authenticity has been proved beyond any possible doubt.

In this kind of calendar, all the celestial events as well as
the cosmic time, the pacha, had (and should have in Paititi) to be projected on the "anthropized"
and “chequered” earth, Pachamama, which in turn is - through the yupana - transformed in a sort of
geo-shaman table.5 With this procedure the shaman-astronomer (amauta) succeeds to predict - and
therefore to control - the celestial cycles

2) The Pleiades
The symbol named Collcacapac is a rectangle containing a shining star with eight jags, a sort of
generic picture for “star” which occurs also in the Poma de Ayala’s chronicle, where it is used for
Venus. In any case there is no doubt that the asterism named collca coincides with the Pleiades.

arxiv.org...

brown.academia.edu... ry_2000

Uhm... what?

Originally posted by TechUnique
Uhm... what?

care to explain your post?

who?
what?
when?
where?
how?
and why?

Originally posted by gaurdian2012
who?
what?
when?
where?
how?
and why?

People seems to be shocked by the info presented.

Thanks Trueman, I have heard of these, but honestly wasn't sure what they were all about. I'll give them a run through. I'm always interested in what the Jesuits were/are up to. They are the Vatican's own CIA, NSA, SS, and FBI, all rolled into one.

Originally posted by Klassified
Thanks Trueman, I have heard of these, but honestly wasn't sure what they were all about. I'll give them a run through. I'm always interested in what the Jesuits were/are up to. They are the Vatican's own CIA, NSA, SS, and FBI, all rolled into one.

My pleasure, very glad to see you in one of my threads.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by gaurdian2012
who?
what?
when?
where?
how?
and why?

People seems to be shocked by the info presented.

I don't think shock is the word you're looking for. Those are the precepts of good journalism. You need to give us some context and some comprehensible information. As you yourself note, this information is hard to come by; so how about being a little forthcoming with where exactly you're aiming with this....

I would have to agree with the confused posts in this thread... I'm not exactly sure what your angle is with this thread.

After a quick read through... it seems that the paper (first link) is dealing with the interpretation of a "Quipu", a type of Incan (or Jesuit?) calendar made up of corded knots and cartouches, based on a twelve month cycle.

The second article (link) seems to be discussing the basis for the first article, along with a conspiracy about Jesuits plotting in defense of the Incas against the Spanish invaders because they were disgusted with the natives treatment. Also it seems to be saying that the Nueva Coronica was written by a little known Jesuit rather than a revered Indian, as was previously believed. There may be something about the author of these documents being the same Jesuit... there also seems to be stuff about controlling the celestial cycles, and a warning to those that don't follow the writings, and even a mention of Italian Post-Modernism... quite confusing without more context.

???

Sorry if this isn't accurate as I only skimmed the articles, and didn't understand much of what was being said, as it is not an area I am familiar with, and the language is a bit confusing without better context.

Do I have this vaguely right?... and could you clarify a bit in terms that a layman could understand, and contextualise this for us?

Cheers

reply to post by puzzlesphere

Sorry if this isn't accurate as I only skimmed the articles, and didn't understand much of what was being said, as it is not an area I am familiar with, and the language is a bit confusing without better context.

That's the problem. I know the info offered is not easy to understand unless you have some knowledge of Incas and pre-columbian cultures, besides Andean cosmogony. Some astronomy is also envolved since it talks about a calendar.

reply to post by Ex_CT2


Well, as I said in the initial post. Take your time to read it. I know it's confusing if you are not familiar with the topic.

reply to post by Trueman

I rarely, if ever, suggest to an OP what they should have done. But may I suggest this would have gone better had you left out your second source?

That source is not written in technical language, and is fairly easy to follow. And while it does not conclusively, 100%, debunk the first document, it raises many, many questions and objections to the document's veracity. After looking through both sources you've provided, by initial impression is "Probable hoax with more invstigation advised."

reply to post by Trueman


I have to go with the other confused posters here, your opening post does not make much sense, the snippets you posted give no real clue to whatever your post is about, you need to explain to people, at least a little to get them interested. I love history, its my biggest interest, but even I read this and shrugged a little because there is no indication of what you are trying to say with your post.

This is a conspiracy website, so where is the conspiracy in this? Where is the mystery, have I read the articles? No I haven't, why? Because your post did not give me any reason to, the snippets don't relate to anything except some obscure names with very badly written text in.

I don#t mean to be disparaging or negative towards your post, as I said I love history, but you need to at least put a synopsis of what your post is trying to infer if you want to catch peoples attention

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by Ex_CT2

 

Well, as I said in the initial post. Take your time to read it. I know it's confusing if you are not familiar with the topic.

edit on 6-8-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)

OK. I can appreciate that.

However, I'm keenly interested . . . with limited time . . .

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE . . . give us

YOUR SUMMARY in 3-7 paragraphs . . . the points that you are convinced are most useful and important for our consideration in our daily lives at this moment in history . . . dealing with globalist forces etc.

Otherwise, your post, thread becomes a minor distraction of questionable value amidst a huge mass of reading and information at a crucial point in a dramatic era . . . and therefore easily and NECESSARILY lost in the shuffle by falling off the priority list . . . perhaps largely because there's nothing comprehensible so far, to sink our intellectual teeth into profitably.

. . . as far as I can tell.

Trueman, when you make a post, please do it in such a manner that everyone can understand what you are trying to present. Not everyone is aware or knows about Pre-Columbian cultures or Andean cosmology like a few are.

That's the problem. I know the info offered is not easy to understand unless you have some knowledge of Incas and pre-Columbian cultures, besides Andean cosmogony. Some astronomy is also involved since it talks about a calendar.

You yourself has stated that it is the problem. well, you should have cleared that problem in the OP itself by breaking your post into easily understandable sections.

All Right. Those who are interested can read about it in the links provided by you.
But, all those who read might not take the doucments are face value and would of course do a bit of research on it.

What is the premise of your post?
There are two secret Jesuit manuscripts that shows that the Jesuits were trying to protect or save the natives from the atrocities of the conquistadors.

Whos the author of the Manuscripts?
.
Blas Valera

Blas Valera was born in Levanto, Chachapoyas, Peru, in 1545.[1] Valera is considered to be the son of Luis Valera, one of the men who accompanied Pizarro in the conquest of the Inca Empire. He established himself in this city since its foundation. The mother of this outstanding Chachapoyano writer was Francisca Pérez, a native who had taken this name after being baptized. The circumstance that he was born in 1545, less than 20 years after the fall of the Inca Empire, allowed him to meet many of its prominent men and also old amautas, that transmitted and entrusted him the events that he later narrated in his works.

What is the authenticity of the documents?
Actually its controversial.

The revelation of the "Naples documents", has led to controversial disputes among scholars as to how these documents should be evaluated. Many Andeanists consider the manuscript as forgeries fabricated by the owner Clara Miccinelli and her friend Carlo Animato and argue that the content of these documents cannot be taken literal. Likewise, Francesa Cantú, from the Universitá di Roma, and Maurizio Gnerre, from the Instituto Universitario Orientale, also found documents in public archives in Italy that connect with aspects of the story found in the Naples documents. Likewise, these two scholars have also been accused of manufacturing false documentation. Moreover, many Peruvians argue that the Naples documents were forged by Jesuit followers of Valera after his death in order to express political opinions, which would otherwise be censured by Society. Those pertaining to this chain of thought, also argue that Valera did not write Nueva Coronica y Buen Gobierno. Lastly, there are those who believe that the Naples documents are authentic and true regarding his fake death and life. In addition, the discovery of the Naples documents not only raises questions with regards to Valera's life, but also raises assumptions that the Incas had a secret, phonetic writing system and that the writings in Nueva Coronica y Buen Gobierno are evidence of indigenous resistance to Spanish domination. Valera's discrete crimes show an attachment to his people, his radical condemnation of the Spanish conquest, and his belief that the Incas understood the key Christian truths. The Naples Documents also talk about Quipu writing, which is supposed to be a phonetic form of language that supposedly was used by the Incas, if this is true, many of the secrets and ambiguities from the colonial Andes would be solved.

Fine. Up to this point, the whole matter was about Two Secret Jesuit Documents. Quite valid, for discussion,
From this point, the Op turns fringe.

The 1st link provided is a pdf file toa paper presented by Laura Laurencich Minelli of Department of Palaeography and Medieval Studies, University of Bologna(not Clara Miccinelli as stated in Jeremy Mumford's paper in the second link) & Giulio Magli of Department of Mathematics at the Polytechnic of Milan.
I am not an expert on decoding a quipu. It is damn hard even for specialists and very few can do the feat.
I, personally, find it hard to believe that these two could easily decode the quipu.
For there was no actual quipu for them to decode, but the description/ images of a quipu on the documents by Blas valera.

That leads to a fact that , what is the peer review status of this paper submitted by Minelli & Magli?
Can Trueman provide any information on these?

Contd...

Contd.

From the research paper by Minelli & Magli

is: hatunpunchau [Midsummer, December solstice], - a yellow square [the ticcisimi inti= sun] knotted with the bow [the ticcisimi tuta= night] which is on the same level as the sun, the explication is: pituçuni [equinoxes], - a rectangle 1/3 white and 2/3 grey [the ticcisimi yanpintuy =eclipse of the moon], the explication is: yanpintuy [black sheet= eclipse of moon], - a rectangle 2/3 grey and 1/3 yellow, the explication is: yntihuañuy [eclipse of sun], - a rectangle containing a shining star with eight jags, the explication is: Collcacapac [the Pleiades]

I would like to know on what authority has it been stated that Collcacapac is the Pleides itself?
Any translations? Any pre-Columbian Astronomy links? Any Research papers?
Could Trueman provide any information?

Originally posted by coredrill
Trueman, when you make a post, please do it in such a manner that everyone can understand what you are trying to present. Not everyone is aware or knows about Pre-Columbian cultures or Andean cosmology like a few are.

Sorry I'm late for the party. Been busy.

Yeah, about the confusing info we got here. That's pretty much all I got, I understand there are so many terms you never heard about and it can be anoying when you read something like this, sorry for that. In this one, I just shared the info without judging it, depends of you to believe it or not.

Honestly, in general I don't consider my threads about pre-columbian and Incas cultures easy to digest. If you check other threads I did about this topics, you'll notice I hardly get more than 10 or 20 flags. So, ....story of my life in ATS.

Get into further explanations will take so much time that I don't have, knowing about all this take years and passion.

One of the things you need to understand andean cosmogony is a basic knowledge of Runa Simi / Quechua, aymara and similars, not easy.... I know.

All I can say is thank you for participating, but as I explained my threads are probably directed to a limited group of ATSer.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by coredrill
Trueman, when you make a post, please do it in such a manner that everyone can understand what you are trying to present. Not everyone is aware or knows about Pre-Columbian cultures or Andean cosmology like a few are.

Honestly, in general I don't consider my threads about pre-columbian and Incas cultures easy to digest. If you check other threads I did about this topics, you'll notice I hardly get more than 10 or 20 flags. So, ....story of my life in ATS.

Get into further explanations will take so much time that I don't have, knowing about all this take years and passion.

.

Sorry but that's simply a VERY INADEQUATE rationalization for schlocky posting, to me.

You PRESUMABLY ARE ABLE

to in 3-7 paragraphs describe your priority conclusions from what you've posted and read in terms of the most important issues, themes, predictions or whatever that might relate to our current era and world, our daily lives in whatever sense or way.

It doesn't matter if such paragraphs would be total guesses or conjectures or whatever on your part. They would STILL BE FAR BETTER than a mishmash of mysterious foggy code-worded documents about a world and a reality long ago and far away for most folks on the planet.

DOING LESS, than the 3-7 paragraphs, to me, is not very responsible even to your own time and effort or your own goals. Without such paragraphs, it's a bit like farting at the buffet line at an elite party and being shocked that folks are not applauding the aroma.

imho.
.

reply to post by BO XIAN

, it's a bit like farting at the buffet line at an elite party and being shocked that folks are not applauding the aroma.

Hahaha!...Sounds like something I would do if younger.

I just shared what I found, never said that I believed or not, so it's up to you to read it, understand it and believe it.

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

, it's a bit like farting at the buffet line at an elite party and being shocked that folks are not applauding the aroma.

Hahaha!...Sounds like something I would do if younger.

I just shared what I found, never said that I believed or not, so it's up to you to read it, understand it and believe it.

Somehow, I think some of us are not communicating very effectively with you.

WITHOUT AT LEAST A SUMMARY OF YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS, INFERENCES AND PERSPECTIVES on the documents you posted,

THERE IS FAR TOO MUCH NOISE, CHAFF, BLATHER, TROUBLESOME LANGUAGE AND JUST AN UNFRUITFUL MASS OF WORDS

FOR MOST OF US

to bother AT ALL with.

Sooooooooooo, IF you want ALMOST ANYONE

to read more than a few lines or a few paragraphs of that mess,

THEN

you'll summarize it or otherwise make some distilled sense out of it.

IF you were just posting as a sort of doodle effort on the keyboard with absolutely

NO INTEREST in anyone reading or learning anything about what you're interested in,

THEN YOU HAVE DONE A MASTERFUL JOB

of mostly insuring that virtually NO ONE will BOTHER with the blather in the documents you posted.

Congrats on helping make sure that your thread is a functionally useless and futile waste of screen and text in terms of educating others at all about your topic.