Arizona pastor jailed for home bible study

I just want to note, in all fairness here.... I'd been in a thread last year on this and had NO problem getting the material for how this started and the history of his war with the neighborhood.

Today...It took 5 pages of google results to get one result that wasn't all that helpful..and then date restricted search and STILL 2 more pages of the Fox style reporting on this. OH WOW how the media flooded the net with a very specific viewpoint on this story and this is one of the most blatant cases of it that I've noticed.

reply to post by NAMTERCES


I'm the oldest of eight, the first four of us are sixteen months apart, the three youngest eleven months apart. The Zodeaux house was that house where friends preferred to gather. My friends, my two brothers friends, and my five sisters friends. Imagine all the laughing and chatter that generated. But, I suppose since little of it had to do with church worship this was what excused all that chatter and laughing. Heaven forbid we worshiped in our own home while friends were over.

Wait...we kind of did. We certainly prayed before and after every meal regardless of who was over, and everyone who was over would bow their heads and pray with us...its a wonder my Mother managed to escape heavy fines and having the household shut down for zoning violations. Hell, ain't no Amendment in the Constitution declaring large families and friends a right...unless you count that pesky and bizarre Ninth Amendment, but who even acknowledges that Amendment these days?

Being born and raised Catholic, I'm beginning to experience massive amounts of guilt at the thought the Zodeaux family were in violation of ordinances.

We can just chalk this up to a case where Satan figured out he can use the legal system to further his agenda. Salman's tax exemption claim may have put him in the city's targetting sights but there was a day and age this wouldn't have even mattered. If churches have to obtain business licenses just to remain open, that's just wrong. I guess this is one case where you give Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Since each news article leaves out information and sways the viewer one way or the other, I would not believe that he is creating a church. Is he not the pastor of a church, which means he is expecting to have to help and deal with many people and work overtime in his home. Or do you think they're tipping him?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Did your family build a building where all you young people could hang out? Was this building full of code violations? Was the building because of violations a health risk?

I;ll use my father as an example. He is an avid duplicate bridge player, takes off to mexico often and has won many awards. He's always been working on his own system. He instructs various partners, and likes to teach his system. Now if he were to put in a bigger parking lot, and create a game room for the bridge gatherings, do you think he is running a business? Should he be allowed to do this in his own home with his own associates and friends?

reply to post by LIGHTvsDARK

Originally posted by LIGHTvsDARK
I have read about this when it happened BH. I have read ALL the pertinent court papers.

Really?

YES, he has used his home as a tax write off because he holds church services. So what!? I have firiends over all the time, but MY house is not built as a commercial building.

You know all about it, huh? I kind of doubt it, as you still think this is happening in his house... It's not about his HOUSE. It's about a "church" building he built on his property... I keep telling you to read, but I guess you know it all. : D

you have NO CLUE what the hell you are talking about.

You have said that three times now... And yet...

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


You EVIL religious dude, YOUR family is guilty of zoning laws. Sit tight and the gestapo will be there shortly to issue a fine!

I'd love to see more of this... the tiny article barely shares any information and it's hard to tell what really happened and why the man is in jail.

However, if this is exactly as is reported it is wrong and disturbing.

You may already know that I am not a supporter of organized religion in any way, but I believe everyone should be able to do whatever they please, as long as it doesn't harm another being. I don't see how praying together and studying the Bible harms anyone if done privately in one's home.

What the hell is going on?

Originally posted by LIGHTvsDARK
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Imagine being a construction expert, learning all the NEW LAWS created by a healthcare law? This is what is happening in the US, the unintended and intended consequences is making things untenable. WTF and OMG.

That's why people who have past dealings with the government don't want them within 10 miles of our healthcare. They can't do anything swiftly or correctly... other than make mistakes.

Originally posted by LIGHTvsDARK
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

You EVIL religious dude, YOUR family is guilty of zoning laws. Sit tight and the gestapo will be there shortly to issue a fine!

Yep, I hope for your sake mister your papers are in order.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The fact that this started in 2007, before the building was even built, led me to think that this just might be something that FOX is sensationalizing now for political purpose. When you google, just use the man's name, Michael Salman, and you'll get results on page one.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yes, you know all about zoning laws don't you? He built a church building on HIS property so that he could hold services there. THAT was his first code violation. Next, he did NOT get a permit from the government to build said building, THAT was code violation number two. Yes, I have read about this situation. Attempting to act like an expert, is a fallacious argument, of course that is what YOU do all the time.

By the way, does YOUR house have a door that opens inwards? Better not have more than 8 people come over, otherwise I might have to come out and sight you for non compliance.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Fact Sheet Regarding the Michael Salman Case

The Michael Salman court case is about building safety. Building and safety codes are in-place to protect the safety and welfare of all of our residents. Some of the relevant facts in this case include:

A house of worship is allowed in any zoning district in the City of Phoenix
The case is about the building that is used for regular assembly does not meet construction and fire code requirements for assembly
All houses of worship in the City of Phoenix must conform to the same codes

Looks like this is another case of someone disobeying city codes, then crying "religious persecution".

Watch out for FOX news... There's an agenda there.

It aint like he was charging. When you have a houseparty does your home have to conform to the same safety standards as a movie theatre or a club?

Originally posted by Kharron
I'd love to see more of this...

Here's the Fact Sheet from the city of Phoenix.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Did your family build a building where all you young people could hang out? Was this building full of code violations? Was the building because of violations a health risk?

Myself, and my two brothers, and the eldest girl, all built a club-house in our backyard. The clubhouse wasn't built to code. We weren't even aware we had any obligation to build that club-house under any specifications other than our own. I am not talking about a blanket fort, I mean we took lumber, hammer and nails and built a clubhouse.

You cannot even imagine the profound guilt I am experiencing now, and especially after seeing Salman is in jail for essentially the same thing...there but for the Grace of God go I.

reply to post by Unity_99

I'm not sure what he was using his property FOR even matters. It wouldn't matter one bit to me. This wasn't a casual Bible study and it sure wasn't something to compare to a Poker night. If you look at the link I stuck up there, an image of the front of his house when he was actually laying out plans for the full blown church LOOKS like a Church. The guy is really into this...and that's fine.

To each their own and it's a free nation. ....right until his rights stomp over the top of mine. Now if I'm a neighbor and someone opens a casual church, little poker hall, tutor center, DAYCARE or anything else...Anything else at all, in my residential neighborhood, then he's stomped my right as a homeowner.

Now, this isn't really debatable about the Church thing. As with some other recent topics, terms are defined by the person in the story. Here is the Official property record listing his residential home....by his terms...in 2007:

Harvest Fellowship Church - Corp Record - 2007

and to confirm for everyone, here is the overhead of that address. The parking is a cute touch for neighbor complaints about parking all over the street, but ...it didn't leave them overly amused by follow-on stories and interviews..either.

Michael Salman Church Location

And what it looked like before property changes and his additions were made:




I wish I could claim credit for all this, but some came from someone who put a lot more than the hour or so I have into this:

A site with tons of background and all link/cite supported, per item

I found his criminal and civil history which carries right into 2011, to be quite interesting too. It's always fascinating when people who make themselves symbols have backgrounds to make you wonder why they wouldn't want to be the last one held to public scrutiny?

I'm not religious so can someone who is explain what the difference between 'bible study' and 'worship' are? This guy, essentially, built a church on his property and had 80 people show up twice a week. If I were his neighbor that would bug the hell out of me and I would complain too.

7601 N 31st Ave, Phoenix, AZ is the address of this place.

Here is a fact sheet covering this case:

The Michael Salman court case is about building safety. Building and safety codes are in-place to protect the safety and welfare of all of our residents. Some of the relevant facts in this case include:
A house of worship is allowed in any zoning district in the City of Phoenix
The case is about the building that is used for regular assembly does not meet construction and fire code requirements for assembly
All houses of worship in the City of Phoenix must conform to the same codes

Mr. Salman had regular gatherings of up to 80 people. He held services twice a week and collected a tithe at the services. The building that he held services in had a dais and chairs were aligned in a pew formation. He held himself out as a being a church through the media (Harvest Christian Church) and claimed a church status for tax exemption purposes on his property.

Due to the regular, reoccurring high vehicular traffic in this quiet residential neighborhood, neighbors repeatedly complained about the public assembly occurring on his property. Because of the multiple, reoccurring complaints, the City investigated the activity and discovered numerous building code violations primarily related to fire safety standards.

continues here:
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